ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[Please Explain]

"rear power car unidentified" I'm guessing...?

43168 was on other end!

 

[jingsmonty]

A question on HST driver training- is it all done on real trains or is some of it done in a simulator? Do they use the Turbostar or 334 sims during traction training for those classes? What sims have ScotRail actually got?

It's all done on 'live' trains (apart from the classroom stuff) - Scotrail don't have an HST simulator, only 334s & 170s at the sim

 

[jimm]

That makes sense, but Scotrail not fitting it doesn't...

Unless someone did their sums and got worried about recovering the costs.

For all that we are told about long leases for the HSTs, given the delays in getting refurbished sets into traffic I can see shiny new express trains being on offer as part of bids in the next franchise round - and if Abellio miss their performance targets, that process would be starting at some point in 2021.

 

[Siemens Trains]

Given that the 05:48 weekday departure from Aberdeen to Edinburgh now makes an 08:02 call at Dalmeny, does that exclude this journey from being operated by a High Speed Train (HST)? Or can HSTs use Dalmeny for passenger uplift and set down routinely, similar to other loco-hauled services? I've seen an HST occupying the nearby sidings occasionally but none using the actual station yet.

 

[haggishunter]

On the LNER Highland Chieftain going South and we passed a late running ScotRail 'classic' HST at Pitlochary. It had hit a tree North of Dunkeld, unfortunately that is now across the line and the HC is stuck just North of Dunkeld.

 

[route101]

Given that the 05:48 weekday departure from Aberdeen to Edinburgh now makes an 08:02 call at Dalmeny, does that exclude this journey from being operated by a High Speed Train (HST)? Or can HSTs use Dalmeny for passenger uplift and set down routinely, similar to other loco-hauled services? I've seen an HST occupying the nearby sidings occasionally but none using the actual station yet.

Is there HST stopboards at Dalmeny?

 

[InOban]

On the LNER Highland Chieftain going South and we passed a late running ScotRail 'classic' HST at Pitlochary. It had hit a tree North of Dunkeld, unfortunately that is now across the line and the HC is stuck just North of Dunkeld.

I assumesume you're now on the move, since Scotrail have tweeted that NR have cleared the tree.

 

[47271]

I assumesume you're now on the move, since Scotrail have tweeted that NR have cleared the tree.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y70254/2019/01/27/advanced

Chieftain on the move and 67L at Dunkeld

 

[haggishunter]

Yes on the move now, 67L at Perth.

 

[Siemens Trains]

Is there HST stopboards at Dalmeny?

I think so. One platform has a board showing "H Car stop" and another board in a different location with "HST S Car stop". I don't know exactly what these mean, but they might suggest HSTs can use Dalmeny.

 

[JohnMcL7]

When I was going through Inverness station I saw one of the 'classic' HSTs sitting amongst the Turbostar/Sprinters, first time I've seen one actually in the station rather than sitting around. I noticed there is another one sitting round the back of the maintenance depot which I assume is a training one.

 

[43096]

Unless someone did their sums and got worried about recovering the costs.

For all that we are told about long leases for the HSTs, given the delays in getting refurbished sets into traffic I can see shiny new express trains being on offer as part of bids in the next franchise round - and if Abellio miss their performance targets, that process would be starting at some point in 2021.

As I understand it there is a Section 54 agreement in place for the HST fleet, guaranteeing use through to the late 2020s.

 

[43096]

Perhaps if you consider the expected timeline of GW fleet replacement during the period the MTUs were being fitted in Class 43s, you might understand why FGW decided against fitting the Knorr-Bremse system to its 118 Class 43s - the InterCity Express Programme was initially supposed to result in shiny new trains entering service at the start of 2013.

The delays as a result of constantly shifting DfT requirements for the trains it wanted, the decision to electrify the GWML and the further delays that followed the 2010 election meant the initial order with Agility/Hitachi was not finalised until July 2012.

Anyone suggesting in 2006 that many of those FGW Class 43s would end up being expected to carry on working deep into the 2020s would have been seen as crazy.

Given that payback on the electronic mods is around 2 to 2.5 years, and that the likes of MML justified fitting it on shorter franchise durations that the 2008-2013 window you give for the period to IEP introduction, then your analysis is flawed. Quite why FGW didn't fit it defies any logical explanation.

 

[Indigo Soup]

Not to mention the training that the Hospitality staff will need on the buffet...

At risk of asking a stupid question - is there any particular reason why hospitality training needs rolling stock at all? I would have thought it was fairly straightforward to set up a spare set of buffet equipment - and there must be some, even if only that ordered for the 27th set - somewhere in a depot for the purpose.

 

[bspahh]

Some more coaches are en route from Potters in Ely to Wabtec.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K91901/2019/01/29/advanced
57312 came through Ely pulling 42553, 42360, 42014, 41012, 41103 and 41006

 

[najaB]

Some more coaches are en route from Potters in Ely to Wabtec.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K91901/2019/01/29/advanced
57312 came through Ely pulling 42553, 42360, 42014, 41012, 41103 and 41006

They seem to be going in faster than they're coming out. The coach-eating tentacle monster must be getting fat!

 

[nat67]

They seem to be going in faster than they're coming out. The coach-eating tentacle monster must be getting fat!

Yes the proportions don't add up very well. 10 in 1 out.

 

[43096]

They seem to be going in faster than they're coming out. The coach-eating tentacle monster must be getting fat!

I would say it is a good sign if vehicles are going in more regularly, as that suggests that Wabtec believe the rate of production is increasing - there's no point bringing more vehicles in if there isn't space to do anything with them.

 

[najaB]

I would say it is a good sign if vehicles are going in more regularly, as that suggests that Wabtec believe the rate of production is increasing - there's no point bringing more vehicles in if there isn't space to do anything with them.

I hope that turns out to be true. At first I was in the "the rate will pick up after the first couple of sets" camp, but two were delivered with no sign of the production rate increasing.

 

[jingsmonty]

On the LNER Highland Chieftain going South and we passed a late running ScotRail 'classic' HST at Pitlochary. It had hit a tree North of Dunkeld, unfortunately that is now across the line and the HC is stuck just North of Dunkeld.

That was a shame, as I was supposed to take this HST back South as the 1518 Glasgow QS...had a 158 instead (which, for once, is forgivable under the circumstances).

 

[jingsmonty]

At risk of asking a stupid question - is there any particular reason why hospitality training needs rolling stock at all? I would have thought it was fairly straightforward to set up a spare set of buffet equipment - and there must be some, even if only that ordered for the 27th set - somewhere in a depot for the purpose.

Hot buffet (which Scotrail staff have no previous experience of), different equipment as well, I'd think. Not my area of expertise, but I would assume that Hospitality staff would need specific training on the Refurbished sets, I'm sure there are specific H & S/Food Standards training requirements that have to be adhered to. In theory, this could be done somewhere other than onboard, but it makes sense (to me) to do the training on the actual coach (can gain experience with the space constraints, for one thing).

It's not a stuipd question - the only stupid question is the one that doesn't get asked!

 

[hooverboy]

Hot buffet (which Scotrail staff have no previous experience of), different equipment as well, I'd think. Not my area of expertise, but I would assume that Hospitality staff would need specific training on the Refurbished sets, I'm sure there are specific H & S/Food Standards training requirements that have to be adhered to. In theory, this could be done somewhere other than onboard, but it makes sense (to me) to do the training on the actual coach (can gain experience with the space constraints, for one thing).

It's not a stuipd question - the only stupid question is the one that doesn't get asked!

do air hostesses have a specific training course on how to pour coffee in mild turbulence?...or is it..on the job?

not to my knowledge:
first aid..yes
food safety..yes
crowd control..yes
fire safety..yes
manual handling..yes
self defence(some operators)..yes.

maybe the ToC just needs to hire out a rodeo machine and give the potential employee a jug of coloured water to hold while riding it, to be measured for spillage after the assessed practical!

I slightly speak in jest, but cooking a fry-up when unbalanced is potentially dangerous.. there can certainly be an increased incidence of burns,scolds and cuts when handling hot objects on the move.

 

[Portypar]

The buffet staff have circuit breakers that are located within the buffet area that they have to isolate before departing the buffet ..hence the training

 

[jingsmonty]

do air hostesses have a specific training course on how to pour coffee in mild turbulence?...or is it..on the job?

not to my knowledge:
first aid..yes
food safety..yes
crowd control..yes
fire safety..yes
manual handling..yes
self defence(some operators)..yes.

maybe the ToC just needs to hire out a rodeo machine and give the potential employee a jug of coloured water to hold while riding it, to be measured for spillage after the assessed practical!

I slightly speak in jest, but cooking a fry-up when unbalanced is potentially dangerous.. there can certainly be an increased incidence of burns,scolds and cuts when handling hot objects on the move.

The Scotrail Inter7City buffet isn't a full kitchen, a la LNER - it's a good bit smaller than that (from the photos I've seen)...I doubt there will be meals cooked from fresh - more of a 'microwave panini' style.

To be honest, I don't know very much at all about the Hospitality training - I've not even been on the refurbished set yet!

 

[Highlandspring]

The refurb buffet has a fancy coffee machine and an oven/microwave, both of which are entirely new for ScotRail. I was travelling from Perth to Glasgow Queen Street on Friday afternoon and there was a group of seven Queen Street Hospitality staff travelling on the same train as me having evidently just had their refurbished HST training course. They annexed the front vestibule on a packed full and standing 170 to loudly discuss workplace scandal and told anyone who tried to board or get off at those doors that it was a “staff only area”...

 

[route101]

0838 From Queen St to Aberdeen was HST , was surprised .
Noticed that all seat reservations are in front STD coach.
How many Glasgow to Inverness services are HSTs,

 

[route101]

The refurb buffet has a fancy coffee machine and an oven/microwave, both of which are entirely new for ScotRail. I was travelling from Perth to Glasgow Queen Street on Friday afternoon and there was a group of seven Queen Street Hospitality staff travelling on the same train as me having evidently just had their refurbished HST training course. They annexed the front vestibule on a packed full and standing 170 to loudly discuss workplace scandal and told anyone who tried to board or get off at those doors that it was a “staff only area”...

Reminds of a certain VTWC coach K !

 

[haggishunter]

That was a shame, as I was supposed to take this HST back South as the 1518 Glasgow QS...had a 158 instead (which, for once, is forgivable under the circumstances).

Any damage or was that just because of the delay. I noticed later the Highland Chieftain was cancelled at Edinburgh (was only travelling as far as Stirling on this occasion).

 

[43096]

The refurb buffet has a fancy coffee machine and an oven/microwave, both of which are entirely new for ScotRail. I was travelling from Perth to Glasgow Queen Street on Friday afternoon and there was a group of seven Queen Street Hospitality staff travelling on the same train as me having evidently just had their refurbished HST training course. They annexed the front vestibule on a packed full and standing 170 to loudly discuss workplace scandal and told anyone who tried to board or get off at those doors that it was a “staff only area”...

They need reminding a) what hospitality staff are for and b) who pages their wages. Such attitudes need calling out and dealing with by management.

 

[jingsmonty]

Any damage or was that just because of the delay. I noticed later the Highland Chieftain was cancelled at Edinburgh (was only travelling as far as Stirling on this occasion).

The lifeguards were damaged on 43140, I believe - the set was in Inverness but not allowed to make the journey South.