Scotrail Class 385 Discussion

[InOban]

Just one delivery path in the system for this week, as yet at least. Tuesday.

 

[Journeyman]

I just went down to Queen Street and saw a pair of 385s (one four car, one three car) arrive on a press jolly from Edinburgh. First time I've seen 385s up close...and the conclusion I'm forced to jump to is that they're spectacularly ugly.

Not only is the front now asymmetrical (number higher on one side, two different types of window fitted), the roof-mounted and underframe-mounted equipment looks incredibly untidy and ungainly compared with the neat boxing-in on many other designs.

I'll probably get used to it in time, but the whole thing just looks awkward and uneven to me.

 

[InOban]

The press jolly is all over the Scotrail Twitter feed.

 

[DackandBlecker]

It is the key part of the revised EGIP programme which entirely centres on delivering 4tph of 8 X 23m coaches per hour.

This requires more than one platform to be available at Queen Street for 8x23m coaches.

In turn however it enabled the Greenhill remodelling, Croy turnback and Dalmeny Chord to be dropped, saving hundreds of millions of pounds for a similar capacity level.

And that’s a great loss however, especially the Dalmeny chord.
Very short term thinking.

 

[Altnabreac]

And that’s a great loss however, especially the Dalmeny chord.
Very short term thinking.

Well Yes and No. The Dalmeny Chord is still needed and no doubt will happen in CP6 but the previous version of EGIP would have spent an awfully large amount of money to run 2tph extra between the cities and not added much if any capacity to intermediate stations which is where much of the growth has been.

In my view running longer trains should be the plan across Scotland to increase capacity before we start running more services, especially once the frequency is around 4tph anyway.

I’d like to see 8 x 23m EMUs as the standard expected across the central belt with platforms lengthened to reflect this. For me one of the weaknesses of the current EGIP is that platforms have not been lengthened at Bishopbriggs and Lenzie which feels like a mistake. SDO is still possible but on the busier sections of route better to have full length platforms where they are relatively cheap to deliver.

 

[DackandBlecker]

Well Yes and No. The Dalmeny Chord is still needed and no doubt will happen in CP6 but the previous version of EGIP would have spent an awfully large amount of money to run 2tph extra between the cities and not added much if any capacity to intermediate stations which is where much of the growth has been.

In my view running longer trains should be the plan across Scotland to increase capacity before we start running more services, especially once the frequency is around 4tph anyway.

I’d like to see 8 x 23m EMUs as the standard expected across the central belt with platforms lengthened to reflect this. For me one of the weaknesses of the current EGIP is that platforms have not been lengthened at Bishopbriggs and Lenzie which feels like a mistake. SDO is still possible but on the busier sections of route better to have full length platforms where they are relatively cheap to deliver.

Would have seen better access to Gateway if used properly.
No guarantees it’ll ever happen.

 

[gingertom]

Well Yes and No. The Dalmeny Chord is still needed and no doubt will happen in CP6 but the previous version of EGIP would have spent an awfully large amount of money to run 2tph extra between the cities and not added much if any capacity to intermediate stations which is where much of the growth has been.

In my view running longer trains should be the plan across Scotland to increase capacity before we start running more services, especially once the frequency is around 4tph anyway.

I’d like to see 8 x 23m EMUs as the standard expected across the central belt with platforms lengthened to reflect this. For me one of the weaknesses of the current EGIP is that platforms have not been lengthened at Bishopbriggs and Lenzie which feels like a mistake. SDO is still possible but on the busier sections of route better to have full length platforms where they are relatively cheap to deliver.

made worse by the fact that Bishopbriggs was only recently extended to take 6 car trains. The plan back then was 6tph on the E&G and plans made on that basis. Wrongly as it turned out.

 

[92002]

I just went down to Queen Street and saw a pair of 385s (one four car, one three car) arrive on a press jolly from Edinburgh. First time I've seen 385s up close...and the conclusion I'm forced to jump to is that they're spectacularly ugly.

Not only is the front now asymmetrical (number higher on one side, two different types of window fitted), the roof-mounted and underframe-mounted equipment looks incredibly untidy and ungainly compared with the neat boxing-in on many other designs.

I'll probably get used to it in time, but the whole thing just looks awkward and uneven to me.

Having had the opportunity of looking at the 385s close up. Without the media scrum today, they are a tremendous improvement on the current 170s. There should probably be no more diesel trains from tomorrow. However the 385. is a great improvement both in interior and performance and a distinct improvement for passengers.

Think you will probably be in a minority from the masses tomorrow.

 

[Goldfish62]

I just went down to Queen Street and saw a pair of 385s (one four car, one three car) arrive on a press jolly from Edinburgh. First time I've seen 385s up close...and the conclusion I'm forced to jump to is that they're spectacularly ugly.

Not only is the front now asymmetrical (number higher on one side, two different types of window fitted), the roof-mounted and underframe-mounted equipment looks incredibly untidy and ungainly compared with the neat boxing-in on many other designs.

I'll probably get used to it in time, but the whole thing just looks awkward and uneven to me.

I hadn't appreciated that only the driver's side screen is being replaced.

 

[marks87]

I hadn't appreciated that only the driver's side screen is being replaced.

Might both be replaced in time, but the priority is the driver’s side?

 

[Stopper]

Its complicated.

Basically the Developer has to pay for the station before they can build beyond a certain number of the new houses. They haven't yet reached that number (Somewhere around 1000 houses from memory).

The new secondary school also has to be agreed before they can build beyond a certain number of houses (around 550 and almost reached now). This number is less the number for the station so the school has to be agreed first.

But the council will only agree to borrow money to build a school if they are sure the developer will pay that money back. So the council need to be sure that the station (and the motorway junction) are fully funded or else they might pay to build a school but then the developer has to stop building houses (and thus paying back the money the council has borrowed for the new school) because there is no money to pay for the station (or the motorway junction).

There are also City Deal loans and Scottish Government lending guarantees in there to make it more complicated.

The key thing to realise is that basically the funding has to be in place for all 6 big schemes - 2 secondary schools, 1 primary school, new station, link road, motorway junction before any one of them can go ahead as no one wants to pay for one of those 6 schemes if there isn't certainty that the other 5 are all being built as well.

2 secondary schools in Winchburgh? Where did you read that?

There’s only one in Linlithgow which is much bigger than even the proposed redeveloped Winchburgh, which also serves current Winchburgh.

 

[youngac]

A short video by the Scotsman (I know many of you have reservations about its reporting so I’ll take this with a pinch of salt) says that the next train won’t be introduced ‘until September’. Does that mean only one pair of units will be in service until then?

 

[kilonewton]

2 secondary schools in Winchburgh? Where did you read that?

There’s only one in Linlithgow which is much bigger than even the proposed redeveloped Winchburgh, which also serves current Winchburgh.

One non-denominational, one denominational. Linlithgow is in the catchment of the denominational secondary school in Blackburn, Winchburgh go to Livingston. I’d assume that the both the proposed schools in Winchburgh would recast both sets of catchments in West Lothian.
What all that has to do with the train coming past my house approximately 0616 tomorrow, I dunno.

 

[clc]

Just watched a news item about the new trains on STV in which the reporter said Network Rail and Scotrail are going to look at whether there are stretches of line where the line speed could be increased above 100mph.

 

[Altnabreac]

2 secondary schools in Winchburgh? Where did you read that?

There’s only one in Linlithgow which is much bigger than even the proposed redeveloped Winchburgh, which also serves current Winchburgh.

One non-denominational, one denominational. Linlithgow is in the catchment of the denominational secondary school in Blackburn, Winchburgh go to Livingston. I’d assume that the both the proposed schools in Winchburgh would recast both sets of catchments in West Lothian.
What all that has to do with the train coming past my house approximately 0616 tomorrow, I dunno.

Yes there are potentially up to 5 new schools planned in Winchburgh although only 3 are likely to be built in the next few years. Involves a recasting of both denominational and non denominational secondary schooling across the local authority. Getting very off topic for this thread though.

 

[ScottDarg]

A pic posted on Twitter by someone on todays press run shows an interesting moquette on the priority seating:

What a fantastic morning it's been! Travelled on my first @ScotRail Class 385 between #Glasgow and #Edinburgh and I must say they great trains! Thanks to all involved for a great event this morning! Thanks for the Lego 385 too @HitachiRailEU https://t.co/mhJD0adTmG

https://twitter.com/JakeNeill14/status/1021378855049842688?s=19

 

[mde]

A pic posted on Twitter by someone on todays press run shows an interesting moquette on the priority seating:

https://twitter.com/JakeNeill14/status/1021378855049842688?s=19

Al Dalton from the Scotsman shared this picture which captures more of the moquette - I'm pleased to see it's real moquette too and not that flat cloth rubbish being used elsewhere…

Image description: Two fainsa 'ironing board' seats with a dark blue moquette and brightly coloured icons depicting various passengers who might use a 'Priority seat' (pregnant, persons carrying children, folks with mobility aids, a person with a broken leg etc).

 

[youngac]

The Class 385s first official passengers will be boarding now...

 

[youngac]

385003, presumably still coupled with 385104 did the honour.

 

[sqrtc]

Looks like it'll be working even xx:15 from Edinburgh and odd xx:15 from Queen Street?

 

[Journeyman]

385003, presumably still coupled with 385104 did the honour.

Yup, I was on it from Linlithgow to Glasgow. Thoughts about it on my blog - http://journeyman.online/maiden-voyage/

 

[kilonewton]

I was waiting for the 0749 Linlithgow to Glasgow when it came back through for the 0745 to Edinburgh. Not a classic beauty, but as long as it works properly and there’s not the remnants of people’s meals on the tables I’ll be happy.
The 0749 was 170s. Bit of a disappointment!

 

[Journeyman]

The 0749 was 170s. Bit of a disappointment!

Interesting - that's normally the train I get to work, and it's been a pair of 365s for the last couple of weeks. Looks like they've rejigged the diagrams a bit - the 17.15 out of Queen Street was 170s last night, and that's been solid 365s for a while.

 

[Journeyman]

Looks like it'll be working even xx:15 from Edinburgh and odd xx:15 from Queen Street?

Looks like it, after the inaugural run to Glasgow it formed the 07.15 back to Edinburgh.

 

[SC318250]

Diagram is as follows

Ecs from Millerhill
0555 EDB - GLQ
0715/0915/1115/1315/1515/1715/1915 GQS to Edi
0815/1015/1215/1415/1615/1815 EDB - GLQ
After 1915 GLQ to EDB it is ecs to Millerhill

 

[theblackwatch]

Diagram is as follows

Ecs from Millerhill
0555 Edb-Glq
0715/0915/1115/1315/1515/1715/1915 GQS to Edi
0815/1015/1215/1415/1615/1815 Edb-GLQ
After 1915 GQS to Edi it is ecs to Millerhill

Thanks, is it just Monday to Friday or will it be working on weekends too?

 

[Highlandspring]

Looks like they’ve rejigged the diagrams a bit - the 17.15 out of Queen Street was 170s last night, and that's been solid 365s for a while.

That was due to 365533 and 517 failing in the afternoon. The 365s have started to become more than a bit troublesome in the last couple of weeks as the gremlins appear....

 

[gordonjahn]

That was due to 365533 and 517 failing in the afternoon. The 365s have started to become more than a bit troublesome in the last couple of weeks as the gremlins appear....

I'm sure there's a sigh of relief at Scotrail HQ having made it through the Open weekend and with 385s in service! There's even continuing progress at Queen Street where the steel framework in the car park is being dismantled again after around a 6 month hiatus to change their minds on what's being built.

 

[scotraildriver]

That was due to 365533 and 517 failing in the afternoon. The 365s have started to become more than a bit troublesome in the last couple of weeks as the gremlins appear....

Although a passenger pulling a pass comm right out the wall wasn't exactly the trains fault!

 

[mullac30]

The 385's seem to be making great first impressions on twitter! Unusual for a new fleet these days!