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Scotrail Class 385 Discussion

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Altnabreac

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Thanks for that - I knew it was tied to electrification, but the lack of communication from the various parties on the issue has been pretty shocking. A lot of us have bought property here in the expectation we'd get the station in a reasonable timeframe, and it's becoming ever more important given that First are about to axe half our buses.

Oh, well, I guess it's not that long in the grand scheme of things.

Its complicated.

Basically the Developer has to pay for the station before they can build beyond a certain number of the new houses. They haven't yet reached that number (Somewhere around 1000 houses from memory).

The new secondary school also has to be agreed before they can build beyond a certain number of houses (around 550 and almost reached now). This number is less the number for the station so the school has to be agreed first.

But the council will only agree to borrow money to build a school if they are sure the developer will pay that money back. So the council need to be sure that the station (and the motorway junction) are fully funded or else they might pay to build a school but then the developer has to stop building houses (and thus paying back the money the council has borrowed for the new school) because there is no money to pay for the station (or the motorway junction).

There are also City Deal loans and Scottish Government lending guarantees in there to make it more complicated.

The key thing to realise is that basically the funding has to be in place for all 6 big schemes - 2 secondary schools, 1 primary school, new station, link road, motorway junction before any one of them can go ahead as no one wants to pay for one of those 6 schemes if there isn't certainty that the other 5 are all being built as well.
 
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route101

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Not sure if has been mentioned but just seen a Falkirk Grahamston service depart from Queen st that is a 380
 

Stopper

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I was up early for work this morning and an ECS working from Millerhill EMU yard to FKG passed at 05:12, supposed to be a 380. However it appeared to be class 158 from my window which I found strange. Maybe I saw it incorrectly however.
 

herb21

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Not so. Winchburgh station can only happen once one of either Dalmeny Chord or electrification (to Dunblane / Alloa / Cumbernauld) has happened.

So once Dalmeny chord was cancelled Winchburgh station was tied to the full completion of electrification meaning that the Winchburgh calls will take less time in the faster accelerating electric Stirling services than they would have done in a DMU service.

The finances of the Winchburgh station reopening are also tied up in the wider negotiations between the developer, Scottish Government and West Lothian Council as part of the City Deal process. The new School infrastructure required (both primary and secondary) as well as the new link road to the north of Winchburgh and a new M9 motorway junction are all interlinked to the station funding but the financial package should all be agreed later this year. My suspicion is by the time contracts are then agreed for the station work a likely opening date is going to be May 2020 at the earliest and perhaps December 2020 is a more realistic proposal.
Thanks. That makes sense.
 

alangla

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According to postings on scot-rail, the E&G is all electric today, with several solo 365s/380s, solo 380s are running the Grahamstons and all the usual diesels are having a day out at the golf in Carnoustie!
 

route101

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According to postings on scot-rail, the E&G is all electric today, with several solo 365s/380s, solo 380s are running the Grahamstons and all the usual diesels are having a day out at the golf in Carnoustie!

Might have had my last 170 on the E & G
 

ld0595

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The 1224 from Queen St to Falkirk was one today . Very quiet launch for this.

Seems like the a lot of the Grahamston services are now electric. I was on the 13:23 which was a 380 and saw at least two other 380s while at Cumbernauld today.
 

ScottDarg

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ScotRail has put out a tweet confirming that the first of the 385s will enter service on Tuesday (24/07/18):
⚡️ The first @HitachiRailEU #Class385 train will enter service on Tuesday 24 July between Edinburgh & Glasgow via Falkirk. We've boosted seats on the route by over 17,000 per day. We can’t wait to welcome you on board!

https://t.co/VnWKBdgyjZ https://t.co/QhDaWpwDhB
https://twitter.com/ScotRail/status/1020344287320510464?s=19

EDIT: The Scotsman has also put out an article about this:
The first of ScotRail's new Hitachi trains is to finally enter service on Tuesday - ten months late - The Scotsman has learned.

The Japanese-built class 385 electric train is due to make its passenger debut on the main Edinburgh-Glasgow line on the 0555 from Edinburgh Waverley to Glasgow Queen Street.

The seven-carriage train will operate several other services on the route during the day, but is the only one of the 70-strong fleet yet available.

ScotRail chiefs had originally planned to start running the trains late at night and at weekends to minimise disruption from any breakdowns.

However, they are understood to be confident after months of testing that they are reliable enough to run on Scotland's busiest line at its busiest.

The introduction was delayed after the fleet had to have new windscreens fitted.

That was because drivers complained they could not see signals clearly at night through the original curved screens, which are being replaced with flatter ones.

The trains should have started running on ScotRail's flagship route last September but were initially held up by delays in building the trains and completing electrification of the line.

Humza Yousaf, the then transport minister, blasted the Hitachi delays in May as "just not acceptable".

He revealed said First Minister Nicola Sturgeon had had to intervene several times to get the Japanese firm to "deliver on its promises".

The trains will enable journey times to be cut by ten minutes to 42 minutes.

However, not all services will achieve this by the target date of December.

They will also ease overcrowding by running as up to eight carriages compared to the maximum six of the diesel trains they will replace.

The windscreen problem forced ScotRail to draft in a stand-in fleet for the route because some of its other trains had come to the end of their leases and were transferred to other operators.

The trains will also run on routes across the Central Belt, including to Dunblane and Alloa once electrification of those lines has been completed in December.

They will also operate on the Edinburgh-Glasgow line via Shotts, Edinburgh-North Berwick, Glasgow-Falkirk Grahamston via Cumbernauld, the Cathcart Circle in Glasgow, and the Glasgow to Neilston and Lanark routes.

ScotRail Alliance managing director Alex Hynes said: “I am delighted customers will be able to travel on our new Hitachi class 385 electric trains from next week. This is a significant moment."

Hitachi said 11 of the trains were in Scotland "at various stages of final preparations before entering into service".

A spokesman said: "We also have trains scheduled to travel from Newton Aycliffe [the County Durham factory where they are being built] up to Scotland over the coming weeks.

"At the moment we currently are building a train a week at Newton Aycliffe."

The spokesman said it would "deliver the majority of the fleet by the end of the year".
https://www.scotsman.com/news/trans...scotrail-trains-to-debut-on-tuesday-1-4771917
 
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92002

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gingertom

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If the Scotsman article is to believed a 7 car 385 is due to work the 0555 Edinburgh to Glasgow from Tuesday, then work the rest of the day.
If the Scotsman is to be believed we're getting 7 car units, as the 7 car set running on Tuesday one of the 70 on order.
 

92002

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If the Scotsman is to be believed we're getting 7 car units, as the 7 car set running on Tuesday one of the 70 on order.

Usual standard of Scotsman reporting. At one point they are talking about 8 car sets, which until the works are complete at Queen Street to lengthen the platforms won't fit and be beyond the departure signals.
So nothing new there then.
 

InOban

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If it's operating the 05.55 from Edinburgh, then presumably it will operate all day on the odd hours from QS and the even hours from Edinburgh. Whether it will be the same all week, don't know.
 

route101

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Im travelling to Edinburgh on Tuesday so fancy my chances in getting the 385 though probably on the return .
 

InOban

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How would a 7-car 385 use platform 3? I thought all E-G trains were using 7. But I now to the experts.
 

Sirius

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If there were an 8 car 385 it could only use P7. We are unlikely to see this in the short term because in the event of a failure at 7 it couldn’t be rerouted elsewhere.

Other platforms can take a 7x23m or 8x20m (365).
 

och aye

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https://twitter.com/ScotRail/status/1020610082894110723

Dii9XBAX4AUfxrm.jpg:large
 

gsnedders

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There was a 385 in platform 14 at Waverley at 22:25ish on Friday, just after platform 14 was announced for the 22:30; that somewhat confused me. It left not long after people had tried to open the rear doors on it, which didn't seem ideal. Not long after, we got the eight-car 365, which was typically quiet at the front.
 

scotraildriver

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How would a 7-car 385 use platform 3? I thought all E-G trains were using 7. But I now to the experts.
What do you mean? E &G services can and do leave from any platform - not just 7. Platforms 2 to 7 can hold a 7 car 380/385 or an 8 car 365.
 

gsnedders

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What do you mean? E &G services can and do leave from any platform - not just 7. Platforms 2 to 7 can hold a 7 car 380/385 or an 8 car 365.
I presume they were simply mistaken, given an 8 car 380/385 can fit on platform 7, and mixing up what a "full length" train entails currently.
 

PaxVobiscum

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From 1’45” in this video (already posted on the Glasgow Queen Street Refurbishment thread) there’s a 7 coach 380, then an 8 coach 365 both leaving from platform 4.
 

InOban

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So the upcoming platform extensions are merely to allow 8-coach 385s to access more platforms?
 

Starmill

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Well, one platform is clearly insufficient! It's tied up with the wider work to redevelop the station and surrounding area.
 

Altnabreac

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So the upcoming platform extensions are merely to allow 8-coach 385s to access more platforms?

It is the key part of the revised EGIP programme which entirely centres on delivering 4tph of 8 X 23m coaches per hour.

This requires more than one platform to be available at Queen Street for 8x23m coaches.

In turn however it enabled the Greenhill remodelling, Croy turnback and Dalmeny Chord to be dropped, saving hundreds of millions of pounds for a similar capacity level.
 
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