Scotrail Class 385 Discussion

[Clansman]

Well these are interesting. Like the look of them, the coach definitely looks longer than what it was projected on the leaflets Scotrail have (Not to be taken literally ). A few drivers have stated that the windows are too small! However, If you look to the top right of the cab window edge next to the roof there's a camera -- an early indication that trains will be DOO?

 

[D365]

The bogie looks a bit smaller too!

Has the livery changed, with the requirement for a yellow warning panel being relaxed?

 

[wibble]

The bogie looks a bit smaller too!

Has the livery changed, with the requirement for a yellow warning panel being relaxed?

Yep - RSSB have relaxed it. CrossRail trains won't have them. Can't find a link to the relevant text but read about it before Xmas.

 

[Clansman]

The bogie looks a bit smaller too!

Has the livery changed, with the requirement for a yellow warning panel being relaxed?

I think the new standard regarding livery had been relaxed starting this year. Personally I think the yellow would make the livery look better, it unifies all the trains in Britain I would say.

 

[swt_passenger]

Yep - RSSB have relaxed it. CrossRail trains won't have them. Can't find a link to the relevant text but read about it before Xmas.

It's shown a few posts into the thread I've linked to below.

I think the new law regarding livery had been relaxed starting this year. Personally I think the yellow would make the livery look better, it unifies all the trains in Britain I would say.

March 2016. It isn't a 'law', it is a railway group standard. Has been discussed in a few previous threads, such as this one from December:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=124174

 

[me123]

Thanks for the photos, looking forward to seeing the finished product.

 

[47802]

Well at least it makes a 380 look good

 

[380101]

Well these are interesting. Like the look of them, the coach definitely looks longer than what it was projected on the leaflets Scotrail have (Not to be taken literally ). My friend whose a driver in Glasgow said the windows are too small! However, If you look to the top right of the cab window edge next to the roof there's a camera -- an early indication that trains will be DOO?



(Message to moderators moderators. Permission to move this thread to UK Railway Discussion should topic of DOO be discussed, and permission to integrate with the "Abellio Scotrail Thread" should you see appropriate)

They will be set up as DOO capable units as they will be used on Glasgow southside routes such as Cathcart Circles etc. So they need to have body side cameras for DOO. Just like the 380 has GOP panels in every alternate door for guard controlled operation. It would be silly not to have DOO capability built in from new due to the costs if it were to be retro fitted at a later date.

Once the Scotland's Railway saltire livery is applied it will improve the look of the front end.

 

[Clansman]

They will be set up as DOO capable units as they will be used on Glasgow southside routes such as Cathcart Circles etc. So they need to have body side cameras for DOO. Just like the 380 has GOP panels in every alternate door for guard controlled operation. It would be silly not to have DOO capability built in from new due to the costs if it were to be retro fitted at a later date.

Once the Scotland's Railway saltire livery is applied it will improve the look of the front end.

Forgot they were working the Cathcart Circle. Seems a little bit weird having an express train on a suburban metro route though. I would have thought the Cathcart Circle could do with being integrated into the Glasgow Low Level network. Unless the Class 385 is considered a suburban train which it effectively is more or less.

 

[Domh245]

The bogie looks a bit smaller too!

Has the livery changed, with the requirement for a yellow warning panel being relaxed?

Possibly, the only renders that I can see with a light cluster and windscreen that would fit in the cutouts seen here have got yellow panels under the cab and a half yellow door

here

so it is entirely possible that the yellow will be applied afterwards, or we may see the full yellow door approach

It does look the cab extends back quite a bit as well

 

[Clansman]

Possibly, the only renders that I can see with a light cluster and windscreen that would fit in the cutouts seen here have got yellow panels under the cab and a half yellow door

here

so it is entirely possible that the yellow will be applied afterwards, or we may see the full yellow door approach

It does look the cab extends back quite a bit as well

I think the full yellow approach was for that particular concept of the AT200, most likely we will see the panels instead. Notice a lot of differences between the concept (the full yellow gangway one) and the actual shell.
The cab size reminds me of that on the old concept versions of the 455s with the huge doors.

 

[RPM]

Looking at those bodysides, it strikes me there are going to be rather a lot of seats with restricted views from the windows.

 

[mbreckers]

so it is entirely possible that the yellow will be applied afterwards, or we may see the full yellow door approach

They've definitely done the yellow door approach with the 380's, and it makes it look quite smart IMO, so if they do I would imagine that's what they would go with

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Is it just me, or are the ghosts of the 460s returning

 

[Bletchleyite]

It looks near identical to the 380.

 

[swt_passenger]

...so it is entirely possible that the yellow will be applied afterwards, or we may see the full yellow door approach[/URL]

It won't be in service before the rules change though, so why would it need to have any sort of yellow panel?

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Is it just me, or are the ghosts of the 460s returning

It's just you, unless we all missed the 460s having a gangway...

 

[380101]

It looks near identical to the 380.

The 380 front end is bad, but this is nowhere near as good. Think the insistence by transport Scotland on gangways has compromised the cab design and along with new crash regulations has resulted in the cabs having to be redesigned. Having seen an interior mock up picture of the cab, I'd say it will be more cramped with an even more restricted view than the 380 has.

 

[Clansman]

It won't be in service before the rules change though, so why would it need to have any sort of yellow panel?

Just because the rules change doesn't mean it wont be applied. Could just be a design thing if anything else. Looks nice and blends with Scotrail's interior colour scheme with the seat handles, and grab rails.

 

[jopsuk]

Forgot they were working the Cathcart Circle. Seems a little bit weird having an express train on a suburban metro route though. I would have thought the Cathcart Circle could do with being integrated into the Glasgow Low Level network. Unless the Class 385 is considered a suburban train which it effectively is more or less.

There will be the four-car fleet for the Edinburgh-Glasgow mainline express services and the three car for other services (eg Ednburgh/Glasgow to Stirling/Dunblane/Alloa). That's about as suburban a service as you can get in central Scotland, with almost services over one hour. They're not "express trains" at all, really

Is it just me, or are the ghosts of the 460s returning

Just you?

It looks near identical to the 380.

380: flat, angled front with a fold back gangway, protruding anti-rideup buffers.
385: vertical, rounded front with a vertical gangway. From the renders, more sculpted crash protection.

Nope, not seeing the resemblance?

 

[sprinterguy]

Has the livery changed, with the requirement for a yellow warning panel being relaxed?

You wouldn't necessarily expect the yellow end to be applied before the bodyshell has even been fitted out, bogies fitted, etc.

I personally expect to still see them with one - it's just an empty shell at the moment, after all.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Looking at those bodysides, it strikes me there are going to be rather a lot of seats with restricted views from the windows.

While it has certainly become a cliché on this forum, that was my first thought on seeing the photos: There's some very wide pillars around the doors and between the saloon windows.

The shape of the cab windows on this Hitachi product suggest that they might be more resilient to bird strikes than the relatively fragile, curved screens fitted to Siemens classes 350/444/450, though.

 

[Domh245]

It won't be in service before the rules change though, so why would it need to have any sort of yellow panel?

As Clansman said, just because you don't have to do it, doesn't mean that they won't. I imagine that in the grand scheme of things, the amount of paint needed to do some small yellow panels is rather inconsequential, certainly in terms of budgets! It would also give a slightly more uniform look to the scotrail fleet, and as I said the last time yellow panels were up for discussion, I would only expect a yellow-less livery if it is a completely new livery on a new fleet.

Another observation that I have made is that those headlight clusters are huge! They look to be about the same height as the cab windows overall, and look to be about 2/3rds the size of the chap in the background.

Overall, I think it looks quite nice, but it seems that is a minority view!

 

[sprinterguy]

I imagine that in the grand scheme of things, the amount of paint needed to do some small yellow panels is rather inconsequential, certainly in terms of budgets!

They can even be done with vinyl, as per the class 332s, but I don't believe that this is a common practice.

All of the Hitachi CGI mock-ups have certainly shown yellow ends in a couple of different forms. I think that the design shown on this page is the one most recently settled on:
http://www.hitachirail-eu.com/at200-for-scotland_141.html

Another observation that I have made is that those headlight clusters are huge! They look to be about the same height as the cab windows overall, and look to be about 2/3rds the size of the chap in the background.

Puts me in mind of those fitted to 185s, or London Midlands' 172s (but rotated through ninety degrees), which always seem quite large to me.

Overall, I think it looks quite nice, but it seems that is a minority view!

I'm in agreement with you: From the mock-ups, they're very smart looking trains.

 

[Feathers44]

I'm sure people will learn to love the new look. Um... Hopefully.

 

[Goldfish62]

I think the full yellow approach was for that particular concept of the AT200, most likely we will see the panels instead. Notice a lot of differences between the concept (the full yellow gangway one) and the actual shell.

Or we won't see any yellow at all.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I imagine that in the grand scheme of things, the amount of paint needed to do some small yellow panels is rather inconsequential, certainly in terms of budgets! It would also give a slightly more uniform look to the scotrail fleet, and as I said the last time yellow panels were up for discussion, I would only expect a yellow-less livery if it is a completely new livery on a new fleet.

Except the new Great Northern 700-type units that have been ordered are shown in illustrations in current GTR livery minus the yellow panel.

 

[dubscottie]

They can even be done with vinyl, as per the class 332s, but I don't believe that this is a common practice.

All of the Hitachi CGI mock-ups have certainly shown yellow ends in a couple of different forms. I think that the design shown on this page is the one most recently settled on:
http://www.hitachirail-eu.com/at200-for-scotland_141.html
.

They look smart like that and as others have said "uniform".

 

[Geeves]

Funny hearing the complaints about the seats already. If this train was being built for the Japanese suburban network it would be longitudinal bench seating and when I say suburban I use the term loosely. Some Toyko suburban trains have a 2 hour run before they do another hour out the other side of said city, no one complains! You can pay extra for proper seats, perhaps the TOCs are missing a trick here!

Anyway I digress, I think these units look awesome! Be sad to see the 314s go though.

 

[TRAX]

We can only get a hint of the finished design here but to me it already looks very nice !

 

[Bletchleyite]

We can only get a hint of the finished design here but to me it already looks very nice !

Indeed. As for the window view, that depends on the specified interior layout. If the door "dead space" was used for luggage rack then 4 bays aligned with the windows, they would be quite nice. Though I do prefer the *massive* windows of the 380s - almost as big as Swiss scenic stock!

 

[dubscottie]

Indeed. As for the window view, that depends on the specified interior layout. If the door "dead space" was used for luggage rack then 4 bays aligned with the windows, they would be quite nice. Though I do prefer the *massive* windows of the 380s - almost as big as Swiss scenic stock!

I don't know why but the side view reminds me of the last build of DART stock in Dublin.

Seats line up with the windows but no windows = standing room only.

I dont think windows (or lack of) would bother most people as most folks have faces stuck in phones etc 24/7 and never look up anyway.

 

[Clansman]

The 380 front end is bad, but this is nowhere near as good. Think the insistence by transport Scotland on gangways has compromised the cab design and along with new crash regulations has resulted in the cabs having to be redesigned. Having seen an interior mock up picture of the cab, I'd say it will be more cramped with an even more restricted view than the 380 has.

Depends which interior design you saw. A lot of different images circulating Hitachi on what the Class 385s would actually look like (prior to the construction pictures). Like I said we saw different examples of the Class 385 (ie the full yellow gangway one with the completely different design) and this is the case with the interior as well. I've seen the picture where the table doesnt align but the seat designs and table designs in that one look different to the majority of seats in other pictures. Just a case of "Wait and See"