Scotrail Class 385 Discussion

[mbreckers]

Well this is the image ScotRail are using on their site for the 385, I would assume that their marketing department would use something similar to the design they have been promoting

(Mods I still dont know how to resize the image using the IMG tag)

 

[Philip Phlopp]

All that CGI prowess and nobody thought to stick a contact wire in the shot.

Shocking. Or not, as the case may be.

 

[asylumxl]

All that CGI prowess and nobody thought to stick a contact wire in the shot.

Shocking. Or not, as the case may be.

Battery power?

 

[Juniper Driver]

How are they built compared to the "old days"? Is it done with moulds or jigs?

 

[Mikey C]

As an aside it seems a bit odd the the commuter train 385s would have the slower, but flush plug doors, whereas the high speed IEP 80x models have recessed sliding doors?

 

[Domh245]

How are they built compared to the "old days"? Is it done with moulds or jigs?

Hitachi's A-Trains are aluminium extrusions, stir welded together, so based on that, I would imagine jigs are the order of the day to weld the body together, with moulds (although they would technically be called dies) being used during the extrusion process. Glad to be corrected on this though.

 

[jopsuk]

As an aside it seems a bit odd the the commuter train 385s would have the slower, but flush plug doors, whereas the high speed IEP 80x models have recessed sliding doors?

the sliding doors on the AT300 range (including the CLass 395) are VERY different to the sliding doors on BR Mrk 3 MU (for example). They're certainly not quick, but they do provide an effective pressure seal. I would guess the AT200 doors will be faster than the AT300 doors.

The AT200 seems to be only the second "A-Train" model Hitachi have done with outward plug doors- the first being the TEMU1000 for Taiwan which has single-leaf plug doors. Recessed sliding doors as on the AT300 are found on even 200mph Shinkansen in Japan that are optimised for aerodynamics

 

[380101]

Depends which interior design you saw. A lot of different images circulating Hitachi on what the Class 385s would actually look like (prior to the construction pictures). Like I said we saw different examples of the Class 385 (ie the full yellow gangway one with the completely different design) and this is the case with the interior as well. I've seen the picture where the table doesnt align but the seat designs and table designs in that one look different to the majority of seats in other pictures. Just a case of "Wait and See"

I saw the cab interior photo at a Scotrail drivers briefing, and was pretty much the final version. Approved by the union in terms of control layout - almost identical to the 380, with the new TPWS panel.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Hitachi's A-Trains are aluminium extrusions, stir welded together, so based on that, I would imagine jigs are the order of the day to weld the body together, with moulds (although they would technically be called dies) being used during the extrusion process. Glad to be corrected on this though.

Ah,thanks.

 

[Clansman]

I saw the cab interior photo at a Scotrail drivers briefing, and was pretty much the final version. Approved by the union in terms of control layout - almost identical to the 380, with the new TPWS panel.

Yes it does a bit. Looks surprisingly spacious compared to what the external view would tell. Good looking cab as well. My friend took me the leaflet from his briefing. Ill try and get a decent hi res photo of it before posting on here, that's unless Hitachi beats me to it

 

[380101]

Yes it does a bit. Looks surprisingly spacious compared to what the external view would tell. Good looking cab as well. My friend took me the leaflet from his briefing. Ill try and get a decent hi res photo of it before posting on here, that's unless Hitachi beats me to it

Space isn't really the problem with the cab design. As a driver of a 380 I think the space is fine. It's the lack of visibility to the right that is the issue ie; we have no way to see out the right hand side without leaving the seat which is not possible. The 385 will be the same, potentially worse as the cab door appears as if it will be further back than the 380 - I can see out the side window in the door easy enough. Apparently not possible on the 385. Have heard alot of drivers are not happy at the lack of a side window.

 

[Mikey C]

the sliding doors on the AT300 range (including the CLass 395) are VERY different to the sliding doors on BR Mrk 3 MU (for example). They're certainly not quick, but they do provide an effective pressure seal. I would guess the AT200 doors will be faster than the AT300 doors.

The AT200 seems to be only the second "A-Train" model Hitachi have done with outward plug doors- the first being the TEMU1000 for Taiwan which has single-leaf plug doors. Recessed sliding doors as on the AT300 are found on even 200mph Shinkansen in Japan that are optimised for aerodynamics

Recessed sliding doors are the last thing you'd expect to find on a bullet train, but I trust the Japanese on this one! Certainly the 395 doors from memory don't violently shake when going into a tunnel...

 

[urpert]

It looks near identical to the 380.

Recessed sliding doors are the last thing you'd expect to find on a bullet train, but I trust the Japanese on this one! Certainly the 395 doors from memory don't violently shake when going into a tunnel...

There was a great Informed Sources a few years ago on exactly this subject. They have a hinged rubber roller which presses the door outwards once the speed exceeds something like 10km/h. Roger used it as an example of the Japanese idea of constant improvement through incremental change (rather than throwing the baby out with the bath water).

 

[asylumxl]

There was a great Informed Sources a few years ago on exactly this subject. They have a hinged rubber roller which presses the door outwards once the speed exceeds something like 10km/h. Roger used it as an example of the Japanese idea of constant improvement through incremental change (rather than throwing the baby out with the bath water).

Just to add, Hitachi also felt plug doors could not achieve the same reliability as their sliding doors. They were refused to use them up until relatively recently.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Given how scotrail and TPE have been bedroom buddies, and owned by scottish firms, wonder how relevant the AT 300's and these images will be to TPE's upcoming rolling stock announcement.....

 

[laseandre]

Given how scotrail and TPE have been bedroom buddies, and owned by scottish firms, wonder how relevant the AT 300's and these images will be to TPE's upcoming rolling stock announcement.....

They weren't "owned by scottish firms" they were both the one Scottish company - First. And franchises aren't "owned" either...

Well, now that Scotrail isn't run by First, I don't really see the relevancy. Don't forget that TPE just got 350s relatively recently. I don't see them deciding on a completely new supplier of EMUs any time soon...

 

[Philip Phlopp]

They weren't "owned by scottish firms" they were both the one Scottish company - First. And franchises aren't "owned" either...

Well, now that Scotrail isn't run by First, I don't really see the relevancy. Don't forget that TPE just got 350s relatively recently. I don't see them deciding on a completely new supplier of EMUs any time soon...

The Class 350 fleet leaves TransPennine though, as part of the new fleet being introduced. Hitachi have also been the favoured supplier of First Group for the last year - Hitachi AT300 units on order for Great Western and Hull Trains, with options on more units.

Siemens are also quite tight on capacity at the moment, with stock for Thameslink, Moorgate services, and SWT's order. Hitachi on the other hand have their newly acquired plant in Italy to fill with orders, in addition to having Kasado and Newton Aycliffe to keep busy.

 

[laseandre]

The Class 350 fleet leaves TransPennine though, as part of the new fleet being introduced. Hitachi have also been the favoured supplier of First Group for the last year - Hitachi AT300 units on order for Great Western and Hull Trains, with options on more units.

Siemens are also quite tight on capacity at the moment, with stock for Thameslink, Moorgate services, and SWT's order. Hitachi on the other hand have their newly acquired plant in Italy to fill with orders, in addition to having Kasado and Newton Aycliffe to keep busy.

Fair enough, I've been out of the loop for a while. My main issue with his line of thinking was "they're owned by Scottish companies so they must be thinking of buying the same trains"

 

[Mikey C]

The Class 350 fleet leaves TransPennine though, as part of the new fleet being introduced. Hitachi have also been the favoured supplier of First Group for the last year - Hitachi AT300 units on order for Great Western and Hull Trains, with options on more units.

Siemens are also quite tight on capacity at the moment, with stock for Thameslink, Moorgate services, and SWT's order. Hitachi on the other hand have their newly acquired plant in Italy to fill with orders, in addition to having Kasado and Newton Aycliffe to keep busy.

By the sound of things CAF have been offering very competitive pricing to fill their empty factories, and they now have a foothold in the UK mainland with their recent orders

 

[deltic08]

Looking at those bodysides, it strikes me there are going to be rather a lot of seats with restricted views from the windows.

Just what I was thinking. Also an unhappy looking front with very sad oriental "eyes". May look better when the holes are filled in.

 

[FOH]

Just what I was thinking. Also an unhappy looking front with very sad oriental "eyes". May look better when the holes are filled in.

For me it makes me think of the current Piccadilly line fleet from the front.

 

[deltic08]

Another observation that I have made is that those headlight clusters are huge! They look to be about the same height as the cab windows overall, and look to be about 2/3rds the size of the chap in the background.

I assume the body shells are built in Japan in which case the Japanese are small in stature so the windows may not be as big as you think.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The bogie looks a bit smaller too! ;

And only 3ft 6ins gauge too. Everything is small in Japan including trees.

 

[ld0595]

http://www.railmagazine.com/news/fleet/2016/02/09/brand-new-scottish-trains-unveiled/image/12368 Scotrail have released a full size mock model of the 385 in Edinburgh today.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

I've always wondered... When they do mock ups of new builds, a lot of the stuff will be real parts - what happens to them after the mock up's work is done?

 

[northwichcat]

I've always wondered... When they do mock ups of new builds, a lot of the stuff will be real parts - what happens to them after the mock up's work is done?

Sometimes they finish up in museums. The Metrolink T68 mockup finished up in Manchester Transport Museum, while I believe there's a 380 mockup in a museum in Scotland.

 

[scotraildriver]

The 380 mock up is stored somewhere now. When it was on display there were stickers on many parts saying "mock up only, do not use" so presumably these parts are not to the same or final specifications.

 

[chris89]

The 380 mock up is stored somewhere now. When it was on display there were stickers on many parts saying "mock up only, do not use" so presumably these parts are not to the same or final specifications.

It's at the Transport Museum in Glasgow near to Partick station.

 

[Bletchleyite]

http://www.railmagazine.com/news/fleet/2016/02/09/brand-new-scottish-trains-unveiled/image/12368 Scotrail have released a full size mock model of the 385 in Edinburgh today.

Nice, I'm up in bonnie Scotland next week so will have a nose.

 

[Clansman]

Portocabin at Edinburgh Waverley today with the interior of the new Class 385s within. Interior looks not bad, similar to the 800 obviously because it's the same company making them. I hate those bloody seats though! Them thin based ones that are emerging on the Electrostars, hate them so much, too "suburbany" in my opinion. First class seats could be bigger but I guess I'm hard to impress. With those seats you'd be as well use a Class 334 or a Class 380

The 380 mock up is stored somewhere now. When it was on display there were stickers on many parts saying "mock up only, do not use" so presumably these parts are not to the same or final specifications.

The 380 mock up is still inside the Transport Museum in Glasgow beside the SECC along the Clyde.

 

[sng7]

In fairness the Class 385 is designed for suburban services serving Glasgow and Edinburgh with journey times of about 45 mins currently on the main line. We are Getting Refurbished HSTs for the long distance services which should be furnished accordingly.

And i didn't see the 380 mock up when i was at the riverside transport museum a few weeks ago so either they have moved it and i didn't notice or its no longer on display.