Scotland Votes 2011

[me123]

I think the biggest issue for crown dependencies is defence; it would be a retrograde step for Scotland in this area, because it would remain largely under the control of Westminster, yet we wouldn't elect MPs any more! Furthermore, we are small, but we're big enough to defend ourselves! However, this status would leave us pretty much independent, and may be considered more acceptable to many who shy away from full independence.

 

[Zoe]

There would also be no Scottish citizenship in that case, people in Scotland would still be British citizens and would be issued with British passports. I doubt the SNP would want this. You could still have full indepedece and keep the Queen though, you would just have a Governor General appointed by the Queen on advice of the Prime Minister of Scotland. Alternatively you could decide to not have a Governor General and send all bills to London for Royal Assent.

 

[Nightrider]

Still shocked by thursday's result.
Thought the whole point of that strange voting system was to make sure nobody ever gained a majority.
Still, we live in interesting times.
Whatever happens now i suppose the railways north of border will always be called ScotRail.

 

[Bittern]

No reason for it to change. It's became a well established brand and very well know n name. I'd say everyone in Scotland know who ScotRail is.

 

[Nightrider]

I can remember the October 1974 general election, the second election to be held that year.
The SNP won 11 seats and the Prime Minister of the time, Harold Wilson, said "its not the 11 seats they won but the 44 seconds that worried me".
Last thursday all those seconds came home to roost, big style.

 

[LE Greys]

I reckon they'll stop doing that soon. Probably soon after they realise that there is no such currency

To be introduced by the Thane of Stirling, with a picture of a castle on the back.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think the biggest issue for crown dependencies is defence; it would be a retrograde step for Scotland in this area, because it would remain largely under the control of Westminster, yet we wouldn't elect MPs any more! Furthermore, we are small, but we're big enough to defend ourselves! However, this status would leave us pretty much independent, and may be considered more acceptable to many who shy away from full independence.

That creates a couple of problems. The SNP are dead against nuclear weapons, so it seems likely that Faslane would close, however, there are also the bases at Lossiemouth and Leuchars. The squadrons based there could relocate to other bases - Linton-upon-Ouse would be one - but they might just stay where they were. Presumably Scotland would still be part of NATO, so there would not be much difference from forward-deploying in Germany. However, there's also the possibility of divvying-up the armed forces - the Ukraine got several Tu-22M squadrons when the USSR broke up, but eventually handed them back. Can you really transfer personnel between units (or ships for that matter) to ensure that some end up all-Scottish. The Scottish Regiments are another matter.

 

[317 forever]

It was ironic but a remarkable achievement for the SNP to gain a majority, after the AMS system was introduced to try to prevent it. The SNP topped the regional list everywhere in Scotland. There was such a strong vote for the SNP that the Parliament is less diverse than in 2003, when plenty of people were voting for different parties on the top-up list than for their constituency.

The SNP have won constituencies in areas currently served by Charles Kennedy, Menzies Campbell, Gordon Brown and Alastair Darling. They have also won in areas served by the late Robin Cook, John Smith and Donald Dewar.

Here's a conundrum. No bad taste intended, honest. Suppose that Donald Dewar were still alive and had just been ousted by the SNP in Glasgow Anniesland. Would he want the clip to be shown on tv where he said "There shall be a Scottish Parliament. I like that!"?

 

[Zoe]

The SNP topped the regional list everywhere in Scotland.

No they did not, they didn't win any seats from the Lothian list.

 

[Nightrider]

To be introduced by the Thane of Stirling, with a picture of a castle on the back.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


That creates a couple of problems. The SNP are dead against nuclear weapons, so it seems likely that Faslane would close, however, there are also the bases at Lossiemouth and Leuchars. The squadrons based there could relocate to other bases - Linton-upon-Ouse would be one - but they might just stay where they were. Presumably Scotland would still be part of NATO, so there would not be much difference from forward-deploying in Germany. However, there's also the possibility of divvying-up the armed forces - the Ukraine got several Tu-22M squadrons when the USSR broke up, but eventually handed them back. Can you really transfer personnel between units (or ships for that matter) to ensure that some end up all-Scottish. The Scottish Regiments are another matter.

As someone who lives in Scotland the country would need a small defence force but Nato would be a no no to those with my politics.
Not much point in gaining independence in a small country and then joining with world superpowers to attack other small countries around the globe.
I want Scotland to be seen as beacon of hope around the world not mercenaries for warlords in London and Washington.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It was ironic but a remarkable achievement for the SNP to gain a majority, after the AMS system was introduced to try to prevent it. The SNP topped the regional list everywhere in Scotland. There was such a strong vote for the SNP that the Parliament is less diverse than in 2003, when plenty of people were voting for different parties on the top-up list than for their constituency.

The SNP have won constituencies in areas currently served by Charles Kennedy, Menzies Campbell, Gordon Brown and Alastair Darling. They have also won in areas served by the late Robin Cook, John Smith and Donald Dewar.

Here's a conundrum. No bad taste intended, honest. Suppose that Donald Dewar were still alive and had just been ousted by the SNP in Glasgow Anniesland. Would he want the clip to be shown on tv where he said "There shall be a Scottish Parliament. I like that!"?

The SNP won a landslide victory by winning 53 seats using the westminster first past the post system and 16 from regional lists.
The voters of Scotland and not anybody else will decide Scotland's future.
Donald Dewar was a democrat, he would expect the Scottish people to step up to the podium and take up their place amongst the sovereign nations of the world.

 

[LE Greys]

As someone who lives in Scotland the country would need a small defence force but Nato would be a no no to those with my politics.
Not much point in gaining independence in a small country and then joining with world superpowers to attack other small countries around the globe.
I want Scotland to be seen as beacon of hope around the world not mercenaries for warlords in London and Washington.

From that standpoint, I would recommend a rapid exit from the E.U. and U.N. as well, and a policy of total neutrality, modelled on Switzerland. It's worked fine for them for a very long time. France pulled out of NATO once, complaining about American dominance (and they were probably right) but they rejoined later. If you're referring to Libya, then that was a response to a request for help from the Libyan people, and sanctioned by the U.N. The non-sanctioned "adventuring" wars in Iraq and Afghanistan did not have very much to do with NATO, who only ended up lumbered with the latter to help sort out the mess the Americans made of the country.

 

[Nightrider]

From that standpoint, I would recommend a rapid exit from the E.U. and U.N. as well, and a policy of total neutrality, modelled on Switzerland. It's worked fine for them for a very long time. France pulled out of NATO once, complaining about American dominance (and they were probably right) but they rejoined later. If you're referring to Libya, then that was a response to a request for help from the Libyan people, and sanctioned by the U.N. The non-sanctioned "adventuring" wars in Iraq and Afghanistan did not have very much to do with NATO, who only ended up lumbered with the latter to help sort out the mess the Americans made of the country.

Interesting times ahead.
Hopefully with hard work on our part and a lot of goodwill from across the globe as well as from our nearest neighbour we can build a fairer society that is a beacon of hope to people around the world.

 

[317 forever]

Interesting times ahead.
Hopefully with hard work on our part and a lot of goodwill from across the globe as well as from our nearest neighbour we can build a fairer society that is a beacon of hope to people around the world.

I suddenly notice we both joined this forum on the same day! You have contributed twice as may posts as me though.

 

[Bittern]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/may/08/cameron-green-light-scottish-referendum

Cameron gives green light to Independence Referendum.

 

[Nightrider]

No it's not. Politics aside, Iain Gray must not be allowed into the public eye. He's the most annoying, pathetic, vile little man to ever enter Scottish politics. And that's saying something! If it was a contest between Gray and Salmond, Salmond would win in a landslide. Thankfully, the electorate aren't just voting for personalities here.

Very perceptive as it turned out.

You don't do lottery numbers by any chance.

 

[ainsworth74]

Cameron gives green light to Independence Referendum.

Well that's not exactly surprising, I'm not sure why anyone even thought Cameron would block a referendum or even go as far as dissolving the Scottish Parliament! Still I expect him and the rest of the UK's politicians to campaign vigorously against dissolving the UK.

 

[Nightrider]

Still I expect him and the rest of the UK's politicians to campaign vigorously against dissolving the UK.

I and thousands like me relish the debate.

 

[ainsworth74]

I and thousands like me relish the debate.

See you on the other side of said debate

 

[Bittern]

I'm going to enjoy watching this relic of an extinct empire finally split.

 

[Nightrider]

See you on the other side of said debate

Not unless you intend moving to live in Scotland you won't.

 

[ainsworth74]

Not unless you intend moving to live in Scotland you won't.

Good point!

Still I would be increadibly surprised if we don't start discussing it on here at some point (though to be honest I have a feeling we're slowly heading in that direction right now ).

 

[Nightrider]

Good point!

Still I would be increadibly surprised if we don't start discussing it on here at some point (though to be honest I have a feeling we're slowly heading in that direction right now ).

No doubt people across the planet will debate it online.
That can only be a good thing.
Nothing beats the reality of talking to fellow voters.
In the cold light of day, they and they alone will decide Scotland's future.

 

[ainsworth74]

In the cold light of day, they and they alone will decide Scotland's future.

Just as it should be.

 

[Zoe]

Still I expect him and the rest of the UK's politicians to campaign vigorously against dissolving the UK.

The United Kingdom is here to stay even without Scotland. The only change is that it would be just be the United Kingdom of Southern Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

 

[CarterUSM]

I would expect, and hope, it would stay as it is. I really do not see the point in it, I am not especially pro union, though I would say I could be described as disinterested in independence. I feel Scotlands needs and wants are adequately discussed and debated within the status quo setup. We have always retained our law and judicial system along with education, some culture and other things. The debate in the months to come will be interesting nonetheless, and I look forward to it.

 

[Mojo]

To be honest, I'd have thought that Cameron would like to see the back of Scotland in the UK Parliament purely and would have thought of it as a way of getting rid of Labour MPs.

I think there are 59 Scottish constituencies which would mean there are 591 seats outside of Scotland, so in order to win in the UK minus Scotland then 296 seats would be required. Given the Conservatives got 305 seats outside of Scotland there would have been a majority (albeit a very tiny one) in the Parliament of England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

 

[Aictos]

If the SNP does win a referendum on splitting fully from Westminister then they have no choice but to put up council tax to pay for the freebies that the English taxpayers via Westminister kindly pay for.

As the SNP themselves has publicly stated that Scotland spends £3.8 Billion a year more then what it currently gets from taxes so in order to balance the books, the SNP has to raise tax by 12p in the pound which would pay for the current freebies such as free personal care for the elderly and university education which is not available to English taxpayers.

One referendum which needs to be held and it's not about the Union but rather the future of Britain's role in the EU, personally I think we ought to pull out and follow Switzerland, Norway etc...in only being trading partners with the EU and nothing else which would give us our much needed independence back from the EU.

 

[Nightrider]

If the SNP does win a referendum on splitting fully from Westminister then they have no choice but to put up council tax to pay for the freebies that the English taxpayers via Westminister kindly pay for.

As the SNP themselves has publicly stated that Scotland spends £3.8 Billion a year more then what it currently gets from taxes so in order to balance the books, the SNP has to raise tax by 12p in the pound which would pay for the current freebies such as free personal care for the elderly and university education which is not available to English taxpayers.

One referendum which needs to be held and it's not about the Union but rather the future of Britain's role in the EU, personally I think we ought to pull out and follow Switzerland, Norway etc...in only being trading partners with the EU and nothing else which would give us our much needed independence back from the EU.

So you want the UK to be independent but not Scotland.
Interesting.

 

[Eng274]

If Scotland was to become independent, I would want nothing to do with the EU. The smaller Eurozone countries have been more prone (or maybe it's a coincidence that the smaller ones take more economic risks...) to needing bailout from the EU, and I wouldn't want Scotland to become one of them. If we did have do establish our own currency so be it, I'd rather we used a new currency which took time to stabilise, than the united states of Franco-Germany dictate our affairs and our currency. From not contributing to the eurozone's ludicrous wealth redistribution nonsense, the saved money would help reduce any dubious defecit Westminster would have us believe existed.

 

[Nightrider]

If Scotland was to become independent, I would want nothing to do with the EU. The smaller Eurozone countries have been more prone (or maybe it's a coincidence that the smaller ones take more economic risks...) to needing bailout from the EU, and I wouldn't want Scotland to become one of them. If we did have do establish our own currency so be it, I'd rather we used a new currency which took time to stabilise, than the united states of Franco-Germany dictate our affairs and our currency. From not contributing to the eurozone's ludicrous wealth redistribution nonsense, the saved money would help reduce any dubious defecit Westminster would have us believe existed.

So i can put you down as a YES vote.

 

[Eng274]

So i can put you down as a YES vote.

Aye :P