S Stock feels dated despite age

[Recessio]

That might be attributed to the steadily increasing use of regen that is fed back to the supply rather than wasting it by heating a lot of underfloor resistors.

I also wonder if modern stock being air conditioned could possibly be filtering any incoming brake dust a bit better.

 

[AM9]

I also wonder if modern stock being air conditioned could possibly be filtering any incoming brake dust a bit better.

possibly, but given that most trains on a given service tend to use brakes in the same geographical places, there would still be the actual smell of heated resistors lingering in the tunnels.

 

[Silent]

I also wonder if modern stock being air conditioned could possibly be filtering any incoming brake dust a bit better.

Yep, I think better sealing in the interior.

 

[450.emu]

I think that particular era of the Bombardier stock in terms of design language aged quickly as well. The 2009 Victoria Line stock is a state, looking at the very grubby arm rests and tired moquette. Sadly the Metropolitan Line S stock has had lots of issues with graffiti taggers as well. Doesn't seem to be cleaned off as throughly as one would expect...

 

[NCT]

Not sure graffiti or arm rest wear are ‘design language’ issues.

 

[thomalex]

Not sure graffiti or arm rest wear are ‘design language’ issues.

Arm rest wear certainly is where fabric has been used for some reason, should have been hard wearing plastic from the start.

 

[AndrewP]

Having been on them over the last couple of days, they don't feel dated at all but a little tired - new moquette and a deep clean would transform them

 

[Silent]

I remember cgi images of the s stock and 09 stock in the mid or late 00's. They had green dot matrix external displays. I think if they went with green dot matrix, although an easy fix as seen with 95/6 stocks, they would look more dated although I feel like green is a more pleasant dot matrix colour but less clear I guess compared to orange.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I remember cgi images of the s stock and 09 stock in the mid or late 00's. They had green dot matrix external displays. I think if they went with green dot matrix, although an easy fix as seen with 95/6 stocks, they would look more dated although I feel like green is a more pleasant dot matrix colour but less clear I guess compared to orange.

Green and dot matrix always look outdated and it’s something I felt always made 350/360/450/444 seem somewhat behind 357/375/376/377.

 

[RacsoMoquette]

https://www.railway-technology.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/13/2017/10/image_3.jpg

https://www.railway-technology.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/13/2017/10/image_1.jpg

The concept CGI images of the future replacements stock for the Sub Surface Lines and Victoria Line had door windows which tapered to the side at the bottom. This design was very akin to some contemporary trains on Berlin S Bahn. Maybe a common Bombardier design at the time? As the S Bahn Class 481 was an ADtranz, later Bombardier design. Anyway it is interesting to see concept designs that never came to fruition.

 

[Recessio]

https://www.railway-technology.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/13/2017/10/image_3.jpg

https://www.railway-technology.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/13/2017/10/image_1.jpg

The concept CGI images of the future replacements stock for the Sub Surface Lines and Victoria Line had door windows which tapered to the side at the bottom. This design was very akin to some contemporary trains on Berlin S Bahn. Maybe a common Bombardier design at the time? As the S Bahn Class 481 was an ADtranz, later Bombardier design. Anyway it is interesting to see concept designs that never came to fruition.

That blue swish is very noughties, goodness. I think the trains in those CGI renders certainly look more dated than the current S stock!

 

[announcements]

Green and dot matrix always look outdated and it’s something I felt always made 350/360/450/444 seem somewhat behind 357/375/376/377.

Yes, it's like the green text on black background looks associated with Teletext and the like! I was travelling on the Singapore metro not too long ago and they have green text - it made the trains feel dated for sure. I personally don't mind the retro quirk, however!

 

[Silent]

https://www.railway-technology.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/13/2017/10/image_3.jpg

https://www.railway-technology.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/13/2017/10/image_1.jpg

The concept CGI images of the future replacements stock for the Sub Surface Lines and Victoria Line had door windows which tapered to the side at the bottom. This design was very akin to some contemporary trains on Berlin S Bahn. Maybe a common Bombardier design at the time? As the S Bahn Class 481 was an ADtranz, later Bombardier design. Anyway it is interesting to see concept designs that never came to fruition.

I'm glad they didn't use that s stock concept as it looks too much like an electrostar to me, instead of a proper london underground train

 

[EJD799]

The S Stock feels new, but not modern. The 2009 Stock, on the other hand, is in desperate need of refurbishment. As a comparison, the R160 in New York City is a few years older than the S/2009 Stock, and yet still is comparable to brand-new rolling stock.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Dec 2025 ==

Using 09 stock for daily commute they are also actually in good condition, reliable. I think before I used them daily they appeared dirty with worn out seats. But I think the poor ventilation system is the main thing that would age it. Only because it would give the trains a bad perception when all other tube stock have air cooling. Not really how it operates.

The only ones with air conditioning currently are the sub-surface lines, with S Stock.

 

[Silent]

The S Stock feels new, but not modern. The 2009 Stock, on the other hand, is in desperate need of refurbishment. As a comparison, the R160 in New York City is a few years older than the S/2009 Stock, and yet still is comparable to brand-new rolling stock.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Dec 2025 ==


The only ones with air conditioning currently are the sub-surface lines, with S Stock.

But 2009 stock has fans that blow out warm air, it was originally thought it might make the trains more cooler or pleasant to ride. It's not air conditioning but it's fans.

Watching the 24 tube stock I think the things that would show its age in 15 years or so are the LED light and upper wall panels. That's not a bad thing though imo.

 

[AM9]

But 2009 stock has fans that blow out warm air, it was originally thought it might make the trains more cooler or pleasant to ride. It's not air conditioning but it's fans.

But that air is discharged into the tunnels to become the air that is sucked in by blowing out. Therefore maintaining the highest ambient of all the tubes in London.

 

[EJD799]

Watching the 24 tube stock I think the things that would show its age in 15 years or so are the LED light and upper wall panels.

Why do you say that? We have kind of reached the pinnacle of LEDs and screen technology already.

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https://www.railway-technology.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/13/2017/10/image_3.jpg

https://www.railway-technology.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/13/2017/10/image_1.jpg

The concept CGI images of the future replacements stock for the Sub Surface Lines and Victoria Line had door windows which tapered to the side at the bottom. This design was very akin to some contemporary trains on Berlin S Bahn. Maybe a common Bombardier design at the time? As the S Bahn Class 481 was an ADtranz, later Bombardier design. Anyway it is interesting to see concept designs that never came to fruition.

Those look like the pre-AI equivalent of AI slop.

 

[Silent]

Why do you say that? We have kind of reached the pinnacle of LEDs and screen technology already.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Dec 2025 ==


Those look like the pre-AI equivalent of AI slop.

I think that led light design is still being explored a bit in terms of using it in design. For example, I think I remember in the 10’s cars using more technical or complex light design with led’s becoming mainstream but now I notice the shift to more subtle design in cars with led, trying to blend led lights into the car body more than with previous lights used on cars where it seemed designed more like a separate component and less integrated into the design.

With the ceiling patterns, idk, maybe just material changes, subtle ones or style changes may make it look dated but not in a bad way.

 

[FrontSideBus]

Why do you say that? We have kind of reached the pinnacle of LEDs and screen

You should see how badly the LED lighting is degrading on Merseyrail's new 777's and they have only been in service for a couple of years!

 

[OneTrackMinded]

You should see how badly the LED lighting is degrading on Merseyrail's new 777's and they have only been in service for a couple of years!

That’s very unusual, LED isn’t supposed to degrade like that. Halogens do that.

 

[Silent]

That’s very unusual, LED isn’t supposed to degrade like that. Halogens do that.

Apparently they are meant to last longer than halogens but I think that requires the right type of casings and stuff hence why that always isn't the case so far.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Dec 2025 ==

I think that led light design is still being explored a bit in terms of using it in design. For example, I think I remember in the 10’s cars using more technical or complex light design with led’s becoming mainstream but now I notice the shift to more subtle design in cars with led, trying to blend led lights into the car body more than with previous lights used on cars where it seemed designed more like a separate component and less integrated into the design.

With the ceiling patterns, idk, maybe just material changes, subtle ones or style changes may make it look dated but not in a bad way.

I may be wrong though because if led lights are becoming more integrated with the designs of vehicles maybe they would blend in so much in the future that they don't stand out as much on a vehicle, just a thought?

 

[rebmcr]

Apparently they are meant to last longer than halogens but I think that requires the right type of casings

LEDs, especially bright ones meant for illumination rather than just indication, do require a decent amount of cooling. A poorly designed case might be plausible to explain premature failures.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I've had plenty of LEDs at home get progressively dimmer once they pass a certain age ( age for a light being measured in terms of hours of use ). These were not recessed in holders either, just hanging from normal bulb holders - and yes, they were LEDs and not the older types like compact florescent bulbs.

 

[Wolfie]

You should see how badly the LED lighting is degrading on Merseyrail's new 777's and they have only been in service for a couple of years!

The 777s go a long way to disprove the Stadler "walk on water" myth so prevalent on here. The lights degrading early would be just one more issue.

 

[Railguy1]

I’d get rid of the forward and backward facing seats. It encourages people to put their feet on the chairs. Having said that, the other day I saw two men sleeping across three seats each and they were also the seats for priority customers.

 

[Silent]

I’d get rid of the forward and backward facing seats. It encourages people to put their feet on the chairs. Having said that, the other day I saw two men sleeping across three seats each and they were also the seats for priority customers.

No it makes the s8’s more comfortable to sit on because you have the option to not have to face the person opposite of you.

 

[AM9]

No it makes the s8’s more comfortable to sit on because you have the option to not have to face the person opposite of you.

How does that option work when somebody sits opposite you?

 

[Silent]

Because it’s half transverse, half longitudinal. Less chance of awkward stares.

 

[FrontSideBus]

Because it’s half transverse, half longitudinal. Less chance of awkward stares.

I wonder how Londoners cope when they go up North where people actually engage in conversation with each other on public transport lol.

 

[Turtle]

I wonder how Londoners cope when they go up North where people actually engage in conversation with each other on public transport lol.

You sound like my wife when she first moved to London and found it strange that nobody said hello to her when she walked along Oxford St on Saturday mornings.