S Stock feels dated despite age

[A60stock]

When the 1972 stock is replaced, I think the Bakerloo Line customers won't believe their eyes.

That's a good one. I wonder if 72 stock to 24 stock (or equivalent of that), will be more transformational than anything.

Although I guess the biggest thing about this will be the fact that people will be shocked they're finally being replaced!

 

[Mikey C]

I agree, I think the 1962 to 1992 stock transition probably felt bigger, given the state of every other stock at the time. As I was saying, I think technologically, the 24 stock is one of the biggest transformations, perhaps up there with the S stock vs A Stock, but the 1992 stock probably wins it on general perception of the scale of change.

On a hot summer's day, entering a cool 2024 stock train will feel like far more of a step change over the other deep tube trains than the 1992 over the 1962 stock visual change! It's on the deep tube where temperatures are at their most uncomfortable.

The 92s were clearly a big leap forward over the 62, but the uncomfortable, low seating didn't necessarily make it a totally positive change.

 

[bramling]

Was there a step change felt between the 1967 and 2009 stocks?

Not really. The 09 stock offers rather better performance though, as well as designing out some of the limitations of the original pioneering ATO system. So what the passenger didn’t really get in terms of on-train experience they did gain from performance - faster journeys and massively enhanced frequency / capacity. Stockwell to King’s Cross reliably in under 15 minutes is pretty impressive, as is the 36tph.

 

[Mikey C]

Not really. The 09 stock offers rather better performance though, as well as designing out some of the limitations of the original pioneering ATO system. So what the passenger didn’t really get in terms of on-train experience they did gain from performance - faster journeys and massively enhanced frequency / capacity. Stockwell to King’s Cross reliably in under 15 minutes is pretty impressive, as is the 36tph.

As someone who's tall, the extra headroom in the 2009s is much appreciated too. It's really noticeable near the doors.

 

[generalnerd]

I must say, from a purely aesthetic point of view, that the primarily black fronted tube trains are really strange. The 1995/6 stocks hit the balance perfectly with the gentle amount of greyness but still a solid amount of red, but all the future sets are far to black.

It doesn’t affect the ride it just annoys me for no reason.

 

[Silent]

Recently I’ve appreciated the outer aesthetics of the s stock. The shorter Carriages look nice. And then it looks traditional but modern.

 

[announcements]

From the point of view of the passenger, I don’t really see the 24 stock as that much of a transformation. Walk-through isn’t that much of a benefit for most (in fact if anything it’s often a disbenefit in terms of comfort), so it’s only really air conditioning, which is only an issue in high summer. The trade-off for that is a restricted window setup, which may well make the trains feel somewhat claustrophobic.

If they'd have gone for the original "Evo" stock design from 2014, it would have looked far more transformational. The air conditioning is useful, though I can't see I've ever felt too hot on the Piccadilly line compared with riding the Victoria and Central lines; it's not something I've particularly ever craved on the Picc. However, as others have pointed out, it'll be all the "hidden in plain sight" stuff that'll make the big difference.

Was there a step change felt between the 1967 and 2009 stocks?

While the '09 stock wasn't walk through, I do remember it feeling like quite a change in terms of the sounds, lights and acceleration. Plus no more transverse seating!

 

[Silent]

If they'd have gone for the original "Evo" stock design from 2014, it would have looked far more transformational. The air conditioning is useful, though I can't see I've ever felt too hot on the Piccadilly line compared with riding the Victoria and Central lines; it's not something I've particularly ever craved on the Picc. However, as others have pointed out, it'll be all the "hidden in plain sight" stuff that'll make the big difference.


While the '09 stock wasn't walk through, I do remember it feeling like quite a change in terms of the sounds, lights and acceleration. Plus no more transverse seating!

I disagree that it would look more transformational

From the point of view of the passenger, I don’t really see the 24 stock as that much of a transformation. Walk-through isn’t that much of a benefit for most (in fact if anything it’s often a disbenefit in terms of comfort), so it’s only really air conditioning, which is only an issue in high summer. The trade-off for that is a restricted window setup, which may well make the trains feel somewhat claustrophobic.

Walk through is much safer though in terms of eliminating the chance of falling onto the tracks on the rare occasions that has happened. Looking at other stock for example, class 350 vs 730, I agree that walk through is less comfortable and even is slightly less sound insulation, which the tube doesn't prioritise anyways. However visually walk through carriages feel much more airier or spacious. I have thought the class 730's felt much bigger inside than a class 350 just because of better lighting and open ended carriages.

 

[announcements]

I disagree that it would look more transformational

I'm curious to know why? The Evo stock was unequivocally more out there / bold in terms of its exterior look, compared with the final 2024 product, which looks fairly conventional save for the futuristic front lighting. This is by no means a criticism of the '24, I just don't see how it looks more radical than the Evo concept.

 

[Silent]

I'm curious to know why? The Evo stock was unequivocally more out there / bold in terms of its exterior look, compared with the final 2024 product, which looks fairly conventional save for the futuristic front lighting. This is by no means a criticism of the '24, I just don't see how it looks more radical than the Evo concept.

The interior from what I remember just had a lot of white plastic that it looked a bit like trains that already existed and the exterior has a different front but the side almost looks like a 2009ts to me.

Looking at it again I do think the design looks more modern and less traditional than the 24ts but not necessarily better to me. And actually looks a lot like 95/6 stock internally but with less dark colours below the seats.

With the design of the 24 stock and the way car designs are going some part of me wouldn’t be surprised if they made future trains look like old trains but much more modernised

 

[FrontSideBus]

Be interesting to see how the aircon on the new units will affect the conditions on the platforms and tunnels. With all of that heat being extracted from the cabin and being dumped outside!

 

[Silent]

Be interesting to see how the aircon on the new units will affect the conditions on the platforms and tunnels. With all of that heat being extracted from the cabin and being dumped outside!

Apparently much more efficient that it doesn’t produce any more heat waste than the 73 stock with air cooling running. Let’s hope that this is correct and it isn’t like the 09 stock.

 

[MCR247]

Apparently much more efficient that it doesn’t produce any more heat waste than the 73 stock with air cooling running. Let’s hope that this is correct and it isn’t like the 09 stock.

Did the 09 stock make the Victoria Line platforms warmer than before their introduction?

 

[Silent]

Did the 09 stock make the Victoria Line platforms warmer than before their introduction?

I’m not sure but I know Victoria line is one of the warmest and I know there is a video clip that was saying it would have better ventilation which it doesn’t due to the fans just pumping warm air.

 

[Dstock7080]

Did the 09 stock make the Victoria Line platforms warmer than before their introduction?

Initially yes, when introduced and before the last ‘67 Stock was withdrawn the regenerative braking wasn’t able to be used, so the heat that emitted from the 09s, rheostatic brake etc, was very noticeable.
Once the regenerative was switched in they did become better, although now it isn’t so noticeable.

 

[AM9]

Initially yes, when introduced and before the last ‘67 Stock was withdrawn the regenerative braking wasn’t able to be used, so the heat that emitted from the 09s, rheostatic brake etc, was very noticeable.
Once the regenerative was switched in they did become better, although now it isn’t so noticeable.

Presumably the clay surrounding the Victoria Line tunnels has warmed and caught up with that on the Central Line. It's inevitable that all subterranean London is gradually getting warmer, - locally through high waste energy dissipated by infrastructure, and to a lesser level, by more and more concrete exposed to higher atmospheric temperatures.

 

[Recessio]

Be interesting to see how the aircon on the new units will affect the conditions on the platforms and tunnels. With all of that heat being extracted from the cabin and being dumped outside!

The new trains are so much more energy efficient than the old ones, that they are expected to give off less heat to the tunnels by default, or about the same heat as now with the AC running on full.

 

[Silent]

One thing I’ve just thought that might make the s stock dated. I’ve seen that the announcement sounds, door alarms can be described as too harsh. Something I’ve noticed they have tried to fix, at least with the door alarms of the 24 stock from videos I’ve seen.

I’ve thinking the harshness of certain aspects of the s stock are kind of a product of the time it launched as I think there was a shift from standard definition tv’s to hd tv’s, digital stuff in mainstream society was seen as new and upcoming. I think the ultra clear but maybe overly loud or sharp announcements and door alarm sounds were to try and make the train feel more modern at the time.

 

[A60stock]

Surely that's a simple fix, just turn down the volume of both the announcements and the door chimes. The door chimes seem to be as loud as any other stock though

 

[Silent]

Surely that's a simple fix, just turn down the volume of both the announcements and the door chimes. The door chimes seem to be as loud as any other stock though

I don’t think it’s about loudness also probably frequency. Although it’s audio it has a skeumopic aesthetic to me a bit. When I had heard the 24ts door beeps it almost sounds like white noise might have been added to make the door chime sound more smoother and natural in a way.

 

[rebmcr]

I don’t think it’s about loudness also probably frequency. Although it’s audio it has a skeumopic aesthetic to me a bit. When I had heard the 24ts door beeps it almost sounds like white noise might have been added to make the door chime sound more smoother and natural in a way.

White noise is added to reversing beepers on large road vehicles, it's been researched to be easier for the human ear to locate, rather than an all-penetrating pure tone. Wouldn't surprise me if the same technique is applied here.

 

[announcements]

I’ve thinking the harshness of certain aspects of the s stock are kind of a product of the time it launched as I think there was a shift from standard definition tv’s to hd tv’s, digital stuff in mainstream society was seen as new and upcoming. I think the ultra clear but maybe overly loud or sharp announcements and door alarm sounds were to try and make the train feel more modern at the time.

I don't know if it was all done intentionally, but certainly very little effort appears to had been made to soften these aspects. Ditto the '09 stock. Whereas I enjoy travelling on the Bakerloo line with it's softer, cosier feel; by contrast the S stock feels plasticy and unresting. The '92 stock has its issues, but the Emma announcements / speaker quality somehow is soothing and easy - probably the most successful among the LU onboard announcements, compared to the shouty S stock.

 

[A60stock]

I would add to that, I think the 73 stock announcements are one of the best, striking the best balance between softness and clarity, giving a natural sort of tone to it. I will miss them when they are gone and I pray that the announcements on the 24 stock take inspiration and note of this.

 

[RacsoMoquette]

I would add to that, I think the 73 stock announcements are one of the best, striking the best balance between softness and clarity, giving a natural sort of tone to it. I will miss them when they are gone and I pray that the announcements on the 24 stock take inspiration and note of this.

I have recently started taking the Central Line from Epping into central London and the 1992TS are still very pleasant trains to ride in, the interior albeit dated and grubby, the trains are quick and rather more comfortable than the 1995/6TS due to their less jolty ATO system. The ATO on the Central Line is rather more refined and smooth than the latter Seltrac examples on the Northern and Jubilee. I do agree the Emma Clarke announcements on the Bakerloo and Central are soft and non intrusive. Probably one of the best and longest serving recordings on the Undeground. However Celia Drummond on the Northern Line is also extremely good and restful.

I don't know if it was all done intentionally, but certainly very little effort appears to had been made to soften these aspects. Ditto the '09 stock. Whereas I enjoy travelling on the Bakerloo line with it's softer, cosier feel; by contrast the S stock feels plasticy and unresting. The '92 stock has its issues, but the Emma announcements / speaker quality somehow is soothing and easy - probably the most successful among the LU onboard announcements, compared to the shouty S stock.

 

[Silent]

I have recently started taking the Central Line from Epping into central London and the 1992TS are still very pleasant trains to ride in, the interior albeit dated and grubby, the trains are quick and rather more comfortable than the 1995/6TS due to their less jolty ATO system. The ATO on the Central Line is rather more refined and smooth than the latter Seltrac examples on the Northern and Jubilee. I do agree the Emma Clarke announcements on the Bakerloo and Central are soft and non intrusive. Probably one of the best and longest serving recordings on the Undeground. However Celia Drummond on the Northern Line is also extremely good and restful.

Seat wise I think the shape of 1995/6 stock will always be more comfortable than the overly low seats of the 1992 stock. However the perch seats on 1992 stock are more comfortable because of the wide doors. I feel like 95/6 stock are less modern than the 92 stock in certain aspects as their door width is more similar to 73/72 stocks whereas 92 has wider doors like newer tube stock. Also the less angled seats on 92 stock are more like newer stock such as s stock and 24ts, less comfortable I think, but adds more floor space I think.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Dec 2025 ==

Something I notice about the 1996 stock and probably more the 95 stock, because it’s more grimy, is that either the material or the paint above the interior panels look outdated compared to the s-stock, not just the yellowing of the paint/material but the texture and finish to it.

 

[Silent]

Would you find s-stocks traction noise outdated? I know in contrast to the s stock the 96's overly loud traction sounds interesting but really outdated for being a bit ott and loud and rumbly. But DC motors sound old because they are associated with old trains but don't exactly sound outdated to me, they just sound like an old train motor.

 

[bramling]

Would you find s-stocks traction noise outdated? I know in contrast to the s stock the 96's overly loud traction sounds interesting but really outdated for being a bit ott and loud and rumbly. But DC motors sound old because they are associated with old trains but don't exactly sound outdated to me, they just sound like an old train motor.

What people might notice a bit is that the 73 and especially 72 stocks are a bit jerkier when pulling away due to the camshaft controls, whereas a more modern train will be smoother - or at least it would be until there’s then a TBTC-type signalling system fitted and then the ATO throws you around instead!

I’m not sure to what extent the average passenger really notices traction noise though. Many passengers will be sitting in trailer cars in any case, except on those fleets where the whole train is motored.

 

[Silent]

Yep the feel and smell (I think 72ts has a burnt smell sometimes) of dc motored stock feels ancient. I’m pretty sure the 96ts traction stands out.

 

[bramling]

Yep the feel and smell (I think 72ts has a burnt smell sometimes) of dc motored stock feels ancient. I’m pretty sure the 96ts traction stands out.

Most smells come from braking. More modern stock can do this as well - 95 & 96 stocks for sure. Though interestingly it seems less common on more recent trains, and that applies to mainline trains as well.

Something like a 365 could produce some noticeable smells under heavy braking, yet this is very rare on Electrostars, even in the autumn.

 

[AM9]

Most smells come from braking. More modern stock can do this as well - 95 & 96 stocks for sure. Though interestingly it seems less common on more recent trains, and that applies to mainline trains as well.

Something like a 365 could produce some noticeable smells under heavy braking, yet this is very rare on Electrostars, even in the autumn.

That might be attributed to the steadily increasing use of regen that is fed back to the supply rather than wasting it by heating a lot of underfloor resistors.