S Stock feels dated despite age

[Bletchleyite]

Then as many of the S stock units spend more time in the open,, sometimes dipping in and out of tunnels, daylight temperature would be considered the most appropriate colour for their lighting.

Daylight temperature is better known as "cloudy rainy day colour" and is not appropriate to anything other than a colour laboratory. Trains need a warm and welcoming lighting colour.

 

[Babybirdrobin]

Personally I disagree with this, I feel like they’ve aged really well and are actually comfortable (something that to me some NR stock needs to learn a lesson from), yes they may be a bit tatty in places but they still feel like a mix of ‘new’ and ‘happily bedded in‘.

 

[FrontSideBus]

Put it this way, I ride on them and think why the hell couldn't we have gotten a derivative instead of the 777's that were were lumbered with!

 

[Silent]

Personally I disagree with this, I feel like they’ve aged really well and are actually comfortable (something that to me some NR stock needs to learn a lesson from), yes they may be a bit tatty in places but they still feel like a mix of ‘new’ and ‘happily bedded in‘.

True, it's not even that it's really comfortable to me but more that it's visually comfortable, more than other modern tube stock because of the colours used and I guess the HVAC

 

[FrontSideBus]

Visually comfortable is why I really like the 345's. It's mixture of indirect lighting and downward firing spots combined with the colour temp used creats a nice and warm atmosphere. Quite a pleasant place to be IMO.

One thing I did notice on the S stock though, is that they use high efficiency T5 lamps which are quite long and thin. They are supported in the middle by plastic clips but some have broken off and vibrations cause the lamps to visibly deflected by quite a lot in the middle! It's amazing that they don't shatter as you'd not expect glass to be that flexible!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I've gone with this as an example as the stock share a lot of similarities with the S-Stock and had a similar existing P.I.S before their respective refurbs.

That's not really a surprise as the C20s are part of the Movia design family, are they not?

 

[Mikey C]

The S stock has an excellent interior. Well designed, and tasteful.

 

[generalnerd]

Joining in late, but I’ve always thought of them as looking very modern despite the fact they’ve been inservice for around 10 years now

 

[A60stock]

The S8s have been in service for 14-15 years now. The S7s are anything between 8-13 years.

The S8s exteriors generally look slightly less "shiny" compared to the S7s, especially those which entered service later on. Pretty sure some of the S7s were entering service in 2017.

 

[AM9]

The S8s have been in service for 14-15 years now. The S7s are anything between 8-13 years.

The S8s exteriors generally look slightly less "shiny" compared to the S7s, especially those which entered service later on. Pretty sure some of the S7s were entering service in 2017.

Maybe that's because they spen a lot more time exposed to the elements.

 

[Russel]

The S8s have been in service for 14-15 years now. The S7s are anything between 8-13 years.

The S8s exteriors generally look slightly less "shiny" compared to the S7s, especially those which entered service later on. Pretty sure some of the S7s were entering service in 2017.

Both fleets seem to be suffering from yellowing of the white paint.

 

[A60stock]

The Metropolitan line may be outside for much of the journey but I'm pretty sure the other lines are also exposed to the elements almost just as much

 

[Old Walter]

Been reading the thread and my two pence worth is “nah”. Being a Liz line user every day and seeing the similarities with another Bombardier train which is a bit newer seems to bed the S stock down a bit. Plus the 1990s 73 stock refurb still looks fitting and not out of place these days, comparing this to the S stock the latter still feels very new.

Only thing that sways it is the worn seats and the odd missing light but for me S stock doesn’t feel very old.

Compare this with me riding D stock trains in the mid 1990s, same age as the S8 Met trains now but they felt ancient! The garish orange doors, wooden floors and bus style seating moquette, S stock have done a much better job of defying time.

 

[vuzzeho]

I love the S stock, but I think they do come across a bit dated in my opinion. Part of that is the general wear and tear on seats and stuff, but I think personally it comes down to a few small details - the light tubes (forgot the name) instead of LEDs is one of them. I don't care too much about the light temperature. It's nice. Another thing is the wall panels - they look somewhat yellow/cream which gives it a bit of a dated feeling. The floor colour kinda also gives it a somewhat dated feel (and shows dirt!). Honestly, it's nothing that couldn't be done in a light refurb. That's not to say the S stock feels old - they still feel quite modern and comfortable. But they feel dated, especially compared to things that came after, like the 345s, and 710s. I feel the same way about the 378s.

 

[Man of Kent]

A tender has been issued for new seating

S STOCK SALOON SEATS NEW DESIGN - Find a Tender

www.find-tender.service.gov.uk

(which won't reproduce in a sensible format to attach here)

 

[Peter Mugridge]

(which won't reproduce in a sensible format to attach here)

I've managed it; basic copy and paste - I've removed a live e-address that was in it. Not sure why the heading "reference" quoted separately though.

Reference

WS2440522969

Description​

TfL invites suppliers to participate in this Preliminary Market Engagement exercise to help shape an upcoming procurement opportunity. This is a valuable chance to engage with us early, gain insight into our requirements, and contribute your expertise.
A new requirement for the S Stock fleet which consists of two fleet types, S8 fleet and S7 fleet. The S8 fleet serves only the Metropolitan line. The S7 fleet serves the Circle, District and Hammersmith & City lines.
The Scope of Work (SoW) is to overhaul the saloon passenger seating cushions, Tip-up assembly and armrest pads which is to be delivered as part of the S Stock passenger seating overhaul scope.
To meet the current overhaul periodicity, the seat and backrest cushions (all seat types) require a new design. The new design will be designed and manufactured by a seat manufacturer implementing TfL requirements.

Total value (estimated)​

• £5,000,000 excluding VAT
• £6,000,000 including VAT

Above the relevant threshold

Contract dates (estimated)​

• 29 June 2026 to 28 June 2029
• Possible extension to 28 June 2030
• 4 years

Main procurement category​

Goods

CPV classifications​

• 33193223 - Wheelchair seats
• 34360000 - Seats for civil aircraft
• 34631300 - Rolling-stock seats
• 39110000 - Seats, chairs and related products, and associated parts
• 50224100 - Reconditioning services of rolling stock seats

Contract locations​

• UKI - London

---

EngagementEngagement​

Engagement deadline​

15 May 2025

Engagement process description​

A supplier event will be held in due course. Interested organisations are advised to express their interest in attending the event, please contact

This activity is focusing on the market, rather than the merits of individual suppliers. It includes no element of supplier selection or bid evaluation. There is no commitment of any kind inferred by either party.

---

ParticipationParticipation​

Particular suitability​

Small and medium-sized enterprises (SME)

---

SubmissionSubmission​

Publication date of tender notice (estimated)​

8 July 2025

---

ProcedureProcedure​

Special regime​

Utilities

---

Contracting authorityContracting authority​

London Underground Limited​

• Companies House: 01900907
• Public Procurement Organisation Number: PWJB-7544-VZCL

5 Endeavour Square
London
E20 1JN
United Kingdom

Region: UKI41 - Hackney and Newham
Organisation type: Public undertaking (commercial organisation subject to public authority oversight)

---

Other organisationOther organisation​

These organisations are carrying out the procurement, or part of it, on behalf of the contracting authorities.

Transport for London​

Summary of their role in this procurement: Procuring on behalf of London Underground Limited

• Public Procurement Organisation Number: PHMT-6197-NWNZ

5 Endeavour Square
London
E20 1JN
United Kingdom

 

[Thirteen]

The moquette is fine, it just looks threadbare.

 

[Mikey C]

Sadly the new seating will probably mean harder, way less comfortable seating. Like when the seats on the 95s were replaced.

 

[100andthirty]

I've managed it; basic copy and paste - I've removed a live e-address that was in it. Not sure why the heading "reference" quoted separately though.

​

I think the estimated price is wrong if the £5 M and £6 M were intended to be a range. If intended to be something like a cost per fleet, it's at the bottom end of the likely cost. My estimate based on a fleet total of roughly 54,000 seats is around £15 M. That doesn't include the cost of removing old seats, installing new seats and any necessary repairs found during the work.

 

[rebmcr]

if the £5 M and £6 M were intended to be a range.

They are very clearly the same figure, simply with and without VAT.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

My estimate based on a fleet total of roughly 54,000 seats is around £15 M. That doesn't include the cost of removing old seats, installing new seats and any necessary repairs found during the work.

Could it simply be replacing the seat covers within the existing seat frames, despite the wording?

 

[100andthirty]

They are very clearly the same figure, simply with and without VAT.

Must check glasses! Seriously, I still think the estimated value is far too low at circa £92 per seat.

 

[sh24]

Sounds like fabric only at that price.

 

[announcements]

More "so Circle Line", as the grab poles on underground trains match the colour of the line they operate on. Of course, there is a problem with the S stock, as it is used on 4 different lines, so short of having different colours throughout the carriages, or each pole having coloured stripes, the theme cannot be continued consistently.

To be fair, the S8 stock could have had purple poles/bars, given it is exclusive to the Met.

 

[philthetube]

The S8s exteriors generally look slightly less "shiny" compared to the S7s, especially those which entered service later on. Pretty sure some of the S7s were entering service in 2017.

Chemicals used to remove graffiti causes loss of shine.

 

[Zb0905]

When will the s stock be retired

 

[AM9]

When will the s stock be retired

Maybe 2040

 

[Silent]

Maybe 2040

That actually sounds too early, given how well they seem to work and the standardisation given to the network they work in. I would say 2050.

1992 stock itself is 32 years old and I’m sure s stock are seen to be better built.

 

[Zb0905]

When will the pic 1973 be fully withdrawn

 

[Mikey C]

That actually sounds too early, given how well they seem to work and the standardisation given to the network they work in. I would say 2050.

1992 stock itself is 32 years old and I’m sure s stock are seen to be better built.

2050 itself would be the earliest date, unless technology really moves forward. By that stage they'll only be 40 years old, and unlike older tube stock, already with air conditioning. The 2009 stock, as the last non aircon stock, will look really out of place by 2050, assuming the 95s and 96s are replaced by 2040.