Revenue Inspectors

[BestWestern]

As I understand on TFL buses, and presumably also on rail, the RPI's reader will send the card details to the central control. If control sees that it had been touched in for that journey that is fine - if not the card will be charged for the maximum fare for the journey, and it could presumably be set to charge a penalty fare where appropriate.

That sounds very complex, and potentially fraught with issues. Aren't through tickets permitted on London buses now, for example? It would need to be quite some set-up to be able to identify that a card used on a different bus somewhere else was still valid on another specific vehicle. The same would apply for buses turning short etc. Is that definitely factual and not just a theory?

 

[pompeyfan]

I know for railways that the passenger has two strikes and their payment method gets hotlisted.
Basically the RID can tell if the card has been tapped in, if it has, hunky dorey, if it has not, it will count it as a strike, but the operator will not know any different.

 

[plymothian]

That sounds very complex, and potentially fraught with issues. Aren't through tickets permitted on London buses now, for example? It would need to be quite some set-up to be able to identify that a card used on a different bus somewhere else was still valid on another specific vehicle. The same would apply for buses turning short etc. Is that definitely factual and not just a theory?

No, because you still must touch in on every bus you board regardless of if you are within the hour's hopper period, so a touch in will still be flagged.

 

[cjmillsnun]

I know for railways that the passenger has two strikes and their payment method gets hotlisted.
Basically the RID can tell if the card has been tapped in, if it has, hunky dorey, if it has not, it will count it as a strike, but the operator will not know any different.

The RID can’t tell but when the details are uploaded into TfL’s database at the end of the day things can be checked.

 

[winks]

Overground are pretty frequent with their ticket checks (even on weekends) a guy walks through with a rucksack and you don’t even realise he’s there.

SWR is hit and miss. Althougv have seen revenue on Exeter to London trains.
Almost unheard of - under SWT there was a RPI stationed between platforms - checking to see if passengers had a ticket for onward travel...he was plainclothed and showed an ID card within his wallet! A lot of people carried on walking past him though....

Southern would always check between Pompey and Chichester!

 

[BestWestern]

No, because you still must touch in on every bus you board regardless of if you are within the hour's hopper period, so a touch in will still be flagged.

Ah of course! What about in the instance of a previous bus 'turning short'? Or don't they do that any more?

 

[aylesbury]

Friend of mine did this on Chiltern and had a few ,he retired to Cornwall lucky man..nasty experiences but overall he said that most people moaned a bit and paid up.He was punched a few times and had a broken arm but this person was taken to court and fined heavily.He retired to Cornwall and reportedly is enjoying it.

 

[Mojo]

Ah of course! What about in the instance of a previous bus 'turning short'? Or don't they do that any more?

The same procedure as always still applies, that a customer is to request a Transfer voucher from the driver. Of course, with the majority of customers being in possession of a Travelcard/Bus Pass or other type of multi-ride ticket, and I would estimate a huge majority of the remainder being well-within the timeframe for a "free" ride on the hopper, the number of customers requiring/requesting one would be even less than it used to be!

 

[James James]

I might be in the small minority who isn't a fan of the inspectors in the UK.

Back in the day I had a Young Person's railcard, and a Visa electron debit card, travelling from stations without barriers. The former required me to buy my ticket at the station, unless it was unstaffed. The latter card didn't work with the ticket machines of the time. Those machines also didn't take cash - in effect I couldn't buy a ticket at the machine, and the ticket office was closed (it was just after opening time, but no sign of an employee).

So I got on the train, and asked the ticket inspector for a ticket with the railcard. They told me it wasn't valid on the train, and I should've bought a ticket at the station. I explained the ticket office was closed and my card didn't work in the machine, an elderly couple sitting opposite confirmed my version of events - inspector wouldn't budge, I had to pay full price (in hindsight I should've tried to use my debit card, perhaps then he would've believed me). Anyhow, on another shorter trip I once again couldn't buy a ticket due to the same circumstances, but no one checked my tickets, so in the end I managed to get even.

To be fair, the Uk does also have the most complex ticketing system I've ever experienced, can't be easy to deal with from their side.

 

[matt_world2004]

Ah of course! What about in the instance of a previous bus 'turning short'? Or don't they do that any more?

You get a transfer ticket or your supposed to and you hand that to the driver. In reality what happens is the driver will inform the revenue inspector that a previous bus jas run short and he wont scan the cards who were on it. Problematic.

 

[LowLevel]

I might be in the small minority who isn't a fan of the inspectors in the UK.

Back in the day I had a Young Person's railcard, and a Visa electron debit card, travelling from stations without barriers. The former required me to buy my ticket at the station, unless it was unstaffed. The latter card didn't work with the ticket machines of the time. Those machines also didn't take cash - in effect I couldn't buy a ticket at the machine, and the ticket office was closed (it was just after opening time, but no sign of an employee).

So I got on the train, and asked the ticket inspector for a ticket with the railcard. They told me it wasn't valid on the train, and I should've bought a ticket at the station. I explained the ticket office was closed and my card didn't work in the machine, an elderly couple sitting opposite confirmed my version of events - inspector wouldn't budge, I had to pay full price (in hindsight I should've tried to use my debit card, perhaps then he would've believed me). Anyhow, on another shorter trip I once again couldn't buy a ticket due to the same circumstances, but no one checked my tickets, so in the end I managed to get even.

To be fair, the Uk does also have the most complex ticketing system I've ever experienced, can't be easy to deal with from their side.

Visa Electron cards were also not (meant to be - some folk just took them anyway and risked a telling off if they bounced) valid on board trains which might not have helped matters. Offline cards such as those only became accepted in the last year or two when the new generation of machines were introduced.

If you were unlucky enough to have a Visa Electron the railway's position was that it was a) your problem and tough luck - get another account or b) pay cash or postal order (we are going back a bit!).

It was a rather unfriendly system all round and one I can sympathise with - I also had to carry cash to pay until I finally got a proper debit card!

In any case one miserable inspector does not the breed define - plenty of us are lovely (though some aren't!).

 

[Mojo]

Visa Electron cards were also not (meant to be - some folk just took them anyway and risked a telling off if they bounced) valid on board trains which might not have helped matters. Offline cards such as those only became accepted in the last year or two when the new generation of machines were introduced.

If you were unlucky enough to have a Visa Electron the railway's position was that it was a) your problem and tough luck - get another account or b) pay cash or postal order (we are going back a bit!).

I think the problem the poster was referring to is that /some/ Tocs accepted Electron at their staffed ticket offices however when the ticket office was closed (unexpectedly?) the customer could not otherwise make payment.

I had a problem on Chiltern Railways back in 2006; after Chip & Pin was brought in but before they replaced Aptis, a workaround was introduced whereby they used a standalone credit card machine (like the ones you see in small shops, separate from the checkout where the operator types in the amount chargeable). The side effect of this was that they started accepting Electron, but only at the ticket office, and this was advertised as such. One day I turned up at Haddenham/Thame Parkway and the ticket office during published opening hours was unexpectedly closed. When the guard came round she couldn’t process my payment as I only had Electron and limited cash, and I couldn’t use card either at my destination as back then Solihull was managed by Central Trains who, in common with other Tocs didn’t take Electron. IIRC, I withdrew from a Cashpoint at the station.

 

[Antman]

I might be in the small minority who isn't a fan of the inspectors in the UK.

Back in the day I had a Young Person's railcard, and a Visa electron debit card, travelling from stations without barriers. The former required me to buy my ticket at the station, unless it was unstaffed. The latter card didn't work with the ticket machines of the time. Those machines also didn't take cash - in effect I couldn't buy a ticket at the machine, and the ticket office was closed (it was just after opening time, but no sign of an employee).

So I got on the train, and asked the ticket inspector for a ticket with the railcard. They told me it wasn't valid on the train, and I should've bought a ticket at the station. I explained the ticket office was closed and my card didn't work in the machine, an elderly couple sitting opposite confirmed my version of events - inspector wouldn't budge, I had to pay full price (in hindsight I should've tried to use my debit card, perhaps then he would've believed me). Anyhow, on another shorter trip I once again couldn't buy a ticket due to the same circumstances, but no one checked my tickets, so in the end I managed to get even.

To be fair, the Uk does also have the most complex ticketing system I've ever experienced, can't be easy to deal with from their side.

That is appalling, clearly you shouldn't have to pay extra because you were unable to buy your ticket at the station and I would have refused to pay the full fare.

 

[Antman]

Friend of mine did this on Chiltern and had a few ,he retired to Cornwall lucky man..nasty experiences but overall he said that most people moaned a bit and paid up.He was punched a few times and had a broken arm but this person was taken to court and fined heavily.He retired to Cornwall and reportedly is enjoying it.

Fined heavily? I would have thought a custodial sentence would be appropriate? I've given a revenue inspector a piece of my mind before but physical assault is totally unacceptable.

 

[stut]

As above, that's a RID. It doesn't confirm if a card has been touched in; revenue staff are not permitted to track the usage of contactless cards, only see whether it is authorised for travel or not.

How does it work with PAYG ITSO cards like KeyGo?

There's an ongoing issue, for example, with one of the card readers at Biggleswade, which is an unbarriered station. You can tap in, get a beep and a "journey started" message, but it doesn't register. The next day, it appears on your account as an incomplete journey, or as autofill.

However, when this happens on the outbound journey, the card still opens the barriers at the destination.

What would an inspector see in this case?