Reports that HS2 Euston terminus may be delayed/cancelled

[lumitumey12345]

Hard to see this country in anything other than (badly) managed decline.

Indeed

 

[zwk500]

I don't believe it will happen!

Importantly, the contract for the tunnels has been let:

HS2 agrees £78m variation on Euston tunnels cost

Skanska Costain Strabag seals extra payment for agreed changes to the scope of work

www.constructionenquirer.com

So cancelling it now will incur penalties, which usually tend to be more expensive than simply finishing the job.

 

[Facing Back]

No, but there is at least a set of engineering drawings for it.

And they have already demolished my favourite pub, the Bree Louise, for the station extension. The least that they can do now is to build the bloody thing

 

[adamedwards]

Whist we are at it we could close St Pancras and run Eurostar from Stratford, close Kings Cross and run LNER from Finsbury Park, then sell the termini for building land and people can make a killing on tax evading investments in Gibraltar. Stupid plan from an out of ideas government that needs to go.

 

[the sniper]

Whist we are at it we could close St Pancras and run Eurostar from Stratford, close Kings Cross and run LNER from Finsbury Park, then sell the termini for building land and people can make a killing on tax evading investments in Gibraltar. Stupid plan from an out of ideas government that needs to go.

Don't give them anymore ideas!

 

[zwk500]

Whist we are at it we could close St Pancras and run Eurostar from Stratford, close Kings Cross and run LNER from Finsbury Park, then sell the termini for building land and people can make a killing on tax evading investments in Gibraltar. Stupid plan from an out of ideas government that needs to go.

I believe that was tried once, and I have a friend who doesn't let me forget it!

 

[fishwomp]

There's no track from HS2 to Paddington. It would be an act of lunacy to pull Euston now considering how much has already been done

There's no track on HS2 at all.. That's why they're building a railway!

If there were capacity (and there isn't) Paddington would be just as good a place to terminate as Euston - slightly better tube connection (and crossrail of course).

 

[Facing Back]

Importantly, the contract for the tunnels has been let:

HS2 agrees £78m variation on Euston tunnels cost

Skanska Costain Strabag seals extra payment for agreed changes to the scope of work

www.constructionenquirer.com

So cancelling it now will incur penalties, which usually tend to be more expensive than simply finishing the job.

This is true. And the land is bought and the demolition work mostly complete and the tunnel boring machines commissioned. I am sure that there are a few billion to be saved by not building it even after compensation for lost profit - but it is a lot of money sunk for no benefit if that was to happen

 

[MadCommuter]

Importantly, the contract for the tunnels has been let:

HS2 agrees £78m variation on Euston tunnels cost

Skanska Costain Strabag seals extra payment for agreed changes to the scope of work

www.constructionenquirer.com

So cancelling it now will incur penalties, which usually tend to be more expensive than simply finishing the job.

It will depend on the contract. But there will be a whole load of materials that won't be needed which will be significant savings.

 

[Wolfie]

And they have already demolished my favourite pub, the Bree Louise, for the station extension. The least that they can do now is to build the bloody thing

Abso - bloody - lately. The loss of the Bree was the biggest negative associated with HS2.

 

[JonathanH]

I am sure that there are a few billion to be saved by not building it even after compensation for lost profit - but it is a lot of money sunk for no benefit if that was to happen

A challenge with delaying the work is whether construction inflation would actually outpace the availability of tax income.

 

[zwk500]

There's no track on HS2 at all.. That's why they're building a railway!

OK, no route intended for it. I think people know what I meant.

If there were capacity (and there isn't) Paddington would be just as good a place to terminate as Euston - slightly better tube connection (and crossrail of course).

No it wouldn't, Paddington is much further out from central London. Paddington's not even particularly close to the West End. Euston is right next door to the Kings X/St Pancras complex and the tube connections are resolvable. It's only crossrail Paddington outranks it on and OOC solves that.

 

[matt_world2004]

I don't think old oak has the capacity to take the amount of passengers there would be by terminating at old oak common. The Elizabeth line would be screwed to Farringdon if that happened.

 

[Facing Back]

I don't think old oak has the capacity to take the amount of passengers there would be by terminating at old oak common. The Elizabeth line would be screwed to Farringdon if that happened.

They could make old oak common bigger - more platforms - almost as if it was a terminus station. And they can build 2 more tunnels on the elizabeth line to cope with the extra capacity. And because we need extra trains on the Liz Line we can run the HS2 trains on the new tunnels.

... oh hold on a minute ...

 

[JonathanH]

I don't think old oak has the capacity to take the amount of passengers there would be by terminating at old oak common. The Elizabeth line would be screwed to Farringdon if that happened.

Old Oak Common is already expected to be the terminus for something like three years, so it will have to take those passengers for a while.

 

[Facing Back]

A challenge with delaying the work is whether construction inflation would actually outpace the availability of tax income.

We can have a conversation about net present value and various equivalents in the real pricing of projects but if inflation is greater than bond yields the real cost will increase.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Jan 2023 ==

Old Oak Common is already expected to be the terminus for something like three years, so it will have to take those passengers for a while.

with only phase 1 traffic from birmingham and much reduced frequency as I recall

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Jan 2023 ==

Abso - bloody - lately. The loss of the Bree was the biggest negative associated with HS2.

We held a vigil. There was a lot of real ale involved.

 

[DC1989]

Is there *anything* this government can do right?

 

[Techniquest]

I will absolutely be going Euston.

Likewise! I'll also use OOC for HS2 journeys, depending on my actual journey on the occasion, but Euston would be used more I suspect for my purposes.

As for not building HS2 to London, oh come on yeah right. There's no way it won't happen. Maybe not straight away, but that was always to be the case. I really can't see what benefit they'd have if they cancelled everything with HS2 OOC-Euston now.

It must be tempting, given the financial situation, but to not build it now would appear to be like running a marathon and deciding that the final 2 miles don't matter and give up on it (this being of course assuming the body is capable of doing the full thing). I'm sure there's better analogies out there!

 

[brad465]

All those elsewhere on the internet and sometimes interviewed by the media on rail strike days who say "bring on automation" should look no further than this debacle to see that their "simple solution" to train strikes is not as simple/likely as they like to think.

 

[Peter Sarf]

The only attraction I can see is that this would send a clear message to those up North missing Phase 2 that London is also just as "important" as the North of the UK .

I can see changing at OOC would be bearable for me - more weather proof that walking from Euston to/from StPancras Thameslink platforms. But really ? - dropping Euston would be madness.

 

[jon0844]

Don't give them anymore ideas!

They could follow the Ryanair approach and rename Curzon Street to London Curzon Street. Then you don't need any line at all.

 

[YorksLad12]

Not content with being the laughing stock of Europe, now they want to build a line to London that doesn't go to London...

EasyTrain - taking you from London (Old Oak Common) to Manchester (Airport, maybe, but probably only Birmingham).

There's a lot to be unpicked here, and the Government not denying anything probably means they don't know themselves. Having just been involved in some projects that have been delayed because of inflation and other cost increases (not railway) it makes sense to keep checking the finances. This is a £33bn* project, remember...

 

[158756]

The only attraction I can see is that this would send a clear message to those up North missing Phase 2 that London is also just as "important" as the North of the UK .

I can see changing at OOC would be bearable for me - more weather proof that walking from Euston to/from StPancras Thameslink platforms. But really ? - dropping Euston would be madness.

More realistically, the link to Euston will eventually be built, with the money saved by cancelling everything north of Birmingham, as has always been the likely outcome of the project.

 

[kristiang85]

And they have already demolished my favourite pub, the Bree Louise, for the station extension. The least that they can do now is to build the bloody thing

I was going to post this ... I miss that place!

 

[45669]

OOC is going to have 6 platforms for HS2, and they've already dug the hole that big...

If you're going to various parts of Southern England then continuing to Euston and either getting the Victoria line or Thameslink is going to be more attractive than changing onto Crossrail and changing again. Especially if they tart up Phoenix way.

As I live in Hampshire, Euston would be better for me because of the direct Northern Line connection between Euston and Waterloo. But if I lived in Essex, the direct Elizabeth Line connection from Old Oak to Liverpool Street would be boon. So Old Oak vs Euston depends on the passenger's final destination.

If the line does get built to Euston, it will interesting to see how many people are still on the train when it gets there when compared with the number that got off at Old Oak.

 

[brad465]

The only attraction I can see is that this would send a clear message to those up North missing Phase 2 that London is also just as "important" as the North of the UK .

I can see changing at OOC would be bearable for me - more weather proof that walking from Euston to/from StPancras Thameslink platforms. But really ? - dropping Euston would be madness.

I'd be surprised if that was the end of the cutbacks: if I had to punt on how this would end, I'd say OOC-Birmingham only.

 

[OrangeJuice]

Could this not all be about the fact that Old Oak common will open first and the tunnels to Euston will take longer to be finished as was the initial plan.

Therefore this may just be the headline grabbing media proclaiming it's (HS2) all delayed and doomed and a waste of money. Trains to terminate at OOC whilst Euston is finished as 'delayed'?

 

[zwk500]

As I live in Hampshire, Euston would be better for me because of the direct Northern Line connection between Euston and Waterloo. But if I lived in Essex, the direct Elizabeth Line connection from Old Oak to Liverpool Street would be boon. So Old Oak vs Euston depends on the passenger's final destination.

If the line does get built to Euston, it will interesting to see how many people are still on the train when it gets there when compared with the number that got off at Old Oak.

Indeed, and this connectivity is very helpful for spreading the load across both stations. Broadly, traffic heading north or south of London will head for Euston with King's Cross/St Pancras and Thameslink, whilst traffic heading for east or west of London will head for OOC and Crossrail.

 

[Facing Back]

Could this not all be about the fact that Old Oak common will open first and the tunnels to Euston will take longer to be finished as was the initial plan.

Therefore this may just be the headline grabbing media proclaiming it's (HS2) all delayed and doomed and a waste of money. Trains to terminate at OOC whilst Euston is finished as 'delayed'?

This is all from an article in the Sun. I'm sure the journalism is sound.

 

[JonathanH]

Could this not all be about the fact that Old Oak common will open first and the tunnels to Euston will take longer to be finished as was the initial plan.

Therefore this may just be the headline grabbing media proclaiming it's (HS2) all delayed and doomed and a waste of money. Trains to terminate at OOC whilst Euston is finished as 'delayed'?

That has always been the case. OOC opened first with an initial limited service to Birmingham between 2029 and 2031, then some more services from OOC, and then a full service from Euston.

What is being reported is that instead of Euston opening in 2033, it is deferred to 2038.