The UK doesn’t have quite the same strict delineation between types of train. To some extent a regional train is defined by what it isn’t. The old BR Regional Railways was the stuff that wasn’t InterCity (the London to Manchester etc.) or Network Southeast (get lots of people into London).
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Releasing Unoccupied Reserved Seats
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As you have possibly gathered, the UK is slightly different from regional Queensland!
That I can understand, but fining someone for sitting in the unreserved coach instead of their booked seat is too harsh.
What if the booked seat is in a noisy coach? Or if you were assigned the wrong preferences when booking (ie you got an aisle seat with no window view)?
If you get lucky with an 11 car Pendolino showing up you have the choice of three unreserved coaches, think I'd much rather go there in the above circumstances.
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Don’t worry I don’t think you should be fined for not sitting in your booked seat, was more a counter point to the commenter!
Mine was too!
This suggestion is completely inappropriate for the intensely used UK network. All this would to is turn away revenue and make the railway unusable for many.
And how many people would react well to being told they were going to have to wait for a coach instead of stand? I suspect very very few.
No, that's an insane suggestion. Regional trains stop frequently, serving minor towns and villages. Who is going to bother with a seat reservation for a five minute journey?
If I choose to stand rather than wait, why shouldn't I?
How? Those trains will be fully-booked. It's a choice between standing and refunding. Using road coaches is a daft idea, you can't magic up a dozen coaches at short notice. Even if you had them ready to go, they'll take four-and-a-half hours to get from London to Manchester, compared with a little over two hours by train.
If I want to travel today, I want to travel today. This is not how you win and retain customers, even Ryanair wouldn't do this without paying a few hundred quid to each person.
Why do you say that?
One way to deal with overcrowding. Once the passenger numbers drop off a cliff you could then halve the number of services in response. That would then mean only half the number of services are delayed or cancelled so it boosts the reliability numbers.
Regional trains do not have sleeping cars and in many areas they don't have 1st class either.
How exactly can you move excess passengers to other trains which will also be full ? As for the chances of finding enough road coaches to carry excluded passengers - good luck with that one !
LittleRedTrain
Member
So what happens in a situation such as I faced today?
8 car Voyager arrived the wrong way round (relative to RTT... the platform displays don't even show the formation).
My wife (who has limited mobility) and I were stood at where we expected our reserved seats to be, except they were now 7 cars away at the other end of the train.
Would we be expected to hobble slowly up the platform and delay the train, rather than sit in the carriage full of empty seats that had stopped right in front of us?
Apologies for not replying. I’ve just had a few weeks away on my jolibobs!
Tried this in real life. I advised guests with no reservations on an extremely busy service to sit in the unoccupied seats around 15 minutes after departure.
Apparently they took it upon themselves to sit in first class and the hosts said I exposed them to ‘verbal altercations’.
So I got the cold shoulder from the crew for the rest of the day and it was really awkward. I apologised and explained why I did it but it didn’t seem to matter.
Alas I won’t be doing it again. My fault I guess but I felt so deflated thinking I was helping our guests but then felt like a pariah the rest of the day. So now I watch people stand for hours when there are unoccupied seats and I feel awful for them too!
Feeling a bit like a let down. Trying to help but then end up the bad girl. I guess you life, you learn!
Laura x
Tried this in real life. I advised guests with no reservations on an extremely busy service to sit in the unoccupied seats around 15 minutes after departure.
Apparently they took it upon themselves to sit in first class and the hosts said I exposed them to ‘verbal altercations’.
So I got the cold shoulder from the crew for the rest of the day and it was really awkward. I apologised and explained why I did it but it didn’t seem to matter.
Alas I won’t be doing it again. My fault I guess but I felt so deflated thinking I was helping our guests but then felt like a pariah the rest of the day. So now I watch people stand for hours when there are unoccupied seats and I feel awful for them too!
Feeling a bit like a let down. Trying to help but then end up the bad girl. I guess you life, you learn!
Laura x
Scotrail314209
Established Member
I don’t think your approach was wrong. The passengers should know that they need to sit in their corresponding class, so it’s not your fault that they took it upon themselves to do that.
Everyday is a learning day, if you ever feel like trying it again, specify that it needs to be in the same class as indicated on their ticket, then that means anyone who decides to go and sit in First has done so on their own volition, and it keeps you covered too.
You tried to do something good, because if I was in your shoes I’d probably end up doing the same.
Remember, you most likely helped quite a few people on the train that day, particularly those who aren’t able to stand for long periods of time.
Thank you. That has actually helped a lot as I’ve really dwelled on it for a while now. I guess it is a learning curve when you start out as a TM. Rules are just the beginning. It’s getting out there and working diagrams that gets you the experience.
Laura c
DelW
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It's a shame that you were made to feel guilty for Joe Public's misinterpretation of your helpful intentions. I hope that one incident doesn't deter you from trying to improve passengers' journeys in future.
One option might be to make the suggestion to individual passengers, rather than via the PA. That way you can target the ones who look more in need of a seat, and less likely to take it as an excuse for a free upgrade.
We've all done things in life that haven't worked out as we intended. Put it down to experience and don't worry about it any more!
Alvin_official
On Moderation
Pretty poor show from the rest of the crew. Although how they were exposed to verbal altercations as I've yet to see a first class host on Avanti and LNER ask to see tickets (Do they even require to check?)
Common sense however would be for those to use seats within their class, unless they wish to pay the upgrade fee (which i've seen happen on LNER)
Could your announcement have been interpreted to mean that first class was being declassified? Worth being absolutely clear on that, particularly if several people apparently misunderstood.
It’s pretty rare for guards to declassify first where I am, even if the train is full and standing.
First class hosts where I am generally request to see tickets before providing the service.
On Sunday (28th) I travelled from Swansea to London. A London to Carmarthen 2 x 5-coach train arrived and split, one unit continuing to Carmarthen. Then the train from Carmarthen arrived and coupled on. I had a reservation in Coach E. I looked at the letters displayed and saw that Coach E was the one at the buffer stop, so I got on there, slightly surprised that my seat number showed green unreserved. Anyway I sat there. Then I realised that the coach had become Coach L. So I had tried to occupy my correct seat, only to find that it had moved to the other end of the train. Fortunately there was plenty of space in first class, but apparently standard was crowded because a previous train had been cancelled, so some with reservations in standard may have been caught out. (The train manager even suggested that some might get off at Reading to change to a less crowded train for the last bit into London.)
TheSmiths82
Member
What is the legal situation on this? I was on an a Eurostar both journeys sold out, but both had free seats opposite mine so I moved to the empty seats, since both were none stop anyway.
On the Avanti going home it was busy due to problems on the ECML and people using the Manchester service to get up to Leeds/Sheffield or Scotland. The train manager announced that carriage A was nearly empty and people are welcome to move if they have more space. (somebody was even sat on the luggage rack!). I didn't bother as I had a huge amount of luggage with me, and after 7 year train journeys in Europe, a 2 hour train ride felt like a local bus service so I just stayed where I was.
On the Avanti going home it was busy due to problems on the ECML and people using the Manchester service to get up to Leeds/Sheffield or Scotland. The train manager announced that carriage A was nearly empty and people are welcome to move if they have more space. (somebody was even sat on the luggage rack!). I didn't bother as I had a huge amount of luggage with me, and after 7 year train journeys in Europe, a 2 hour train ride felt like a local bus service so I just stayed where I was.
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