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Releasing Unoccupied Reserved Seats

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Taunton

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We get all our business travel tickets through a corporate travel agent. A considerable quantity. The tickets are invariably flexible. Notwithstanding this, they ask for our business meeting times to "arrange the reservation", and make these with every booking. Almost all of what they actually reserve for me I don't use. There's no way to avoid reservations on the request form (I've asked more than once). It's the same form and compulsory questions for rail and for air travel. I have had to explain to others in the office that you are not required to only take that train.

So whenever I do a business trip up country from London there's a wasted reservation being shown in a train, both ways.
 
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TUC

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I do find it odd when people continue to stand even when passengers have clearly not turned up for their reserved seats from three stations ago. Does it reflect which people are rule-keepers?

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CrossCountry still use card reservations on their 170-operated routes.

Personally I'd like to see this scrapped completely on accessibility grounds. The tiny print on these cards is impossible to read if you have a visual impairment, so you can't tell if the reservation is currently active, or for an earlier/later part of the journey.

The only upside is that, unlike electronic reservations, it's impossible to have the seat reserved out from under you mid-journey!
Not sure how electronic reservation displays are any easier to read if you are visually impaired? The type is often not particularly bright or distinct.

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We get all our business travel tickets through a corporate travel agent. A considerable quantity. The tickets are invariably flexible. Notwithstanding this, they ask for our business meeting times to "arrange the reservation", and make these with every booking. Almost all of what they actually reserve for me I don't use. There's no way to avoid reservations on the request form (I've asked more than once). It's the same form and compulsory questions for rail and for air travel. I have had to explain to others in the office that you are not required to only take that train.

So whenever I do a business trip up country from London there's a wasted reservation being shown in a train, both ways.
What I find sometimes at work is that, despite asking for a table seat, an airline seat has been booked. If a table seat is free, do I ignore my reservation and sit at the table? Of course!
 
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Not sure how electronic reservation displays are any easier to read if you are visually impaired? The type is often not particularly bright or distinct.

I'm speaking from personal experience here as a visually impaired passenger:

It's a lot easier to read a bright LED display at eye level (especially those on an 80x with accompanying coloured light) than bending down to seat-back level to read small text on a card, especially on a window seat.
Given all the effort to make train PIS, interior colours and liveries accessible by law, it's disappointing that reservations are not subject to the same legal requirements.
 

Benjwri

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Given all the effort to make train PIS, interior colours and liveries accessible by law, it's disappointing that reservations are not subject to the same legal requirements.
Out of interest what do you suggest? I don’t see how you can make all three colours visible to every disability, so surely it’s a question of have the lights be not accessible, but the screens accessible, or just no lights at all and the same screens. Is the second situation not just a lose lose?
 
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What about on older units such as Voyagers?
Still a lot easier with the screens a few inches from your eyes on the luggage racks than on the seat backs, plus the text is bigger than the cards.
(Meridians are worse as the displays are further away and the contrast is worse).

Out of interest what do you suggest? I don’t see how you can make all three colours visible to every disability, so surely it’s a question of have the lights be not accessible, but the screens accessible, or just no lights at all and the same screens. Is the second situation not just a lose lose?
I'm not saying you need to change the electronic displays, as they're reasonably accessible, especially those on 80x. If you are colourblind the screens repeat the same information as the LEDS.

However I think that the inaccessible card reservations should have been abolished by now, given electronic displays have been an option for 20 years.
Anyone know if the XC 170 refurbishment will include fitting electronic displays?
 

Meole

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A compulsory seat reservation when purchasing a ticket would solve the problem, no standing passengers, a safer railway.
 

Falcon1200

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A compulsory seat reservation when purchasing a ticket would solve the problem, no standing passengers, a safer railway.

And completely destroy the flexibility which is a major advantage of rail over other forms of transport. Also, in many cases, compulsory seat reservations are totally unenforceable (between Coventry and Wolverhampton, or Reading and Paddington, for example).
 

Class83

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One of the odd features I increasingly find on Avanti is that all the reservations are grouped together, and other coaches are nearly empty. Clearly if the train is full you need to sit next to someone, but if not, it's pleasant to have a bit more space to spread out. Often, even on advance tickets I've moved to the empty coach and the guard has never commented on it.
 

greyman42

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A compulsory seat reservation when purchasing a ticket would solve the problem, no standing passengers, a safer railway.
So how would you get large amounts of passengers home after large sporting events/concerts etc?
 

Scotrail314209

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One of the odd features I increasingly find on Avanti is that all the reservations are grouped together, and other coaches are nearly empty. Clearly if the train is full you need to sit next to someone, but if not, it's pleasant to have a bit more space to spread out. Often, even on advance tickets I've moved to the empty coach and the guard has never commented on it.
This is something I notice aswell. It seems to go in order of B, E then F or some variation as those three always seem to be full, Coaches A and D tend to fill up last, D usually being almost entirely unreserved on most trains I’ve been on (like being able to have a table to myself from Edinburgh to Birmingham).
 

Djgr

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A compulsory seat reservation when purchasing a ticket would solve the problem, no standing passengers, a safer railway.
So how many passengers have been injured by standing?
 

London Trains

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Very simple solution to resolve all of these problems mentioned - get rid of seat reservations entirely across the UK's rail network (excluding Eurostar).
 

Taunton

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One of the odd features I increasingly find on Avanti is that all the reservations are grouped together, and other coaches are nearly empty. Clearly if the train is full you need to sit next to someone, but if not, it's pleasant to have a bit more space to spread out. Often, even on advance tickets I've moved to the empty coach and the guard has never commented on it.
This is how SNCF certainly used to do it, possibly still do, that reservations were just issued starting from car 1, seat 1, in sequence as they were booked, and everyone was sat together. If the train was fully booked (unlikely) you wouldn't notice, otherwise it was just for the convenience of a simplistic reservation system.
 

Mugby

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Very simple solution to resolve all of these problems mentioned - get rid of seat reservations entirely across the UK's rail network (excluding Eurostar).
Couldn't agree more - if only they would!

It would remove all the arguments, all the conflict, chaos and delays at a stroke. There's nothing worse than passengers lingering in the aisles, gazing at reservation displays when they haven't a clue what they're looking at, no appreciation of geography or what the next stations are, can't decide whether to sit down or not or where to stow their luggage and completely oblivious to the fact that other people are wanting to get past them.
Cross Country would be the prime candidate for trialling abolition of reservations, I wouldn't object to them being retained in First Class so there's always an option for people who feel better for having them.
 

stuu

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A compulsory seat reservation when purchasing a ticket would solve the problem, no standing passengers, a safer railway.
Why safer? And if they drive instead, they are taking a less safe mode of transport. So less safe. And less income.

You also take away flexibility, which is what people buying expensive tickets often want. Net result, less income for the railways.

Great plan
 

The exile

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Whilst I agree, I’m afraid my (jaundicied and cynical) view of the Great British Public is that such a facility would be used by a small proportion of passenegrs that have reserved a seat. This is based on my experience thatmost passengers seem incapable of taking their own rubbish to the bin.
If the reservation came with refundable fee they might - but that then opens several more cans of worms.
 

Bradford PA

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This is something I notice aswell. It seems to go in order of B, E then F or some variation as those three always seem to be full, Coaches A and D tend to fill up last, D usually being almost entirely unreserved on most trains I’ve been on (like being able to have a table to myself from Edinburgh to Birmingham).
This annoys me when I have specifically requested a window seat on the options menu and I find that I have been allocated a solid panel adjacent to my seat with plenty of unoccupied window seats elsewhere on the train, often in the same coach.
 

JamieL

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Very simple solution to resolve all of these problems mentioned - get rid of seat reservations entirely across the UK's rail network (excluding Eurostar).
If they did that I would stop using long distance rail - there is no way I would board a London to Scotland train without a guaranteed seat reservation.

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...and sleepers!
Why?

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A compulsory seat reservation when purchasing a ticket would solve the problem, no standing passengers, a safer railway.
Isn't this the approach being taken for (what's left of) HS2?
 

ivanhoe

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Personally, I applaud the Train Manager to issue such advice. The TM wants to make the journey as comfortable as possible for all passengers & easier for Staff to do their job.
 

al78

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Very simple solution to resolve all of these problems mentioned - get rid of seat reservations entirely across the UK's rail network (excluding Eurostar).
What about passengers with mobility issues that cannot stand for a long(ish) period of time and wish to at least maximise the chance of getting a seat? I know there exist priority seats but you have the same issue with staff not wanting to cause a scene/risk violent retailation when someone who is perfectly capable of standing refuses to give way to someone in more need than them.
 

TheSmiths82

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I usually leave a bag or a jacket (with no valuables in it) if I need to get up to the toilet. I also try and time toilet visits between large gaps between calling at stations, although that only works on long distance trains. I find that when I get my reserved seat the one next to me is usually reserved too but 50% of the time nobody takes that seat.
 
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What about passengers with mobility issues that cannot stand for a long(ish) period of time and wish to at least maximise the chance of getting a seat? I know there exist priority seats but you have the same issue with staff not wanting to cause a scene/risk violent retailation when someone who is perfectly capable of standing refuses to give way to someone in more need than them.
My preference would be a compromise:
- No more than say, 25% of standard class accommodation reservable on any train.
- 2/3s or so of the reservable seats can be booked on a first-come first-served basis by anyone for a nominal fee, refunded if cancelled before departure, to discourage unused reservations.
- Remainder of reservable seats only available to reserve by Senior or Disabled Railcard holders and a companion for no fee. (Could also be reserved by ticket office/customer services staff on request for those elderly/disabled people who don't hold a railcard, or those with a temporary injury).
Anyone sat in the 'disabled/elderly reservation' seats who hasn't got a reservation should be expected to vacate them if the reserver shows up (and should be rightly shamed if they don't!).
- Rest of the train unreservable so that most people can just sit wherever they please without worry of being kicked out of the seat they're in.

That way, those planning a long journey in advance can reserve a seat if they want, but have to pay a nominal fee for the privilege.
Those who for age/disability reasons really need a seat can get a reservation if they need it, without having to compete with those above.
Everyone else without reservations knows which part of the train to avoid, can sit in the first vacant seat they find; shorter dwell times, less confusion and fewer arguments.

I fear we may be venturing into Speculative Discussion territory here though, as there doesn't seem to be any motivation from the TOCs to change. In the case of the recent XC unreserved coach changes, we're moving even further from this model!
 

Noseygit

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It would be controversial for some here no doubt but I reckon if you have a seat reservation then you Choose to not sit in it then I think when the revenue check is undertaken, that failure to sit in your booked seat should result in fine !!
 

6Gman

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I think there should be a minimum journey time to have a reserved! I've seen many times people (due to connections) insist they get their reserved seat from Chippenham to Bath or so on.....
I once saw seat reservations Manchester Oxford Road to Piccadilly on a TfW service.
 

duffield

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It would be controversial for some here no doubt but I reckon if you have a seat reservation then you Choose to not sit in it then I think when the revenue check is undertaken, that failure to sit in your booked seat should result in fine !!
On less than full trains there are a number of cases where you are actually making the journey more pleasant for others as well as yourself by not sitting in your reserved seat and instead spreading out elsewhere. A fine would be harsh and irrational in those cases. However, yes, you should sit in your reserved seat if possible when a train is (or is likely to get) full.
 

fandroid

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On less than full trains there are a number of cases where you are actually making the journey more pleasant for others as well as yourself by not sitting in your reserved seat and instead spreading out elsewhere. A fine would be harsh and irrational in those cases. However, yes, you should sit in your reserved seat if possible when a train is (or is likely to get) full.
Absolutely. It's a case of using personal judgement and thinking of others. We shouldn't legislate away an individual's ability to be considerate
 
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