Reform UK discussion

[SuspectUsual]

But not, it appears, in the House of Commons. The BBC comment on him starts ‘Away from the Commons, Reform UK’s leader Nigel Farage echoes his earlier criticism…’ The background to the picture makes it look as though he is in a pub.

77 missed commons votes and counting. Apparently he is “too busy”

 

[Killingworth]

77 missed commons votes and counting. Apparently he is “too busy”

I have no statistics to hand but seem to recall he attended the European Parliament to create noisy and rude intervenions to suit his latest anti EU campaigns more than contributing to better government.

Has he accepted any Commons committee positions? Assuming he was asked to join any.

He's a rabble rouser. He has no interest or experience in actually governing. His inabilty to hold his parties together for more than a few months should be warning enough. That's why Lowe split away.

 

[Gloster]

I have no statistics to hand but seem to recall he attended the European Parliament to create noisy and rude intervenions to suit his latest anti EU campaigns more than contributing to better government.

Has he accepted any Commons committee positions? Assuming he was asked to join any.

He's a rabble rouser. He has no interest or experience in actually governing. His inabilty to hold his parties together for more than a few months should be warning enough. That's why Tice split away.

Do you mean Lowe? Tice is Farage’s Mini-Me.

 

[Killingworth]

Do you mean Lowe? Tice is Farage’s Mini-Me.

Yes Post corrected - but probably won't be long before he falls out with Tice!

 

[DoubleLemon]

77 missed commons votes and counting. Apparently he is “too busy”

it takes time spend all those millions in secret.

 

[nw1]

As an aside, Rupert Lowe is now saying Restore's policy is a referendum on the restoration of the death penalty, and if you read the replies to his tweet on this subject the replies are terrifying.

True, but let Lowe continue to take votes from Reform. He's useful in that respect, if nothing else.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jun 2026 ==

But not, it appears, in the House of Commons. The BBC comment on him starts ‘Away from the Commons, Reform UK’s leader Nigel Farage echoes his earlier criticism…’ The background to the picture makes it look as though he is in a pub.

Ah yes, doing his "man of the people" trick. He's not a privileged ex-Dulwich College pupil, he grew up on a tough council estate in Kent.

 

[DarloRich]

I hope all the lads are fit for the forthcoming Farage Riots season.

 

[RT4038]

What category does the man on the Clapham omnibus put "pure cold rage" in?

I doubt that the man on the Clapham omnibus represents a cross section of society anymore!

 

[Bletchleyite]

There are plenty of people, I suspect, who might want to "Stop The Boats" (TM) but do not want our communities blighted by far-right disorder. To me, the Conservative Party is the natural home for such people.

There are a lot of people who are politically unrepresented, to be honest. I think the closest I've ever got to being was the Tory-Lib Dem coalition!

 

[Jon_jpwh]

In what world is this not incitement:

https://www.ft.com/content/1f9cf0bb-8e11-4808-a66b-08326d09d324?syn-25a6b1a6=1

At least the weather is poor this week, had this been last week in the heatwave the police would have a right job on their hands.

What amazes me is that Farage calls it an emergency address. Reform should stop pretending that they are somehow the official opposition. That along with Zia Yusuf being called the shadow home secretary when he isn't even an MP.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What amazes me is that Farage calls it an emergency address. Reform should stop pretending that they are somehow the official opposition. That along with Zia Yusuf being called the shadow home secretary when he isn't even an MP.

Perhaps Labour could consider bringing legislation legally prohibiting the false statement of such titles? It seems to have similar impact in a way to Impersonation of a Police Officer which is an offence.

 

[Mojo]

I’ve split the posts regarding the tragic murder of Henry Nowak and subsequent police response into a new thread here

Murder of Henry Nowak

It's a world where is not incitement to violence. https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-councillor-acquitted-over-cut-all-their-throats-speech-2025-08-15/ Whataboutery. To me it's obvious that "pure cold rage" could be interpreted by some as incitement to violence, even if not intended. As a...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Mattplans]

Had a pretty good laugh today at the news Reform UK is inviting trade unions to partner with the party.

 

[STINT47]

Had a pretty good laugh today at the news Reform UK is inviting trade unions to partner with the party.

Reform is a good thing for the trade unions. When they take over a council union membership usually increases.

 

[The Ham]

Reform identity an area where they can make cuts:

Reform councillor questions Cornish language demand - BBC News https://share.google/EsMTbI6YpFnwxm4Tm

During discussions about ongoing proposals to revive Cornish (Kernewek) language, Smith questioned whether the annual funding of £170,000 was "an appropriate use of council funds" at a time when Cornwall "faces significant pressure in housing, adult social care, children's services and also economic inequality".

Again it's typical, £170,000 sounds a big number, only the council has a budget of £1.5 billion and so that's about 0.01% of the budget.

Even on a cost per household (there's 0.25 million) roughly 70p.

Yes, if they cut a lot of those sorts of things there could be some savings, but the bottom line is that it's not really going to change things if it's cut - yet it's a key factor for some and actually has wider benefits (for example, learning any language helps with wider educational outcomes).

 

[greatkingrat]

If a Reform council were to spend £170k on something you don't consider worth it, would you still be happy to say "it's only 70p per household, who cares"?

 

[AlterEgo]

If a Reform council were to spend £170k on something you don't consider worth it, would you still be happy to say "it's only 70p per household, who cares"?

It's not very conservative to defund the promotion of native languages though, I'll say that much.

 

[35B]

It's not very conservative to defund the promotion of native languages though, I'll say that much.

As my understanding is that Cornish had ceased to be spoken, I'm not sure that its resurrection is particularly conservative either.

 

[GusB]

If a Reform council were to spend £170k on something you don't consider worth it, would you still be happy to say "it's only 70p per household, who cares"?

Ah, but Reform councils don't seem to be too averse to "frivolous" spending when it suits their own agenda:

Reform UK council's £75,000 flags project begins

A total of 164 union jack flags will be displayed in 82 locations under the scheme.

www.bbc.co.uk

Union jack flags have started being installed on roads across Nottinghamshire as part of a £75,000 county council project.

A total of 164 are planned under the scheme by Reform UK-led Nottinghamshire County Council.

The work has involved fixing brackets and flags to lamp-posts in 82 areas across Rushcliffe, Broxtowe, Bassetlaw, Newark, Mansfield, Ashfield and Gedling.

I'd rather see money spent on keeping one of our indigenous languages going than waving a flag from every lamppost.

 

[AlterEgo]

As my understanding is that Cornish had ceased to be spoken, I'm not sure that its resurrection is particularly conservative either.

By the same logic, those who reinstated the monarchy weren't conservatives.

 

[Gloster]

As my understanding is that Cornish had ceased to be spoken, I'm not sure that its resurrection is particularly conservative either.

It never quite ceased to be spoken and there has been a slight revival in recent years, but the numbers who claim to speak it as a main language is only in the hundreds; I (personally) suspect that that is a bit of an overestimate and most are merely bilingual. However, there is an element of hypocrisy in a party that is keen on flying on English flags and English tradition trying to disadvantage a native language.

 

[The Ham]

If a Reform council were to spend £170k on something you don't consider worth it, would you still be happy to say "it's only 70p per household, who cares"?

Provide me with an example, which (as I highlighted, learning any language results in wider educational benefits) does have wider benefits and I suspect that I would broadly support almost anything. If the cost was tiny.

To put that 70p in perspective a Band D property is paying at least £1,900 a year (single occupancy on the lowest rate), so would mean that instead of a 4.99% increase next year it would be 4.96%

Even the example of the flags, whist it spending which some may see as unnecessary, if it means that the flags such are up are well secured and don't to end up being faded, torn and an eyesore then it's likely to be justifiable.

The other factor with that, is that it takes the value out of the campaign for individuals to erect the flags. This then dials back the rhetoric and the risk of individuals feeling that they aren't listened to being a bit more liken to move on to something more likely to result in violence (not immediately, and probably only a tiny amount of a minority of people).

Yes, there's a risk that some may feel that they "won", and move to the next thing, but the argument that "we can't even fly the British flag" is gone and so wouldn't have the same strength of feeling.

Of course, having spent the money a future left leaning woke party could just put a load of pride flags up and justify it as the brackets aren't being used and the cost is a fraction of the original spend.

The reality is that things like social care spending is so large that even cutting 1/2 the council employees (you know those who have non jobs and/or wander around carrying a clipboard but otherwise not doing any work) hardly impacts the total budget of councils.

 

[35B]

By the same logic, those who reinstated the monarchy weren't conservatives.

They brought the pendulum back to where it had been within recent memory, excising the memory of what many felt to be a very bad period.

The Cornish language project, as with other attempts to revive languages that have lost out to dominant national tongues, is a complex mix. The Celtic projects have always been expressly political and largely radical, right back to the Irish nationalists of the late 19th century and their attempts to make Ireland Gaelic. The current project in Cornwall is just as much an attempt to cause Cornwall to change tongue, and very weakly founded in actual usage. To the extent that it is linked to a Cornish nationalist project, in a place that has been an integral part of England for many centuries (in a way that Wales, Scotland and Ireland were not), it is not conservative but radical.

Taking us over to Reform, much the same could be said of them - what they want to do is not conservation, but radical change to a utopian vision, anchored in a romanticised misconception of the past. They are right wing (but beware of the horseshoe), but in no way conservative

 

[GusB]

The Cornish language project, as with other attempts to revive languages that have lost out to dominant national tongues, is a complex mix. The Celtic projects have always been expressly political and largely radical, right back to the Irish nationalists of the late 19th century and their attempts to make Ireland Gaelic. The current project in Cornwall is just as much an attempt to cause Cornwall to change tongue, and very weakly founded in actual usage. To the extent that it is linked to a Cornish nationalist project, in a place that has been an integral part of England for many centuries (in a way that Wales, Scotland and Ireland were not), it is not conservative but radical.

I always thought that Reform was in favour of preserving "British culture", so surely efforts to preserve the Cornish language align with that goal?

It always makes me chuckle when you refer to efforts towards preserving minority languages as political when the decline of those languages is partly down to political decisions. The fact that you refer to "dominant national tongues" speaks volumes about your attitude towards minority cultures in this country. Why are Celtic languages spoken so little? I understand that populations migrate and that language changes naturally over time, but the dying back of the Celtic languages wasn't an entirely natural process, was it?

Many of my ancestors would have been Scots Gaelic speakers (Irish and Welsh too, probably), yet I wasn't given the chance to learn that language in school and I grew up in an area where Gaelic would have been fairly widely spoken. Fortunately that situation has now changed and kids these days are able to learn the language of their forebears. It's only right that Cornish people have a chance to learn their own native tongue.

 

[35B]

I always thought that Reform was in favour of preserving "British culture", so surely efforts to preserve the Cornish language align with that goal?

It always makes me chuckle when you refer to efforts towards preserving minority languages as political when the decline of those languages is partly down to political decisions. The fact that you refer to "dominant national tongues" speaks volumes about your attitude towards minority cultures in this country. Why are Celtic languages spoken so little? I understand that populations migrate and that language changes naturally over time, but the dying back of the Celtic languages wasn't an entirely natural process, was it?

Many of my ancestors would have been Scots Gaelic speakers (Irish and Welsh too, probably), yet I wasn't given the chance to learn that language in school and I grew up in an area where Gaelic would have been fairly widely spoken. Fortunately that situation has now changed and kids these days are able to learn the language of their forebears. It's only right that Cornish people have a chance to learn their own native tongue.

I'm well aware that the dying back of both Welsh and Irish was far from natural; I honestly don't know about Cornish.

More generally, I've a fairly utilitarian view of language which is based in the here and now, and what is of use to people today. So when, a few weeks ago, I heard a teacher in Launceston proudly stating that his school was teaching Cornish as a foreign language, my heart sank at the time that pupils were investing in a language which they are unlikely to use in day to day life, which will not help them elsewhere, and where scarce syllabus time means that they will lose the opportunity to learn foreign languages that may serve them practically.

Nationalists in many places have used language, quite deliberately, as a wedge issue - and Cornish is quite literally the thin end of one such wedge. Where those languages have been dominated by a national tongue, whether that's the Celtic tongues in Britain (English), Breton (French), Czech or Slovak (German, under the Habsburg Empire), Catalan (Spanish), or others, the campaign for language rights has been used as a mobilising force for a nationalist project. It has bound identity with language, and been used to draw points of difference against the ruling power. Sometimes (Irish being a notable example), it has been a conscious top down strategy, at other times it's been more genuinely a bottom up pressure (notably in the Habsburg Empire).

The Cornish project is at the more deliberate end of the spectrum, because the base was so low (see earlier comment about knowledge beyond that). From outside, the campaign seems designed to create a deeper and more separate identity.

For that reason, I don't have a problem with local politicians going "really?" and curtailing funding. What, however, I find grimly amusing is that this is being done by a party that uses identity as a wedge issue, and in a way that could be designed to alienate those who don't feel "English" (and Reform don't understand the difference between "English" and "British").

 

[GusB]

More generally, I've a fairly utilitarian view of language which is based in the here and now, and what is of use to people today. So when, a few weeks ago, I heard a teacher in Launceston proudly stating that his school was teaching Cornish as a foreign language, my heart sank at the time that pupils were investing in a language which they are unlikely to use in day to day life, which will not help them elsewhere, and where scarce syllabus time means that they will lose the opportunity to learn foreign languages that may serve them practically.

A language may not be of any practical use to you, but you can't decide for everyone else. I learned French at secondary school and it has served zero practical purpose in my life so far; I could argue that it would have been more beneficial having Gaelic a a second language in terms of job opportunities.

Besides, human beings have the capacity to learn more than two languages and those who have a passion for it will go on to learn more. In any case, why does learning have to be based on purely practical considerations? Is learning not allowed to be fun, especially at primary level?

 

[Killingworth]

Maybe this language debate should have a separate thread? It's drifting away from being a Reform issue.

I know when I travel by train, bus or tram or wander round Meadowhall or Sheffield city centre I'll hear very many languages other than English. Most of the speakers can also converse quite well in English. I note that many of our most successful business and professional people have grown up with a first language that was not English.

An old friend, sadly now deceased, grew up in Alexandria, Egypt speaking Greek* at home but Arabic when playing with neighbours in the street. His parents got him into the best local school where tuition was in Hebrew! That lead to a secondary school where tuition was in French. At University much was taught in English. He went to work for a time in Libya where Italian was still widely spoken in business so he added that to his repertoire. He could get a fair way in German too but when he first came to England he was treated to the best British reception meted out to wily tanned gentlemen, an assumption of his total ignorance. He was one of the most widely experienced and knowledgeable people I've known, keeping quiet counsel and avoiding controversy.

Returning to Reform I despair. We have so much under appreciated talent - yet I suspect my friend would have been against totally open house for all who choose to come here. As are many other recent immigrants who'd like to haul up the ladder once they're here! Drawing lines is incredibly difficult. Just look at the nations built almost totally on immigration!

Gaelic, Welsh, Irish, Cornish are great in their localities. Brighter children may find leaning one other language helps them learn more. In Britain the vast majority of those who can use more than one language have learned it at home from their family, not from school.

*His grandfather was Bulgarian and so was his original passport!

 

[AlterEgo]

They brought the pendulum back to where it had been within recent memory, excising the memory of what many felt to be a very bad period.

By your logic, anything which is a conscious and deliberate revival is not conservative, which cannot possible be a meaningful use of the word beyond semantics.

I'm well aware that the dying back of both Welsh and Irish was far from natural; I honestly don't know about Cornish.

More generally, I've a fairly utilitarian view of language which is based in the here and now, and what is of use to people today. So when, a few weeks ago, I heard a teacher in Launceston proudly stating that his school was teaching Cornish as a foreign language, my heart sank at the time that pupils were investing in a language which they are unlikely to use in day to day life, which will not help them elsewhere, and where scarce syllabus time means that they will lose the opportunity to learn foreign languages that may serve them practically.

Learning languages is pretty useful regardless of whether or not you employ them. I wasn't taught French at GCSE so I could order une bouteille de coca when I went on holiday. Language learning teaches memory, multitasking and more. We were taught Latin from verb tables in Classics and I found it worthwhile and enjoyable.

For some people, learning languages helps them connect with their own culture. We spent entire terms in English literature learning Shakespeare and Catcher in the Rye and The Crucible, but I rarely hear the objection that is a waste of syllabus time because it doesn't help me write a letter or order my dinner.

Of course language learning is not purely utilitarian; that is just philistinism.

 

[35B]

A language may not be of any practical use to you, but you can't decide for everyone else. I learned French at secondary school and it has served zero practical purpose in my life so far; I could argue that it would have been more beneficial having Gaelic a a second language in terms of job opportunities.

Besides, human beings have the capacity to learn more than two languages and those who have a passion for it will go on to learn more. In any case, why does learning have to be based on purely practical considerations? Is learning not allowed to be fun, especially at primary level?

I stated a utilitarian perspective. That includes a logic of the greatest good of the greatest number, and my reaction was based on that principle. As language is also a lead into wider culture (and both my kids have studied a foreign language to A-Level), then there's also an aspect of broadening horizons - where I can't see Cornish (specifically) being particularly effective at developing either a wider cultural affinity (e.g. the literary possibilities associated with studying "dead" languages) or understanding of foreign cultures.

Which, again, takes us back to Reform and their lack of interest in the wider world - meaning that saving £170k on teaching Cornish will do nothing to broaden perspectives.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jun 2026 ==

By your logic, anything which is a conscious and deliberate revival is not conservative, which cannot possible be a meaningful use of the word beyond semantics.

Learning languages is pretty useful regardless of whether or not you employ them. I wasn't taught French at GCSE so I could order une bouteille de coca when I went on holiday. Language learning teaches memory, multitasking and more. We were taught Latin from verb tables in Classics and I found it worthwhile and enjoyable.

For some people, learning languages helps them connect with their own culture. We spent entire terms in English literature learning Shakespeare and Catcher in the Rye and The Crucible, but I rarely hear the objection that is a waste of syllabus time because it doesn't help me write a letter or order my dinner.

Of course language learning is not purely utilitarian; that is just philistinism.

It is noticeable that Cornish is being taught as a foreign language, not as English. At times, I've studied Latin, French, Spanish, Italian and German - and to the despair of my (language teacher) mother, never made much of a go at any of them. I completely agree about culture being important - but that brings in the question of where a defunct language has a living culture to teach, and where pupils may gain value given the very limited syllabus time available for all subjects.

As for semantics, this pedant feels they do matter - and, again back to Reform, the use of the word "conservative" is actively misleading as a description of a party that wishes to enact radical change (see also MAGA & quite a lot of what the Tory Party have done in recent years). By giving them that word to use as a self-description, we blind ourselves to their true nature.

 

[Bayum]

Reform identity an area where they can make cuts:

Reform councillor questions Cornish language demand - BBC News https://share.google/EsMTbI6YpFnwxm4Tm



Again it's typical, £170,000 sounds a big number, only the council has a budget of £1.5 billion and so that's about 0.01% of the budget.

Even on a cost per household (there's 0.25 million) roughly 70p.

Yes, if they cut a lot of those sorts of things there could be some savings, but the bottom line is that it's not really going to change things if it's cut - yet it's a key factor for some and actually has wider benefits (for example, learning any language helps with wider educational outcomes).

Unless it’s English (and badly misspelt when typed) they probably wouldn’t give a hoot about any of our ancient languages. Heck, I doubt they even know of Kernewek/Welsh ancient languages.