Quiet Coaches

[gallafent]

There is no difference booking Coach B or Coach A if comparing seats near each of the relevant vestibules. And of course higher numbered seats in Coach B are better than Coach A!

… definitely (well, better than the higher numbered seats in A!). Is there a way to specify coach letter on GWR's website, though? (Or otherwise, is there another site which allows me to pick coach B as well as making GWR bike reservations?!

 

[SteveP29]

The quiet coach specifically prohibits mobile phone use.

No it doesn't

 

[SteveP29]

respect the request made of them in what is a very small area of the train. Accidentally forgetting is understandable, doing it on purpose is just rude.

Hang on, in the post I've quoted of yours above, you say mobile phone use is prohibited.
Yet this post says its a request not to use it.

Two completely different things, make your mind up, is it a request or is it an order?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

In most quiet zones they ask you to not chat on mobile phones loudly if at all. But using them is fine, eg: texting, using the internet, etc...
So I think, anyway.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Hang on, in the post I've quoted of yours above, you say mobile phone use is prohibited.

Yet this post says its a request not to use it.



Two completely different things, make your mind up, is it a request or is it an order?

To anyone who is even vaguely polite, they are the same thing.

 

[Eccles1983]

To anyone with a brain they are completely different.

One of the issues with travel now is jumped up passengers thinking they can enforce rules that do not exist.

I estimate that you fall into this box.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To anyone with a brain they are completely different.

No, they are not.

If you are on someone else's property and they make a reasonable request, you comply with it, or you stop using their property.

There is, for example, no Byelaw prohibiting smoking in my house, but if you are there and you wilfully light up indoors you'll be out and never coming back.

One of the issues with travel now is jumped up passengers thinking they can enforce rules that do not exist.

I estimate that you fall into this box.

It should not be necessary to enforce it. Whatever you call it, it's clear what the "rules" are. Comply with them or sit elsewhere (most of the train is not a quiet coach). It is not hard.

This argument has the modern day "rights over responsibilities" view written all over it, just like the need for PFs, prosecutions etc to get people to pay their fare.

 

[Eccles1983]

Request - an action that is non enforceable.

Demand/Order - an action that has consequence.

What this arguement has written all over it is false entitlement. Busy bodies thinking they have authority to tell other passengers what to do when they have ZERO.

Funnily enough it is usually the fuss pots who come crying first when their understanding of "rules" has been challenged by others.

 

[Dougal2345]

(From 444/450 world)

Signage should be improved- specifically there should be notices on the vestibule doors of the QC so that passengers walking through the train are aware.

I'd like to hear an occasional recorded announcement in the QC only... Soothing voice cooing "this is the Quiet Zone" perhaps. Maybe it could be automatically triggered by a rise in the ambient noise level...

Finally I notice the noise level is higher in the Desiros due to their industrial-vacuum-cleaner air conditioning racket... People have to shout to be heard over it. The Electrostar experience is far more tranquil. It's such a shame about the Desiros in that respect as when the air conditioning does fail you can hear a pin drop. I can imagine the engineers being so proud of their new trains, until the moment the ventilation guys started nailing their rubbish on the ceiling...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Request - an action that is non enforceable.

Demand/Order - an action that has consequence.

Yes, but when the request is made by the proprietor(s) of the product/service you are using, it is only right that you respect it or decline to use the product/service.

What this arguement has written all over it is false entitlement. Busy bodies thinking they have authority to tell other passengers what to do when they have ZERO.

Funnily enough it is usually the fuss pots who come crying first when their understanding of "rules" has been challenged by others.

There is no "understanding of rules" issues. On all TOCs the request, if you prefer to call it that, is that mobile phones are not used for telephone calls or other noise-making tasks in a quiet coach. That should be all it takes.

It's not about "busybodies enforcing it", it's about a lack of respect in not complying.

 

[shredder1]

.

If you are on someone else's property and they make a reasonable request, you comply with it, or you stop using their property.

There is, for example, no Byelaw prohibiting smoking in my house, but if you are there and you wilfully light up indoors you'll be out and never coming back.

Strange anology, is your house subsidised by the public purse then?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Strange anology, is your house subsidised by the public purse then?

Why does that matter?

Would you also wilfully disrespect a polite and reasonable request posted on the wall of the local Council offices if you had cause to go there, such as not to make telephone calls in the waiting room?

It should not require enforcement. It is a totally reasonable request and should be respected without anyone having to ask.

 

[shredder1]

Why does that matter?

Would you also wilfully disrespect a polite and reasonable request posted on the wall of the local Council offices if you had cause to go there, such as not to make telephone calls in the waiting room?

It should not require enforcement. It is a totally reasonable request and should be respected without anyone having to ask.[/QUOTE ]

Yes of course these things should be respected Neil, I don`t think anyone is disagreeing with that, its the attitude that appears to be the problem and how its approached.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes of course these things should be respected Neil, I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that, its the attitude that appears to be the problem and how its approached.

The only attitude problem is in people who think it doesn't apply to them.

If someone does point it out because you have accidentally forgotten about it and answered your phone in error, the correct response is to accept being in the wrong, apologise and either end the call or move to the vestibule to continue it.

Some aspects of quiet coaches are for debate, but all of them discourage telephone calls.

 

[shredder1]

The only attitude problem is in people who think it doesn't apply to them.

If someone does point it out because you have accidentally forgotten about it and answered your phone in error, the correct response is to accept being in the wrong, apologise and either end the call or move to the vestibule to continue it.

Some aspects of quiet coaches are for debate, but all of them discourage telephone calls.

I think most people are reasonable if they are approached in the proper way, its only reasonable to respect your fellow passenger, you should be mindful though that some people may have walking difficulties, amplified on moving trains, so may not easily beable to walk to a vestibule, but if they answer quickly and quietly, (unless they are slightly deaf), then I don`t really see an issue with it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think most people are reasonable if they are approached in the proper way, its only reasonable to respect your fellow passenger, you should be mindful though that some people may have walking difficulties, amplified on moving trains, so may not easily beable to walk to a vestibule, but if they answer quickly and quietly, (unless they are slightly deaf), then I don't really see an issue with it.

Such people could request a priority seat in another coach, solving the problem, so no I don't see any reason to accommodate that in the quiet coach. And there are other, silent, ways to communicate using a mobile phone that these days most people use far more than telephone calls!

 

[Llanigraham]

I genuinely disagree, even if it isn't where I normally sit.

The rules should be defined, in the Byelaws, and enforced, with prosecutions if necessary (though the first line should be a simple "pack it in or move").

I also want to see some enforcement of the existing Byelaws surrounding noise, and some modifications to them, applying to all trains and stations at all times. At present playing a musical instrument or device out loud is an offence only if it causes annoyance, which means it is necessary to complain for enforcement, which can be awkward. I would like to see this change to an absolute prohibition, and enforced without being asked, as it is simply rude. Headphones are cheap and easily available. It is not ever acceptable in any setting, other than a private home, car, hotel room etc or an organised event, to play films etc out loud, yet antisocial people are doing it with increasing regularity. This is adding to the increasing noise pollution of modern life, and it is totally unnecessary.

Though to be fair, waffling announcements are as bad, and are of no benefit whatsoever to anyone. Static information not related to the operation of the service should go on static printed posters, and the "don't leave your bags lying around" and "see it, say it, sorted" nonsense no longer announced.

Are you willing to pay extra for the staff to police this? Somehow I doubt it.

 

[Llanigraham]

Such people could request a priority seat in another coach, solving the problem, so no I don't see any reason to accommodate that in the quiet coach. And there are other, silent, ways to communicate using a mobile phone that these days most people use far more than telephone calls!

As a partially deaf person, can I request a Priority Seat?

I suggest that you are requesting respect from people yet do not show much yourself.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The only attitude problem is in people who think it doesn't apply to them.

If someone does point it out because you have accidentally forgotten about it and answered your phone in error, the correct response is to accept being in the wrong, apologise and either end the call or move to the vestibule to continue it.

Some aspects of quiet coaches are for debate, but all of them discourage telephone calls.

I agree with you totally- but when a train is so full you cant choose which carriage to go in, should it apply then, because you can't choose which carriage you sit in so you may have no choice but be in the QZ? I can't decide.

 

[Bookd]

Having waded through this and other similar threads I still cannot see why people are paranoid about mobile phones. I am an old codger but cannot see why people become more annoyed by others talking on the phone than by face to face.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Having waded through this and other similar threads I still cannot see why people are paranoid about mobile phones. I am an old codger but cannot see why people become more annoyed by others talking on the phone than by face to face.

Because in my experience people always feel the need to talk extremely loudly on phones.

 

[shredder1]

Such people could request a priority seat in another coach, solving the problem, so no I don't see any reason to accommodate that in the quiet coach. And there are other, silent, ways to communicate using a mobile phone that these days most people use far more than telephone calls!

They may feel embarrassed Neil and not want to be singled out with priority seating, surely when we share something like a so called quiet coach, (bearing in mind this is not a silent coach), we should have tolerance of our fellow passengers and their needs and habits and possibly ignorance, but to come down on someone like a ton of bricks is likely to cause offence and a slap on the head .

 

[Peter Mugridge]

No - why should we who enjoy a quiet travelling environment give up our quiet coaches just because some idiots can't respect it. In most cases its only one coach in each class - is it really too much to ask that people using these limited coaches respect the "rules". :-x

If we are going to keep them then they should be made enforcable and actually enforced. Otherwise as others have pointed out they just cause problems.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are you willing to pay extra for the staff to police this? Somehow I doubt it.

I wonder are the Merseyrail Byelaw squads profitable?

 

[Bletchleyite]

They may feel embarrassed Neil and not want to be singled out with priority seating, surely when we share something like a so called quiet coach, (bearing in mind this is not a silent coach), we should have tolerance of our fellow passengers and their needs and habits and possibly ignorance, but to come down on someone like a ton of bricks is likely to cause offence and a slap on the head .

"Excuse me, please, would you mind taking your telephone call in the vestibule, as this is the quiet coach?" is not coming down on someone like a ton of bricks. It's a polite reminder of someone's responsibilities they accepted by sitting in that area. If it takes more than that, or the response is other than an apology and the cessation of the call as soon as feasible, they are a rude individual indeed.

Lots of people sit in priority seats because they like the extra space. I do. Sitting in one does not single someone out.

The common theme across all quiet coaches is no phone calls. I don't therefore think allowing a phone call where there is alternative accommodation allowing it, and where there exist a myriad of silent methods of communicating using a mobile phone, is "reasonable adjustment" for a disability (with the possible exception of a blind person who cannot use those other means and could not have seen the signage anyway).

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Thing is though, what if the train was so full you couldn't move into another coach, and a mother with a newborn baby boarded not realising it was the quiet coach, or a carer with someone with a mental illness that caused them to scream or shout loudly, once again not realising?

And what if you could move into another coach? Would what you would do differ? Once again I can't decide

 

[Parallel]

To be honest if the train is so packed, both the quiet coach and usually first class go out of the window (the latter being declassified). It becomes more of a case of getting as many people on as possible rather than the purpose of the coach.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

To be honest if the train is so packed, both the quiet coach and usually first class go out of the window (the latter being declassified). It becomes more of a case of getting as many people on as possible rather than the purpose of the coach.

I think that's a good decision for the QC. As a first class traveller I'm not sure I like the idea of regular declassification though!

 

[cjmillsnun]

"Excuse me, please, would you mind taking your telephone call in the vestibule, as this is the quiet coach?" is not coming down on someone like a ton of bricks. It's a polite reminder of someone's responsibilities they accepted by sitting in that area. If it takes more than that, or the response is other than an apology and the cessation of the call as soon as feasible, they are a rude individual indeed.

Lots of people sit in priority seats because they like the extra space. I do. Sitting in one does not single someone out.

The common theme across all quiet coaches is no phone calls. I don't therefore think allowing a phone call where there is alternative accommodation allowing it, and where there exist a myriad of silent methods of communicating using a mobile phone, is "reasonable adjustment" for a disability (with the possible exception of a blind person who cannot use those other means and could not have seen the signage anyway).

Actually SWT ask you to keep your phone on silent and to talk quietly. So not all TOCs

 

[Bletchleyite]

Actually SWT ask you to keep your phone on silent and to talk quietly. So not all TOCs

Talk quietly when talking to other passengers. They do ask you not to use mobile phones at all. I don't think there is any TOC that doesn't.

Where a quiet carriage is provided on a service there are labels on the external passenger doors and on the internal windows. Guards also make announcements during the journey. Some passengers don't see the signage or hear the PA. Others choose to ignore these. A guard will point out to a passenger if they are using a mobile phone or playing music loudly but unfortunately passengers do react unfavourably when challenged. The quiet coaches only have labels asking passengers to refrain from using mobile phones and be aware of the volume of their music. They do not ask passengers to treat the coach as a library.

https://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/contact--help/faqs/