A phone is a device that incites IMMEDIATE attention, it is hard to ignore a ringing phone when you are in a position to answer it, so people do this without thought. It will also depend on whether they are expecting an important (to them) call.
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Quiet Coaches
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A phone is a device that incites IMMEDIATE attention, it is hard to ignore a ringing phone when you are in a position to answer it, so people do this without thought. It will also depend on whether they are expecting an important (to them) call.
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
When to ignore a phone is a good life skill that few seem to possess.
All Line Rover
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CrossCountry removed the Quiet Coach from Voyagers because it wasn't feasible on standing-room-only 4-car trains. CrossCountry have retained the Quiet Coach on their more capacious HST trains.
I question the merit of this thread. It is identical to countless previous threads. The same views are expressed, and the same ill-informed speculation is offered.
I question the merit of this thread. It is identical to countless previous threads. The same views are expressed, and the same ill-informed speculation is offered.
bramling
Veteran Member
Yes I think the subject of quiet coaches can be summed up as follows:
- Some people like them.
- Some people don't like them.
- No one quite knows and/or agrees on the exact rules.
- The TOC with the clearest policy is Chiltern, whose quiet areas also seem to be better respected than most.
- Signage and booking systems could be improved to reduce the problem of people ending up in a quiet area when they don't want to be.
- They can be a nuisance for train crews.
- Some grown adults seem incapable of keeping it zipped for a short time.
Llanigraham
On Moderation
Jamming is not possible, since it can not be confined to just the train.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
there is no requirement to "keep it zipped" for any amount of time in a quiet coach despite what many here think/would like. It is not a silent coach.
There is a need to be considerate to those around you. That is something most, but not all, manage easily.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Jamming isn't, but passive blocking using metal film on the windows is. Indeed, Voyagers generally have poor reception due to the window film used to do the tint.
Nonetheless I think this would be silly as most people using mobile devices are using them for data, not calls.
YorkshireBear
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I once got told off for texting in a quiet coach. I was told there was no mobiles to be used at all in this carriage by another passenger.
I think they said it when the guard was nearby to try get some support but the guard simply said (before i could even muster a response), 'as long he doesn't make a call or any noise with it he can do what he likes love'.
I think they said it when the guard was nearby to try get some support but the guard simply said (before i could even muster a response), 'as long he doesn't make a call or any noise with it he can do what he likes love'.
On FGW as was the sign in a quiet coach used to say "Do not use mobile phones or personal stereos". Someone was ticked off for texting - the objector regarded the phrase "Do not use mobile phones" as also applying to texting despite the act of texting making no noise whatsoever!
Dr_Intoxicated
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Except for those few annoying people that seem to have turned on a keypress bleep feature
satisnek
Member
Agreed, perhaps by being incorporated into the 'smoking is not permitted anywhere on this train' type of announcement.
Although it's nothing new... some of us can remember cassette recorders and ghetto blasters but (a) they were less common, being both large and bulky and battery guzzlers, (b) they had superior sound quality and (c) music was much better then anyway
shredder1
Established Member
I question the merit of your post. I put the thread up based on a recent experience, and was curious about the opinions of others, should people wade through all the threads on this site first before posting anything, just in case a similar thread has been posted in the past that they are not aware of ?
Out of interest whats countless, 100 plus, 200??
shredder1
Established Member
This is the problem with those silly little unworkable rules is you do get people who lead very sad lives and are largely dominated by others and they`ll sit in a quiet coach like a coiled spring waiting to express their self-righteous sad little existence to anyone that, they feel might be breaking some petty little rule
Try early morning LMs into Euston, where ALL coaches are the de facto quiet coach and woe betide anyone being noisy
I agree with this. Woe betide anyone making a call on a 12-carriage full and standing train into Kings Cross in the morning peak.
I find the peaks far more civilised than off peak.
alxndr
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My tuppence worth:
- I like quiet coaches and will always use them where possible.
- The majority of the time I find them very pleasant to be in (had a lovely kip—without snoring—in one this afternoon actually!)
- I don't expect people to be deathly silent, just considerate. If it's not appropriate in a library don't do it in the quiet coach.
- Gadgets are fine as long as they're not bleeping.
- Clearer demarcation would be useful, along with a clearer explanation of expectations.
- In my experience, cyclists on GWR HSTs make the most noise, probably because they aren't choosing the quiet coach but the coach closest to their bike.
I wonder how the Quiet Coach Gestapo would react to one experience I had, where someone had brought their boxer dog into the quiet coach. It sat, very well behaved, at the far end, but unfortunately, boxer's aren't the quietest when it comes to breathing!
- I like quiet coaches and will always use them where possible.
- The majority of the time I find them very pleasant to be in (had a lovely kip—without snoring—in one this afternoon actually!)
- I don't expect people to be deathly silent, just considerate. If it's not appropriate in a library don't do it in the quiet coach.
- Gadgets are fine as long as they're not bleeping.
- Clearer demarcation would be useful, along with a clearer explanation of expectations.
- In my experience, cyclists on GWR HSTs make the most noise, probably because they aren't choosing the quiet coach but the coach closest to their bike.
I wonder how the Quiet Coach Gestapo would react to one experience I had, where someone had brought their boxer dog into the quiet coach. It sat, very well behaved, at the far end, but unfortunately, boxer's aren't the quietest when it comes to breathing!
This is the pinnacle of rudeness in my view. I used to think it was a uniquely British thing but have recently observed it in Europe. And only yesterday I was riding Miami's Tri Rail service and a couple were watching something on YouTube at full volume - including swear words and n-words. It just beggars belief thay his is a worldwide problem!
Mobile phone jamming is illegal in most circumstances in the UK (on a train would probably be illegal too).
All Line Rover
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Generally that is considered appropriate when a topic has been discussed once before, let alone multiple times (for quiet coaches, I am sure at least ten times).
shredder1
Established Member
Multiple, 10??
is that since the war? Seriously if 10 posts already exist on this subject then I`m surprised this thread has had so many hits, surely this would suggest that it still has mileage behind the subject matter, and what happens when every possible subject has already been discussed? is that the end of the site? No subjects of this nature will reappear, I expect as opinions change and other posters notice the subject matter, surely it all contributes to an active and vibrant website.
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PudseyBearHST
Member
Multiple, 10??
I'm just mostly a lurker on this forum but I must admit I have this seen this topic come up quite a lot. Always an interesting one this topic as it seems to spark some controversy
I'll just add this: I was just needing a question and answer from a SWT document:
Question - Customers make a lot of noise in quiet carriages. I suggest that you announce this at stations and this will then cost nothing to fix.
Answer - The request that people try to keep noise to a minimum in a quiet zone isn’t a Railway Bylaw and thus isn’t a legal requirement. The rationale behind the policy was to offer an area of the train which was quieter, by encouraging customers who had purposely chosen to sit there to be more respectful of the noise made in that area. This policy is backed up by the labels we place in the designated area, showing that we would prefer customers not to use portable music equipment, to keep mobile phones on silent and to talk at a reasonable level when using the quiet zone.
Unfortunately I can't seem to find it anymore because they have changed their website, but I am pretty sure that on the SWT website it used to say that even though they have quiet coaches, this is not monitored by the (Commercial) Guard.
Perhaps the answer lies somewhere outside the box? Maybe TOCs should start selling Quiet Coach seats at a premium, say somewhere between Standard & First prices. This way people who don't want to book seats in it will not randomly find themselves there, and those that do want it can fund the extra duties that the train crew would need to undertake to manage controlling noise levels in them? Of course TOCs could save a bit of money by not having plug / USB sockets in them, as well as WiFi repeaters as obviously they would not be needed..... 
What all this does show me is how intolerant people in the country can sometimes be. You see it all the time, people boarding a busy train and pulling a face when they release that they are not going to get 4/6 seats to themselves, and might actually have to rub shoulders & maybe even interact with other human beings. The vast majority of passengers, yes even up here in t'grim North, are generally not creating more noise than a wide-bodied jet taking off, nor are they carrying some terminal infection or causing any kind of real distress to anyone. But the way some people act you would think that exposing them to others and anything more than a whisper is some form of cruel and unusual torture.
Quiet coaches are at best an optional luxury, not a right and certainly not something that should be covered by Byelaws. There are going to be times when it is simply not practicable to keep people from talking on phones, talking, or even daring to move, this is how life is, it doesn't always work the way you want. The bottom line is that if you use the train, you are almost certainly going to come into contact with other people and noise. It is not up to the operators, nor government departments to guarantee that you will be placed in a bubble, isolated from all this and legislate to punish anyone that upsets you. If TOCs continue to offer such facilities, be grateful that they are even making the effort because they don't have to. And if occasionally Mr Smith picks up the phone to talk to the office, or Mrs Jones rings forward to order a taxi to pick her up at the station, there is no point going into hissy fits about it. There are far, far more important things in the world to get stressed about. Learn to zone it out, look outside the window, or absorb yourself in a good book. It really isn't that hard when you try.
What all this does show me is how intolerant people in the country can sometimes be. You see it all the time, people boarding a busy train and pulling a face when they release that they are not going to get 4/6 seats to themselves, and might actually have to rub shoulders & maybe even interact with other human beings. The vast majority of passengers, yes even up here in t'grim North, are generally not creating more noise than a wide-bodied jet taking off, nor are they carrying some terminal infection or causing any kind of real distress to anyone. But the way some people act you would think that exposing them to others and anything more than a whisper is some form of cruel and unusual torture.
Quiet coaches are at best an optional luxury, not a right and certainly not something that should be covered by Byelaws. There are going to be times when it is simply not practicable to keep people from talking on phones, talking, or even daring to move, this is how life is, it doesn't always work the way you want. The bottom line is that if you use the train, you are almost certainly going to come into contact with other people and noise. It is not up to the operators, nor government departments to guarantee that you will be placed in a bubble, isolated from all this and legislate to punish anyone that upsets you. If TOCs continue to offer such facilities, be grateful that they are even making the effort because they don't have to. And if occasionally Mr Smith picks up the phone to talk to the office, or Mrs Jones rings forward to order a taxi to pick her up at the station, there is no point going into hissy fits about it. There are far, far more important things in the world to get stressed about. Learn to zone it out, look outside the window, or absorb yourself in a good book. It really isn't that hard when you try.
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
We don't want to make the fares structures even more complicated do we?
Far better to just quietly(!) abolish quiet carriages altogether.
Would one more level hurt though......
Seriously though, I would be all in favour to abolish them. They are just one more reason for some people to get angry! I'm not saying that trains should be do-as-you-please-and-stuff-everyone-else zones, everyone should have some respect for their fellow passengers, but Quiet Coaches do seem to cause more than their fair bit of upsets.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Would one more level hurt though......
I have wondered if there is room for a "business class", which would be 2+2 but at First Class spacing and with plenty of tables, a bit like the Voyager "hybrid coach".
I wouldn't rule out seeing that on HS2. Indeed, I'd be surprised not to.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I genuinely disagree, even if it isn't where I normally sit.
The rules should be defined, in the Byelaws, and enforced, with prosecutions if necessary (though the first line should be a simple "pack it in or move").
I also want to see some enforcement of the existing Byelaws surrounding noise, and some modifications to them, applying to all trains and stations at all times. At present playing a musical instrument or device out loud is an offence only if it causes annoyance, which means it is necessary to complain for enforcement, which can be awkward. I would like to see this change to an absolute prohibition, and enforced without being asked, as it is simply rude. Headphones are cheap and easily available. It is not ever acceptable in any setting, other than a private home, car, hotel room etc or an organised event, to play films etc out loud, yet antisocial people are doing it with increasing regularity. This is adding to the increasing noise pollution of modern life, and it is totally unnecessary.
Though to be fair, waffling announcements are as bad, and are of no benefit whatsoever to anyone. Static information not related to the operation of the service should go on static printed posters, and the "don't leave your bags lying around" and "see it, say it, sorted" nonsense no longer announced.
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No - why should we who enjoy a quiet travelling environment give up our quiet coaches just because some idiots can't respect it. In most cases its only one coach in each class - is it really too much to ask that people using these limited coaches respect the "rules". :-x
To try and legislate for something like this would require specific rules which can quickly be superseded by technology. For example, the 'No mobiles' rule comes from when a mobile phone was just that, a phone that was mobile, nothing more, nothing less. Now mobiles are anything from a mobile telephone, a mobile office, to an entertainment device. Would you really suggest that the rules define what functions may or may not be used, and then be reviewed every few years as technology marches on? It won't happen, as they are now the rules would quickly become out of date and not relevant.
As for the crux of the issue, noise, again to legislate you are going to have to set limits. Any vague drafting of what is deemed acceptable and what is not will quickly be challenged, and probably overruled. This is why this approach has never been taken. Remember this is a service offered by a few TOCs, most services do not have them. The rules, or more precisely are set by the individual TOCs and that is how it should stay. Either that or scrap the idea completely. Frankly the latter seems far more sensible than trying to legislate what is an acceptable amount of noise or disruption in a designated train carriage.
SteveP29
Member
Looks like I picked the wrong day to give up sniffing glue!!
[ ]not having plug / USB sockets in them, as well as WiFi repeaters as obviously they would not be needed.....
(except to power and provide connectivity to the notebook computer / tablet / phone which I'm using to work which might well be the reason I'm in the QC in the first place! If I can't work I might as well drive, very often provision of time in which I can work in peace and quiet is certainly an advantage, and sometimes a prerequisite, of choosing the train as the mode of transport for a given journey, and without that provision I'm much less likely to use the train at all. Sure, usually I can work fine in any coach, not just the QC, but sometimes, at certain times of day, or times of the week, the atmosphere in most of the train is not conducive, and at those times it's important that the conditions of the QC are respected in order for the train to remain a viable option.)
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