Questions about driving trains.

[TOCDriver]

From a personal point of view, I always have a monthly 10 minute or so meeting with my manager, assuming there are no operational incidents that have occurred in the interim. He basically asks me if I'm ok, any issues that I have, any problems blah, blah, blah. I don't know what data he uses to assess me, but I do know that brake running checks are absolutely critical whenever I take over a service or start one in a morning. I always makes sure I do them, that's for sure.

 

[GadgetMan]

Talking of which is there anyone here who is either a trainee driver or has less than two years driving experience ?

Trainee here, about 70 hours in. Just about digested the basics of the route; line speeds, coasting/braking points and major junction speeds.

Still got a away to go when it comes to less frequently used junctions/crossovers and shunting moves during engineering work/disruption.

 

[TDK]

Speaking of managers, are bosses (generally) always on your back at most toc's or are you left with a bit of space to get on and do the job? This question is more for experienced drivers rather than trainees/newly qualified.

Managers have a criteria to follow, so many assessments per year, I see my manager or a manager once a month as we have a monthly brief apart from that I hardly see them. Up to 2 years experience the post qualified drivers as they are called have more assessments than the more experienced drivers.
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You're allowed to do 3MPH over the limit right?

Its all down to gradients and trying to friendly to the unit as they say. I will shut off power near the top of a gradient and lose about 2 to 3 mph and then the speed will pick up down hill. Many companies these days are all for eco driving not only to save fuel but also for the carbon footprint.

 

[pnepaul]

Apologies if this has been asked already:

When crossing from fast line to slow line ( and vice versa!). How do you know when then last carriage has passed over the points in order for you to accelerate?

 

[RPM]

Apologies if this has been asked already:

When crossing from fast line to slow line ( and vice versa!). How do you know when then last carriage has passed over the points in order for you to accelerate?

Generally on passenger trains it is done by knowing the length of your train and exercising your judgement. I believe on the freight side there is some sort of device where the driver can input the SLU figure and it then tells him when he is clear of a speed restriction. Hopefully a freight driver will be along soon to explain in more detail.

 

[BravoGolfMike]

Managers have a criteria to follow, so many assessments per year, I see my manager or a manager once a month as we have a monthly brief apart from that I hardly see them. Up to 2 years experience the post qualified drivers as they are called have more assessments than the more experienced drivers.

Monthly? Have you been naughty?

 

[A-driver]

Apologies if this has been asked already:

When crossing from fast line to slow line ( and vice versa!). How do you know when then last carriage has passed over the points in order for you to accelerate?

Same as how you know when past any speed restriction, permanent or temporary, judgement and experience. Often in tunnels you purely have to count past the restriction as there are no landmarks to use.

 

[W230]

Talking of which is there anyone here who is either a trainee driver or has less than two years driving experience ?

Yarp.

 

[notadriver]

Well I've found work quite hard today. With the drizzle today and leaf fall season in full swing I had to keep my wits about me on an outer suburban route with typical maximum speeds of at least 80 mph between stops. Not for the faint hearted and I certainly didn't feel overpaid today.

 

[Rich McLean]

Apologies if this has been asked already:

When crossing from fast line to slow line ( and vice versa!). How do you know when then last carriage has passed over the points in order for you to accelerate?

With Route knowledge and traction knowledge combined, you work out how many seconds it takes for example a 4, 8 or 12 car train to clear the points at a certain speed at a certain location, or going from say a 75 to a 90. Once you have done it a few times, for example you will know that an 8 coach train travelling at 40mph going into a 75mph, will take around 9 seconds to clear the speed board (not accurate measurement, depends on stock and location), after which you apply power. 4 coach train 5 seconds etc etc.

 

[Jydo]

Here is a "dumb" question.....

How can you tell the difference between a "down line" and an "up line"? Is this based on the north and south compass direction? Surely not as you also have trains running from east/west obviously? I live in Bellshill & often deliver packages into both DBS & Freightliners who have depots across from each other, DBS are in the Mossend Down Yard but are at the left hand side of the track as trains head north (Motherwell to Cumbernauld) . There is no track that runs directly to Glasgow so freight trains go round the curve onto the Shotts line heading to Edinburgh then straighten up & wait at a signal then power up & head west. I'm drifting off topic here a bit I know by babbling on...........please be nice

 

[jopsuk]

I'm not a driver, but I can make a stab at this. Originally, "UP" would be towards the HQ of the company that built the line. Thus, radiating from London, "UP" is (almost entirely?) towards London

 

[Eagle]

With very few exceptions*, down is the direction of increasing mileposts.

*such as the approach to Marylebone

Of course that's a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation. I believe the up and down designations came first.

 

[Moonshot]

I have a question which migh sound a bit dumb, but if you were driving a fairly long freight train , how would you know if one of the vehicles at the back has de railed? Is their a warning in the cab?

 

[Domh245]

Up / Down: I've been told by a VT driver that all trains go up to London, and Down to the country (eg Up from Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston)

As for derailing, I'd imagine that there would be a noticeable juddering as the vehicle started to run over the sleepers, or collide with lineside equipment. In the worst case, the vehicle would detach and the fail-safe aspect of the braking system would kick in and the Brakes would come on. Lastly, you might only learn about it when you get a message from the line controller, screaming at you to stop (or similar, using the correct procedures )

 

[142094]

I have a question which migh sound a bit dumb, but if you were driving a fairly long freight train , how would you know if one of the vehicles at the back has de railed? Is their a warning in the cab?

If the air pipe splits, the brakes would automatically come on as a failsafe. However a wagon can derail and leave the air pipe intact, so either the driver hears the sound of the wagon dragging on the ballast and sleepers, or another driver etc reports it.

 

[Tomnick]

With very few exceptions*, down is the direction of increasing mileposts.

*such as the approach to Marylebone

Of course that's a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation. I believe the up and down designations came first.

I'm not sure about the chicken and the egg - I reckon you're about spot on. The best explanation that I've heard is that, in the days when trains in both directions would be shown on a single table, those heading away from the most important station (at the top of the list) would go down the page, whilst those in the opposite direction would go up the page. Since the mileage was usually specified on the same basis (away from zero at the most important station), it all ties in nicely (and the exceptions are usually where the up/down designation has been reversed at some point, as indeed it was on the GC's London Extension) .

 

[Moonshot]

If the air pipe splits, the brakes would automatically come on as a failsafe. However a wagon can derail and leave the air pipe intact, so either the driver hears the sound of the wagon dragging on the ballast and sleepers, or another driver etc reports it.

So there is potentail for a freight train to travel a fair distance in that condition?
How would a driver hear that over the noise of a diesel?

 

[Rugd1022]

So there is potentail for a freight train to travel a fair distance in that condition?
How would a driver hear that over the noise of a diesel?

It's entirely possible and has happened in the past. You can hear the NRN calls or GSM-R over the noise of the engine!

 

[evoluzione]

Up / Down: I've been told by a VT driver that all trains go up to London, and Down to the country (eg Up from Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston)))

Doesn't quite work out like that.

Man Vic is at 0m 0ch and all lines into the station are UP on both East and West sides.

They change designation halfway along the platform.

 

[asylumxl]

It's entirely possible and has happened in the past. You can hear the NRN calls or GSM-R over the noise of the engine!

It's not just limited to freight trains though. As I'm sure you know, it happened with a 222 to the south of Leicester after the final drive failed, damaging quite a lot of track.

It's hard for a driver to know what's going on behind them really.

 

[Moonshot]

here is one that might be a bit tricky.....how often do drivers give up the job as a result of being unable to cope with the mental after affects of a suicide?

 

[krus_aragon]

I'm not a driver, but I can make a stab at this. Originally, "UP" would be towards the HQ of the company that built the line. Thus, radiating from London, "UP" is (almost entirely?) towards London

Almost universally. However, in the South Wales coalfields, the practice seemed to be to follow the local geography instead. The Taff Vale Railway (Cardiff - Merthyr and branches) had their UP line going up the valley and DOWN coming back down again, even though their headquarters were in Cardiff.

Furthermore, the amalgamation of independent railways, subsequent closure of some routes and various other things have also changed which way UP and DOWN point in some areas.

 

[ungreat]

here is one that might be a bit tricky.....how often do drivers give up the job as a result of being unable to cope with the mental after affects of a suicide?

Not many. I had a bad one two and a half years ago,and never thought about giving the job up,but some have.

 

[edwin_m]

I think the usual reason for designating Up and Down is to try to minimise changes of designation for the principal traffic flows. Obviously this has to happen at triangular junctions and some other places but it is normally on the least important route or at least the one that was seen as such at the time. There would also have been a reluctance to swap the directions previously defined for a particular route without a good reason, because of the number of signal box diagrams, drawings, equipment labels etc that would need changing but also because of the risk of staff confusion.

One of the best known examples of "Up" being northwards north of London is the Midland to Derby from (at one time) Bath and Bristol. However this aligns with the direction of the most important connecting lines at Birmingham and Bristol and although it reverses in Derby, London trains originally left this station at the other end so Up may have been in the other direction here at one time. The Midland from Derby to London is also "Up", so I don't think this situation can be ascribed to the Midland headquarters being in Derby as is sometimes suggested.

Similarly having "Up" to Manchester Victoria also means that the L&Y network aligns in direction at most of the main junctions with other companies, the main surviving exception being south of Preston where the East Lancs never went to Victoria anyway and the line to Ormskirk and Liverpool ("Up" throughout) was probably considered the principal route at the time.
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(and the exceptions are usually where the up/down designation has been reversed at some point, as indeed it was on the GC's London Extension) .

Not doubting you but I'd be interested to know if you could cite a source for the GC making this change or any details of how and why. As I suggested in my previous post I think it would be quite difficult to do and I would have thought the GC had more important things to worry about!

 

[Tomnick]

Not doubting you but I'd be interested to know if you could cite a source for the GC making this change or any details of how and why. As I suggested in my previous post I think it would be quite difficult to do and I would have thought the GC had more important things to worry about!

Hmm, on reflection, I'm not so sure . It's often been stated as fact that the directions were reversed at some point, quite early in the railway's history - the mileage (increasing in the Up direction) supports it, but my GCR colleague (having extensively researched the line's history) hasn't found any real evidence of a change. Perhaps it's one to add to the ever-increasing list of railway myths!

 

[Eagle]

I'd've thought it would have changed round when the GCML north of Claydon closed in the 1960s, making the line a very obviously London/commuter one. (Bearing in mind that long-distance services via the Wycombe line still went into Paddington at this time.)

 

[edwin_m]

I'd've thought it would have changed round when the GCML north of Claydon closed in the 1960s, making the line a very obviously London/commuter one. (Bearing in mind that long-distance services via the Wycombe line still went into Paddington at this time.)

I had a check of the signal box diagrams on the Signalbox website. The oldest on the GC main line is Grendon Underwood in 1903 and that had Up towards London. This also pre-dates the various GWR connections which could perhaps have been another trigger for reversing the designation of directions.

I can't imagine the change would have been made so soon after the line was built, though it is possible that it was made after the design of the civil engineering (including the mileposts) and before the design of the signalling (for which the designation of up and down would have been essential).

 

[Eagle]

Or alternatively they made "up" and "down" the conventional London-centric way round, but made the mileposts an extension of one of their existing lines (presumably Woodhead) that counted out from Manchester.

 

[Tomnick]

Indeed, a change at some point prior to opening seems the only sensible possibility remaining. It's only just occurred to me (despite a fairly deep interest in the railways of the Lincolnshire for many years!) that the mileage on the whole of the former MS&LR line from Manchester to Cleethorpes increases in the Up direction too, so, unless this was changed around the time of the opening of the London Extension, it'd suggest that it has always been so!

I'd've thought it would have changed round when the GCML north of Claydon closed in the 1960s, making the line a very obviously London/commuter one. (Bearing in mind that long-distance services via the Wycombe line still went into Paddington at this time.)

Up had definitely been towards London for some time before that - the preserved GCR is Up towards London, as are the few other remaining bits of the line around Sheffield and Manchester.