Questions about driving trains.

[Cherry_Picker]

A Kidderminster - Marylebone train swaps en route. It's on the down (Paddington) as far as Stourbridge Junction before changing to the up at the junction.

 

[A-driver]

Here is a "dumb" question.....

How can you tell the difference between a "down line" and an "up line"? Is this based on the north and south compass direction? Surely not as you also have trains running from east/west obviously? I live in Bellshill & often deliver packages into both DBS & Freightliners who have depots across from each other, DBS are in the Mossend Down Yard but are at the left hand side of the track as trains head north (Motherwell to Cumbernauld) . There is no track that runs directly to Glasgow so freight trains go round the curve onto the Shotts line heading to Edinburgh then straighten up & wait at a signal then power up & head west. I'm drifting off topic here a bit I know by babbling on...........please be nice

If you mean 'how does a driver tell the difference between the up and dune line' then regardless of why it's called that we know the difference through route knowledge. Part of learning your route is learning the names of every line and loop (eg up/ down, fast/slow, loop, siding, relief/main etc). For example around Finsbury park we have up slow1, up slow 2, up fast, up goods, down goods, down slow 1, down slow 2, down fast, down carriage etc. and you know which is which purely by learning it.

 

[Moonshot]

A few weeks ago, I happen to notice a Pendolino pulling in at Piccadilly with the remains of a pheasant stuck on the front - how often do trains suffer bird strikes on windscreens?

 

[A-driver]

A few weeks ago, I happen to notice a Pendolino pulling in at Piccadilly with the remains of a pheasant stuck on the front - how often do trains suffer bird strikes on windscreens?

It's certainly not unusual, normally the bird ricochets off the windscreen though.

I have had them caught on the windscreen wipers of 365s before which can be interesting when running into platforms watching all the children looking horrified! Most fall off quickly but a few get stuck and need removing with the manual uncoupling bar. Most I have ever got in one trip is 6 on a down Cambridge cruiser, 2 at Woolmer green, 3 at ashwell and 1 at meldreth. All on the windscreen and it looked a right state by Cambridge, puddles of blood and feathers all over it but all the birds had bounced off.

 

[Domh245]

I've seen a pigeon physically wedged underneath the wiper assembly on a voyager at Manchester Piccadilly. The alarming bit was the fact that it was at the southbound end of the train, meaning that it would have been there for the entirety of the last journey which would have been at least 3 hours, unless the daft bird flew into the back of the train - which I don't think would have been physically possible.

 

[Eagle]

I've seen a video of a pigeon hitting the front of a Pendolino at just the right angle to bounce up and hit the OHL. Not pretty hock:

 

[90019]

I've seen a video of a pigeon hitting the front of a Pendolino at just the right angle to bounce up and hit the OHL. Not pretty hock:

That'd be this one, presumably.

 

[PermitToTravel]

How common is it for a bird's carcass to remain in a coupler? I've seen this once and thought that it looked pretty unlikely

 

[RPM]

Warning: Images of dead birds below

A pheasant hit, buried in the GRP of a 168 front valance:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28121598@N03/5030778069/in/photolist-8Ey43V-e7dV7k-dqUZDs-bynDUe

And my personal bird hit best, 12 in 1 London -Birmingham journey:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmarks/8209057741/

 

[Lockwood]

Does your route knowledge training kick in outside of work as well? (Whether you want it to or not)

"I am driving to Tesco. When I reach the end of my road, I have a 600 yard drive along a level road until I come to a pelican crossing. From there there is a downhill gradient and 0.8 miles (straight, left bend, right bend, straight, right bend) to the roundabout when I must take Exit Three to Kings Road. Kings Road continues on the downhill gradient for a quarter of a mile then has a steeper uphill gradient for 400 yards. 50 yards up the incline is a zebra crossing serving the Co-op"

 

[Eagle]

"I am driving to Tesco. When I reach the end of my road, I have a 600 yard drive along a level road until I come to a pelican crossing. From there there is a downhill gradient and 0.8 miles (straight, left bend, right bend, straight, right bend) to the roundabout when I must take Exit Three to Kings Road. Kings Road continues on the downhill gradient for a quarter of a mile then has a steeper uphill gradient for 400 yards. 50 yards up the incline is a zebra crossing serving the Co-op"

That's basically what the inside of my head sounds like during driving lessons.

 

[Lockwood]

Ok, I'll do commentated runs as well, but that's more "What I see now" rather than describing the route.

More along the lines of "Junction coming up on the right, car emerging from junction. Junction ahead on left, junction is clear. Second junction on left, one car signalling right and waiting. Pedestrians crossing road ahead, now clear. Still clear behind, 1 van ahead, 2 cars approaching."

 

[notadriver]

I'm a coach driver as well as a train driver and whilst all the road features you mention are there they are of little consequence as by and large a car / coach can react very quickly. I'm more concerned with going around a corner or judging the width of the vehicle in a coach.

On the other hand I've been concerned with the train. Accelerating and braking rates have been reduced by the autumn weather requiring further forward planning than is usual. Judging whether the train is slowing down properly from 100 mph for the next station stop at night time takes some skill. Too much braking and the service will lose time unnecessarily. Too little braking and the train will fail to stop in the platform.

 

[Nym]

Does your route knowledge training kick in outside of work as well? (Whether you want it to or not)

"I am driving to Tesco. When I reach the end of my road, I have a 600 yard drive along a level road until I come to a pelican crossing. From there there is a downhill gradient and 0.8 miles (straight, left bend, right bend, straight, right bend) to the roundabout when I must take Exit Three to Kings Road. Kings Road continues on the downhill gradient for a quarter of a mile then has a steeper uphill gradient for 400 yards. 50 yards up the incline is a zebra crossing serving the Co-op"

When I was driving refridgerated vehicles I got like that on a few routes, I'm sure I could drive from an industrial estate in Bolton to just north of Thirsk with my eyes closed...

 

[westcoaster]

A few weeks ago, I happen to notice a Pendolino pulling in at Piccadilly with the remains of a pheasant stuck on the front - how often do trains suffer bird strikes on windscreens?

Happens quite often, pigeons and pheasants are the most common ones to hit, on the Brighton main line just south of balcombe the must be a pheasant farm as the track is littered with dead birds, some times you come through and take out numerous birds just looking at you. Hit one there the other month and took a direct hit on the second mans side window screen on a 377 shattered the window, luckily it held its integrity sounded like a bomb going of.

 

[millemille]

It's certainly not unusual, normally the bird ricochets off the windscreen though.

I have had them caught on the windscreen wipers of 365s before which can be interesting when running into platforms watching all the children looking horrified! Most fall off quickly but a few get stuck and need removing with the manual uncoupling bar. Most I have ever got in one trip is 6 on a down Cambridge cruiser, 2 at Woolmer green, 3 at ashwell and 1 at meldreth. All on the windscreen and it looked a right state by Cambridge, puddles of blood and feathers all over it but all the birds had bounced off.

Used to be a standing joke at Hornsey in the morning production meeting....

"Why was 3655** pulled from service yesterday?"

"Driver reported he couldn't couple 'cos had a bird stuck on his face..."

"WHAT?"

"Pheasant....on the auto connector face...."

"Arf, ROFL, etc"

 

[WestCountry]

Apologies if this has been asked before, but what are the traction knowledge requirements for operating a mixed train of units? If you're driving a 153 + 170 set from the 153, do you need to be trained on the 170 (in case of failure etc) despite not having to use its controls directly?

 

[notadriver]

You must be fully passed on both forms of traction.

 

[A-driver]

Apologies if this has been asked before, but what are the traction knowledge requirements for operating a mixed train of units? If you're driving a 153 + 170 set from the 153, do you need to be trained on the 170 (in case of failure etc) despite not having to use its controls directly?

As above, you need to sign everything in the consist unless you are dead hauling but even though you may be booked to drive from the 153 you still couldn't garuntee not needing to use the 170 controls-the consist may come out in reverse for whatever reason, a fault may require you to box the leading cab of the 153 in so it would have to be driven from the 170, you would need to recognise faults and failiures on both units plus indications of faults from the other unit (I remember it getting a little complicated recognising some door faults in a 455+456 consist as both have different door systems).

It's also highly unlikely you would only ever be booked to drive a train like that one way.

 

[Lockwood]

I'm guessing that dead hauling would be stuff like stock delivery drags?

If it were a triple unit made up in an A-B-A format and diagrammed to be kept as that triple throughout, I'm inferring that you would still need to be signed off on B?

 

[notadriver]

You would to know some basic things about B such as where the brake isolating cocks are and so forth.

 

[A-driver]

I'm guessing that dead hauling would be stuff like stock delivery drags?

If it were a triple unit made up in an A-B-A format and diagrammed to be kept as that triple throughout, I'm inferring that you would still need to be signed off on B?

You would still have to sign the entire consist weather you would be driving from it or not. If you had a 170-153-170 consist for example then you would need to know that a 153 has a lower speed, know brake characteristics, know enough about faults and failiures, indications, equipment locations etc.

Signing a unit isn't really about the cab alone.

 

[TDK]

Happens quite often, pigeons and pheasants are the most common ones to hit, on the Brighton main line just south of balcombe the must be a pheasant farm as the track is littered with dead birds, some times you come through and take out numerous birds just looking at you. Hit one there the other month and took a direct hit on the second mans side window screen on a 377 shattered the window, luckily it held its integrity sounded like a bomb going of.

I managed to wedge a seagull into the coupling of a 158. I have a photo somewhere but it is not nice to look at.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Monthly? Have you been naughty?

No it's company policy to see a manager for a monthly safety brief that takes 10 minutes or so.

 

[Bill EWS]

From the old school when the guard at the rear gave a wave of his arm or hand lamp to tell you when you had cleared the speed restriction. However with single manning you went by the length of the train and took mental checks of where the average length would clear and work from that. A fixed object would suffice. With trains such a freightliner, coal or oil train which usually had virtually the same number of vehicles each time you got that spot fixed in your mind pretty good. Later the train length train indictor, which you typed into the computer prior to departing from a yard or freight terminal would do the job. As you approached the speed warning indictor you pressd the indicator and it would start the count down by feet and yards and give a little bleep as you approached the last three or four numbers, when you would start applying power to get going again, by which time the train had cleared the restriction.

 

[Lockwood]

Another logisticsy question...

there have been the odd engineers trains from time to time, think Easter 2011 was the most recent occasion
<Photo of EWS 66>

Given something like this where there is a very uncommon movement, how does route knowledge enter into this?
I'm guessing that the don't train and regularly update every EWS driver on a route that rarely used.

And then, just as I was typing that I had a lightbulb moment. Do they send the EWS 66 driver to drive that with a driver that is signed on the route as a secondman?

 

[notadriver]

Yes exactly pilotman can be used. This will obviously be another driver.

 

[Lockwood]

I'm guessing that there are restrictions on speed in place when you are running like that, since you've got to allow for communication between the two people rather than one person knowing and doing at the same time?
If this is the case, is it a thing of "go slower to allow time to communicate" or "Do not travel in excess of X mph"?

 

[A-driver]

Another logisticsy question...



Given something like this where there is a very uncommon movement, how does route knowledge enter into this?
I'm guessing that the don't train and regularly update every EWS driver on a route that rarely used.

And then, just as I was typing that I had a lightbulb moment. Do they send the EWS 66 driver to drive that with a driver that is signed on the route as a secondman?

Often if a freight company has a new contract or new movement they will arrange for drivers involved to go road learning in the weeks before. If it's a one off they may strike the road off their cards afterwards. Or on occasion they may hire a pilot from another toc or foc.

 

[edwin_m]

Are these extra drivers for route knowledge actually referred to as "pilot" or "pilotman"? I would have thought there was obvious scope for confusion with the person who supervises "manual" single line working - not a good mistake to make!

 

[notadriver]

Let me see - correct me if I'm wrong someone. Another train driver can be conducted or piloted over a route by another driver but they are not a pilotman and a pilotman for single line working is not a driver.