Public TRUST system

[WelshBluebird]

It will be announced at least once for every service and the info will be displayed on the customer information screens

I am pretty sure this is not always done. Maybe it is only at FGW managed stations? As I am pretty sure it does not happen at Cardiff Central.

 

[ValleyLines142]

I am pretty sure this is not always done. Maybe it is only at FGW managed stations? As I am pretty sure it does not happen at Cardiff Central.

Doesn't happen at Cardiff no, but does happen at Bristol Temple Meads, Bristol Parkway, Filton Abbey Wood and Exeter St David's, so mainly FGW stations yes.

 

[Mintona]

I like the idea of a 'flightradar' style map with trains moving about. I'm not sure if it'd technically be possible, but would be useful for passengers to see where there trains are.

 

[87015]

I like the idea of a 'flightradar' style map with trains moving about. I'm not sure if it'd technically be possible, but would be useful for passengers to see where there trains are.

Something like this which MAV Traction provide? http://iemig.mav-trakcio.hu/3.0/

There is a service mapper which tallies up with it to see what is working what, but I'll be damned if I can find the link at the moment.

 

[atwales]

I dont see any reason why this information shouldn't be public, why shouldn't it - what is the harm?

Its a great benefit for all those spotters, not a great deal to know the exact unit number to commuters but it would be beneficial for spotters...

I think it would be great if a petition or something like that happened, or it would be good if you could pay for a license..

What is the worse that could happen with this information public?

 

[The Planner]

It is a system that provides an awful lot more than just unit numbers, unless you can filter the data so that is the only thing it dumps out then I cannot see it ever happening.

 

[bb21]

Doesn't knowing where exactly a unit will be ruin the majority of the fun associated with spotting? The anticipation, the unpredictability, ...

If everyone knows where everything is then where is the challenge in completing a class? You could then clear all the Voyagers in perhaps a couple of weeks.

I don't understand how releasing all this information really benefits spotters?

 

[Ferret]

BB21, info on rare workings is great - I'm a 'grapher as my signature line suggests and I love nothing more than getting what I consider to be a decent photo. What I don't get is why people want to know what 150 is working the Paignton branch, or what 142 is on the Cardiff Bay vice 121. I mean, are people's lives that empty that they need to know that kind of crap?! Railway enthusiasm is a hobby, not the be all and the end all. Having a 'look how big my cock is' competition with other spotters because you know what 150227 is doing is ultimately meaningless - please get over it and get a life!

 

[bb21]

BB21, info on rare workings is great - I'm a 'grapher as my signature line suggests and I love nothing more than getting what I consider to be a decent photo. What I don't get is why people want to know what 150 is working the Paignton branch, or what 142 is on the Cardiff Bay vice 121. I mean, are people's lives that empty that they need to know that kind of crap?! Railway enthusiasm is a hobby, not the be all and the end all. Having a 'look how big my cock is' competition with other spotters because you know what 150227 is doing is ultimately meaningless - please get over it and get a life!

Yes, and information on rare workings can always be obtained by asking at a place like here. If there is one unit left someone is chasing after, the information is not exactly difficult to find with so many different forums one can ask questions in.

 

[Temple Meads]

Although I can't seriously see it happening, an open site that published workings would be something I would use (and not for c**k waving purposes, purely out of curiosity), and to the people who say such things as "it would take the surprise away", you could quite easily go out spotting/photting without looking at the site.

Oh and some people don't have lives outside the hobby, so knowing what unit is working the Paignton branch would enrich whatever half life they do have

 

[Ferret]

Yes, and information on rare workings can always be obtained by asking at a place like here. If there is one unit left someone is chasing after, the information is not exactly difficult to find with so many different forums one can ask questions in.

Quite. Plenty of people (me included) will happily tell people such trivia regarding what their last 150 or whatever is up to if I'm on duty and can find out. It's the 'one-upmanship' piffle that I don't see the point of.

 

[trentside]

I'm not a spotter by any means, but I've been attempting to clear the EMT fleet for my own interest - only counting units I travel on. I've had all the 153s for near on six months, except 153308 which has eluded me, and despite having access to TRUST at work I've never been tempted to track down its working and go out later in the day to catch it - I've enjoyed the mystery of waiting for it to turn up. It did finally, last week working a Doncaster service - finally got the red pen (or green highlighter!) treatment!

I personally much prefer not knowing, always makes things more interesting and fun!

 

[Michael.Y]

What is the worse that could happen with this information public?

Terrorism, organised crime, drug trafficking.... It would be very easy to track the movements of a specific unit so as to find out where it would be at a particular time, hide something on board (in a seat cover, or behind a loose panel etc) and organise nefarious activities around it.

Extreme examples but not unthinkable.

TRUST is industry-only data. You spotters will have to make do with realtime train info and your notebooks. Get over it.

 

[snail]

Terrorism, organised crime, drug trafficking.... It would be very easy to track the movements of a specific unit so as to find out where it would be at a particular time, hide something on board (in a seat cover, or behind a loose panel etc) and organise nefarious activities around it.

Ooh, I must look out for the drugs runner opening panels next time I'm on a 150.

 

[Goatboy]

Terrorism, organised crime, drug trafficking.... It would be very easy to track the movements of a specific unit so as to find out where it would be at a particular time, hide something on board (in a seat cover, or behind a loose panel etc) and organise nefarious activities around it.

Extreme examples but not unthinkable.

Ridiculous hyperbole. You'd have been better answering with 'I don't know'.

 

[Aictos]

End of the day there is no need for a staff only database to be made available to the public for the simple reason that there is more then enough places which can supply the information IF used properly.

For example, I could use TRUST to track down 91107 BUT there's no need as 1.) East Coast advise on their Twitter account what services its on for that day and 2.) Sites like WNXX would have had the info anyway.

TRUST isn't just used by staff to get a advantage over the public to spot various trains but is used in a number of roles to help staff in their day to day roles such as platform staff, delay attribution clerks, Network Rail etc...

I just wish people would grow up and learn there are alternatives that are staring them in the face :roll:

 

[Temple Meads]

I just wish people would grow up and learn there are alternatives that are staring them in the face :roll:

True, but they are only really fine for the important stuff, I wouldn't want to bother staff or the WNXX forum by asking "What power car is on the back of 1C98?" repeatedly for example.

 

[michael769]

Terrorism, organised crime, drug trafficking.... It would be very easy to track the movements of a specific unit so as to find out where it would be at a particular time, hide something on board (in a seat cover, or behind a loose panel etc) and organise nefarious activities around it.

Extreme examples but not unthinkable.

The information to do what you describe is already in the public domain via a number of real time sites, including some operated by the railway itself.

 

[FGW_DID]

Quite frankly some ridiculous arguments on this thread, there seems to be some crossed lines here, some people are talking full access to railway IT systems, others are talking about data being made available to the public. Whilst the former should never happen, I see no reason why certain data should not be available to software developers to enable a public friendly application ( as we have seen with Real Time Trains etc etc).

One IT system I would like to see a public version of is P2:
Live mapping
Train consist
Diagram
Running info

Now that would be a best seller app!

 

[Michael.Y]

The information to do what you describe is already in the public domain via a number of real time sites, including some operated by the railway itself.

Really? Please show me the website where I can easily and readily find out today's movements for 390001, 150282 and 175109, including at what time they're booked to go to their depots etc.

 

[The Planner]

What you are refering to there normally requires TOPS, which is just as difficult within the industry to get, let alone the providing the info outside.

 

[Qwerty133]

I'm not a spotter by any means, but I've been attempting to clear the EMT fleet for my own interest - only counting units I travel on. I've had all the 153s for near on six months, except 153308 which has eluded me, and despite having access to TRUST at work I've never been tempted to track down its working and go out later in the day to catch it - I've enjoyed the mystery of waiting for it to turn up. It did finally, last week working a Doncaster service - finally got the red pen (or green highlighter!) treatment!

I personally much prefer not knowing, always makes things more interesting and fun!

EMT obivously like you as it is a piece of s*** that is litterally falling apart (cant remember the last time i saw it without at least 1 bit of the cealing falling down)

 

[snail]

Really? Please show me the website where I can easily and readily find out today's movements for 390001, 150282 and 175109, including at what time they're booked to go to their depots etc.

Do you really think that information can't be found? I thought your first post was a little naive but this trumps it.

 

[Poggs]

Terrorism, organised crime, drug trafficking.... It would be very easy to track the movements of a specific unit so as to find out where it would be at a particular time, hide something on board (in a seat cover, or behind a loose panel etc) and organise nefarious activities around it.

Extreme examples but not unthinkable.

TRUST is industry-only data. You spotters will have to make do with realtime train info and your notebooks. Get over it.

There's no need for anyone to get over it - http://datafeeds.networkrail.co.uk has TRUST real-time movement data and anyone who's interested is free to sign up and use the data feeds. There's VSTP and TSR data in there too, even real-time data from every TD that is connected to SMART.

On the subject of unit allocations - I am working with Network Rail on transparency and Open Data, and looking at the feasibility of making data from GEMINI accessible amongst other things. (As far as I'm aware, TRUST doesn't have unit allocations, but makes a request to GEMINI to provide the data).

 

[Mr395008]

Genius has info on crew etc...although I've yet to check it out myself as my log in still doesn't work. :/

 

[atwales]

There's no need for anyone to get over it - http://datafeeds.networkrail.co.uk has TRUST real-time movement data and anyone who's interested is free to sign up and use the data feeds. There's VSTP and TSR data in there too, even real-time data from every TD that is connected to SMART.

On the subject of unit allocations - I am working with Network Rail on transparency and Open Data, and looking at the feasibility of making data from GEMINI accessible amongst other things. (As far as I'm aware, TRUST doesn't have unit allocations, but makes a request to GEMINI to provide the data).

Tried signing up, however I clicked sign up and the webpage just reloaded, although I did see on the site it said a maximum of 500 users, I'm guessing they've been taken up with all the people on here..

Just to clarify, using this free data system, you can collect unit movements by inputting a unit number, or see what unit is working a particular service etc??

Thanks!

 

[Freightmaster]

Just to clarify, using this free data system, you can collect unit movements by inputting a unit number, or see what unit is working a particular service etc??

No - such information is (currently) restricted to internal railway systems
as there is no proven need for the public to have access to it, although it
sounds like Poggs is working to change that!!

But until such time as info is made available to the public, as others
have said, if you are after a particular unit, you either have to go
out 'on spec' and wait for it to turn up or ask nicely on here and
a member of railway staff with access to the appropriate systems
may be able to assist you.

But once you know that a particular unit you want to see is working
a partucular train, RTT and opentimes can then tell you its next working(s),
including empty stock movements.


MARK

 

[D1009]

There is not much information in the TRUST system that actually needs to be confidential, the only thing I can think of is explanations for delay where individuals are named, and arguably this information shouldn't really be in TRUST, managers who need to know this info will know how to get hold of it. As for GENIUS, GEMINI, TOPS etc what exactly is the problem with making it public, there have been many posts on here indicating that people are interested in the information, whether they need to be or not is irrelevant. I suppose the thing which worries people most is the potential damage which could be caused by ill informed journalists trying to make something of it, and there is enough of that already.

 

[Tom C]

As a TRUST and GENIUS user I cannot work out what you actually want from it.

GENIUS is a fleet tool. It is used to track mileage on units and give the guys in fleet an idea of what units to go on what diagrams to keep maintenance in check. The only reason we use GENIUS in control is to feed CIS systems with formations and to keep your allocations up to date. Unless you have a deep and meaningful wish to know when 317337 is due its next major exam or you have a disturbing knowledge of carriage workings to know where its allocated then its pretty much useless.

As for TRUST, well the TOPS line ups are of minor amusement in the quieter moments and if you need to look up a Stannox for a VSTP then its of some use but most systems overtook TRUST years ago. Unless you are a delay attribution clerk it doesn't serve up any real thrills, its just an out of date system that we have to use because we don't have anything better.

Oh and 337 was on 93 carriage working today if you were interested.......

 

[AlexS]

I love TRUST - it's great for signalmen and stations! I get it to do a nice little print out of all my train times, headcodes and unit numbers for my platforms for the shift and it's far easier to stick in a pocket than an A&D book. It all fits on A5 size bits of paper I can shove away and scribble on my assistance jobs and any other miscellaneous things to remember like reservations to put on board to my heart's desire.

I also quite like the journey planning side of it.