Progress on Avanti West Coast's 805/807s Hitachi AT300 sets

[norbitonflyer]

Blackpool train is 1705 (arrives Blackpool 2000)

Sorry - misread my notes

 

[Mogz]

Reading the latest issue of Rail Express and it states ‘The seven car EMU (807) were ordered for the Euston to Liverpool Line Street route, while they will operate on that routes the planned two trains per hour between the cities has been shelved’.

So a reduction from 9-11 car trains to 7 car for Liverpool but with no increase in frequency?

What was intended to be an increase to 14 carriages per hour will be a reduction to 7.

Another example of “pack them in to save money”, no doubt!

 

[hexagon789]

So a reduction from 9-11 car trains to 7 car for Liverpool but with no increase in frequency?

What was intended to be an increase to 14 carriages per hour will be a reduction to 7.

Another example of “pack them in to save money”, no doubt!

The intention was one 807 and one 390 each per hour.

The 807s also have comparable capacity to a 9-car Pendolino, they actually have more Standard Class seats than a 390/0.

 

[AJDesiro]

So a reduction from 9-11 car trains to 7 car for Liverpool but with no increase in frequency?

What was intended to be an increase to 14 carriages per hour will be a reduction to 7.

Another example of “pack them in to save money”, no doubt!

A 7 car has 40 more standard class seats than a 9 car 390 anyway, despite their lower density interior. The original plan was to have 1tph 807 and 1tph 390, not 2tph 807.

 

[Mogz]

A 7 car has 40 more standard class seats than a 9 car 390 anyway, despite their lower density interior. The original plan was to have 1tph 807 and 1tph 390, not 2tph 807.

Ah! I see. Of course! There’s a considerable portion of the end cars of a Pendolino that don’t have any seats- not the case with an 807.

Good to see that they have also resolved the issue of over provision of First Class seating and under-provision of Standard.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The Echo piece quotes Avanti as saying 10 more Liverpool services a week from December, and 30 more from May.
Not clear how that breaks down daily, or how many will be 807s.

 

[hexagon789]

The Echo piece quotes Avanti as saying 10 more Liverpool services a week from December, and 30 more from May.
Not clear how that breaks down daily, or how many will be 807s.

2 per day Mon-Fri, been in RTT for a while to view:

1307 and 1602 fron Euston
0902 and 1004 from Liverpool

Should be all 390s.

 

[frodshamfella]

When does this become a full service ?

 

[hexagon789]

When does this become a full service ?

Well the railway media claimed it had been 'shelved', but as we've seen - there are two extras in December then another three from May.

Perhaps they might achieve December 2025 for the full hourly second service?

Assuming that is still planned and not simply some extra workings at busy times or something.

 

[Peter Sarf]

The Echo piece quotes Avanti as saying 10 more Liverpool services a week from December, and 30 more from May.
Not clear how that breaks down daily, or how many will be 807s.

30 more services to Liverpool from May cannot be right ?. That sounds like better then half hourly for all of the core day ?.

I notice 807001 only got as far South as Stafford this morning on 1A99

Realtime Trains | 1A99 0901 Liverpool Lime Street to Stafford | 12/11/2024

Real-time train running information for 1A99 0901 departure from Liverpool Lime Street to Stafford on 12/11/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Which 807s are so far accepted for passenger service ?.

 

[hexagon789]

30 more services to Liverpool from May cannot be right ?. That sounds like better then half hourly for all of the core day ?.

It'll be per week, so either 5 per day Mon-Sat or 6 per day Mon-Fri.

 

[Peter Sarf]

It'll be per week, so either 5 per day Mon-Sat or 6 per day Mon-Fri.

Ah... I should have gone to specsavers .

 

[hexagon789]

Ah... I should have gone to specsavers .

I was just extrapolating from the previous '10 extra per week from December' bit. Per week seems the more probable frequency than per day

 

[peter166]

Seems odd that 1A99 0901 (from Lime Street ito Euston) is overtaken by1G46 0908 (from Lime Street to Birmingham) between Wavertree Jct. & Runcon?
1A99 due to arrive Runcorn 0932 (31 mins) whereas 1G46 arrives 0925 (17 mins).

 

[craigybagel]

I notice 807001 only got as far South as Stafford this morning on 1A99

Person hit by a train at Rugeley and all lines blocked.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Person hit by a train at Rugeley and all lines blocked.

You'd expect diversions via the Grand Junction line, but not all trains will fit of course.

 

[Class15]

You'd expect diversions via the Grand Junction line, but not all trains will fit of course.

Most trains are doing just that actually.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Seems odd that 1A99 0901 (from Lime Street ito Euston) is overtaken by1G46 0908 (from Lime Street to Birmingham) between Wavertree Jct. & Runcon?
1A99 due to arrive Runcorn 0932 (31 mins) whereas 1G46 arrives 0925 (17 mins).

Even odder is that 1G46 calls, but 1A99 does not, at Liverpool South Parkway

Looking at the schedules on RTT, 1A99 takes 10 minutes for the four miles between Speke Junction and Ditton Junction (c 24 mph pass to pass), whereas 1G46 takes three minutes (c 80 mph).

 

[DaveyJones]

Most trains are doing just that actually.

Its an additional service, I wonder if the contingency plans for a blocked route via Rugeley don't consider its existence?

 

[Class15]

Its an additional service, I wonder if the contingency plans for a blocked route via Rugeley don't consider its existence?

That’s entirely possible. If so hopefully it can be updated soon.

Apologies if this has already been stated, but are 807s cleared Stafford - Bushbury - Bescot - Aston - Stechford?

 

[Whistler40145]

You'd expect diversions via the Grand Junction line, but not all trains will fit of course.

Diversions all seems to be via Wolverhampton and Birmingham New Street, rather than Bescot

 

[Class15]

Diversions all seems to be via Wolverhampton and Birmingham New Street, rather than Bescot

Not all.

 

[DaveyJones]

That’s entirely possible. If so hopefully it can be updated soon.

Apologies if this has already been stated, but are 807s cleared Stafford - Bushbury - Bescot - Aston - Stechford?

1R00 ran (most of) that way yesterday formed of an 807 (Edit for RTT link)

Realtime Trains | 1R00 0457 Wolverhampton to London Euston | 11/11/2024

Real-time train running information for 1R00 0457 departure from Wolverhampton to London Euston on 11/11/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Sorcerer]

I had no idea that 807s had started running and even reached Liverpool Lime Street. I do hope this doesn't come at the expense of the Pendolinos though because I have far too much love and nostalgia for them to accept the Evero replacing them on any number of services! But then of course if nostalgia dictated railway policy we'd still be having steam engines running up and down the West Coast Main Line.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Its an additional service, I wonder if the contingency plans for a blocked route via Rugeley don't consider its existence?

Most likely the alternative route(s) cannot take everything on top of the normal services for the alternative route so some things will have to be cancelled. The first casualties will be odd one out services like additional services and any that require special crewing arrangements (I doubt many Avanti drivers are passed on 807s yet so risk that the 807 would be stuck at Euston waiting for precisely the right driver).

 

[Bletchleyite]

I had no idea that 807s had started running and even reached Liverpool Lime Street. I do hope this doesn't come at the expense of the Pendolinos though because I have far too much love and nostalgia for them to accept the Evero replacing them on any number of services! But then of course if nostalgia dictated railway policy we'd still be having steam engines running up and down the West Coast Main Line.

The idea is that in a given hour the 807 replaces the existing service (which is pathed 807, you might have noticed that it feels a bit slow compared to usual on those services in a Pendolino) and a second (faster) service with a Pendolino is added.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Person hit by a train at Rugeley and all lines blocked.

Thanks, oh dear another sad occurrence.

 

[Sorcerer]

The idea is that in a given hour the 807 replaces the existing service (which is pathed 807, you might have noticed that it feels a bit slow compared to usual on those services in a Pendolino) and a second (faster) service with a Pendolino is added.

I was under the impression these plans were shelved due to power supply issues so naturally I assumed any 807s were replacing a 390 service. Have these supply issues being resolved now?

 

[Peter Sarf]

I was under the impression these plans were shelved due to power supply issues so naturally I assumed any 807s were replacing a 390 service. Have these supply issues being resolved now?

It is further up the thread but a few extra services can be run but not all day. So it seems a half hourly service in the peak hours is possible, probably with no electric freight competing for the power.

 

[Sorcerer]

It is further up the thread but a few extra services can be run but not all day. So it seems a half hourly service in the peak hours is possible, probably with no electric freight competing for the power.

So there's a chance my brain may be malfunctioning but the impression I'm getting so far is that the current services will (in phases) be getting 807s instead of 390s while the December timetable change will see extra services in peak hours ran by 390s without electric freight competing for power. I do find it somewhat odd that the service isn't truly half-hourly but rather pathed as xx:03 and xx:43 seeing as xx:13 out of Euston would clash with a Manchester service. I hope I've got that right.