Porterbrook to create Pacer demonstrator (now unveiled)

[WillPS]

So has this ePacer actually carried a fare paying passenger yet? It's been with Northern for months.

I'm wondering if there are problems which Porterbrook are unwilling to solve now that it's been clarified the next Northern franchise will not allow Pacers? Is the project essentially dead?

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

As I understand it from their twitter people, its done a few trips then returned to depot for rectification work

 

[JaJaWa]

I'm wondering if there are problems which Porterbrook are unwilling to solve now that it's been clarified the next Northern franchise will not allow Pacers? Is the project essentially dead?

It doesn't have to stay with Northern!

 

[northwichcat]

It doesn't have to stay with Northern!

Indeed. The Anglia franchise spec which has been released only rules out trains already secured by other operators, nothing about ruling out ePacers or D-Trains as long as they meet the post-2019 requirements for rolling stock.

 

[WillPS]

Indeed. The Anglia franchise spec which has been released only rules out trains already secured by other operators, nothing about ruling out ePacers or D-Trains as long as they meet the post-2019 requirements for rolling stock.

Surely after having made such a fanfare both before and after the election about replacing them they'd not get away with that? The challenge would surely exceed that PR-wise of selling D-Trains as a positive thing to customers...

AFAIK no Pacer clearance work has taken place since privatisation, the work they've performed has been confined to a set of areas - North, Wales and South West - what would the cost be of performing such work across East Anglia?

 

[northwichcat]

Surely after having made such a fanfare both before and after the election about replacing them they'd not get away with that?

When someone asked Patrick McLoughlin recently if Pacers would be withdrawn from all franchises by the end of 2019 he only said only Pacers would not be used by the next Northern franchise and refused to say anymore.

AFAIK no Pacer clearance work has taken place since privatisation, the work they've performed has been confined to a set of areas - North, Wales and South West - what would the cost be of performing such work across East Anglia?

Cost of getting clearance for Pacers or D-Trains should be no more than any other type of stock.

 

[Wolfie]

When someone asked Patrick McLoughlin recently if Pacers would be withdrawn from all franchises by the end of 2019 he only said only Pacers would not be used by the next Northern franchise and refused to say anymore.



Cost of getting clearance for Pacers or D-Trains should be no more than any other type of stock.

Whitehall insider cynical hat on here...

If you believe for one moment that the Tory MPs with constituencies covered by the Anglia franchise will wear a situation where Anglia is a net-payer to the Treasury, Northern the biggest economic basket case TOC (yes, I know the arguments but I also can predict exactly what they'd say) and stock (either Pacers or D-trains) deemed not good enough for the latter is either moved to/bought for the former...

Not a hope in hell - believe me Pacers/D-trains to feature in the Northern follow-on contract is FAR more likely than that!

 

[northwichcat]

Whitehall insider cynical hat on here...

If you believe for one moment that the Tory MPs with constituencies covered by the Anglia franchise will wear a situation where Anglia is a net-payer to the Treasury, Northern the biggest economic basket case TOC (yes, I know the arguments but I also can predict exactly what they'd say) and stock (either Pacers or D-trains) deemed not good enough for the latter is either moved to/bought for the former...

Not a hope in hell - believe me Pacers/D-trains to feature in the Northern follow-on contract is FAR more likely than that!

The Tories do have a number of marginal seats in the North, as do Labour. If the Tories impress Northerners then they can gain around 20 more seats, if they don't impress they'll lose around 20 seats. Northerners have already got the impression the 'Northern Powerhouse' is all talk and no action.

Apparently their aim is to lock Labour out of Downing Street for the next 15 years - if they lose 20 seats that may not happen and Northern and TPE will be nationalised in 2023.

 

[Wolfie]

The Tories do have a number of marginal seats in the North, as do Labour. If the Tories impress Northerners then they can gain around 20 more seats, if they don't impress they'll lose around 20 seats. Northerners have already got the impression the 'Northern Powerhouse' is all talk and no action.

Apparently their aim is to lock Labour out of Downing Street for the next 15 years - if they lose 20 seats that may not happen and Northern and TPE will be nationalised in 2023.

Try looking how many seats they have in the Anglia area - at least some of which might be jeopardised by them using "Northern rejects" on the rails while still charging premium prices.... just look at some of the vitriol towards AGA thats been seen on this site already....

 

[northwichcat]

Try looking how many seats they have in the Anglia area - at least some of which might be jeopardised by them using "Northern rejects" on the rails while still charging premium prices.... just look at some of the vitriol towards AGA thats been seen on this site already....

Really?

£5.80 for an Anytime Day Return for Ipswich to Felixstowe
£25.70 for an Anytime Day Return for Ipswich to Lowestoft

If those are premium prices then the fares we pay in Cheshire are premium prices as well but get Pacers.

 

[krus_aragon]

When someone asked Patrick McLoughlin recently if Pacers would be withdrawn from all franchises by the end of 2019 he only said only Pacers would not be used by the next Northern franchise and refused to say anymore.

I wouldn't be surprised to see pacers working in Wales post 2019: the current franchise runs until the tail end of 2018, and with Valley Lines electrification (presumably) still somewhere on the horizon I expect many will be kept working until replaced by EMUs.

 

[Adam0984]

012 has been out on the Monk Bretton branch today presumably skid pan training

 

[47802]

I very much doubt Railbuses will be used on a Franchise that doesn't already have them, obviously D trains may be a different matter.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Try looking how many seats they have in the Anglia area - at least some of which might be jeopardised by them using "Northern rejects" on the rails while still charging premium prices.

"Northern rejects"...now that is a term not often seen on this website. I had assumed that Northern Rail was the final resting place for all rejects...

 

[Camden]

You'd be wrong. The whole point of electrification is to free up much needed diesel trains, which are needed in various locations not just Northernland.

The north is now clearly positioned as second in the queue when it comes to rolling stock, after London. Not a bad place to be for an area that consumes massive subsidies, in every sense, and a long way from the bottom of the pile.

 

[Julia]

Try looking how many seats they have in the Anglia area...

...most of which are perfectly safe.

 

[northwichcat]

You'd be wrong. The whole point of electrification is to free up much needed diesel trains, which are needed in various locations not just Northernland.

Wait a minute now. Lord Adonis came up with Chat Moss, Bolton, Blackpool and Thames Valley electrification as an alternative to ordering 202 new diesel carriages which broke down as 130 for Northern, 32 for FGW and 40 for TPE which were included in the CP4 HLOS. The 319s for Northern and 350s for TPE were intended as extra capacity not for Northern and TPE to start releasing DMUs to other operators.

I've been saying for years that with the current rate of electrification work and current rate of passenger growth it would be impossible to withdraw the Pacers by 2019 using electrification alone. DfT and ATOC on the other hand kept insisting no new self-powered trains for local/regional routes would be required until CP6 or even later, until earlier this year when DfT admitted new self-powered trains would need to be built for local/regional routes in CP5.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Anyone know if and when the demonstrator is likely to be out and running again?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Anyone know if and when the demonstrator is likely to be out and running again?

It's been out on tests occasionally, but for some reason hasn't actually entered service yet. Whether there's some unforseen complications or not, I don't know.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

I have been told, via their twitter team, that it will re-enter service tomorrow morning doing 0643 Sheffield - Lincoln and then a nice and easy Adwick, Sheffield, Scunthorpe, Lincoln rosta

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I have been told, via their twitter team, that it will re-enter service tomorrow morning doing 0643 Sheffield - Lincoln and then a nice and easy Adwick, Sheffield, Scunthorpe, Lincoln rosta

Bl**dy Southerners stealing our trains again!

 

[hacman]

Timings for this are expected to be as below:

2R66 Adwick 11:15 Sheffld 12:05
2R69 Sheffld 12:24 Scnthrp 13:46
2P73 Scnthrp 14:19 LinclnC 17:07
2P76 LinclnC 17:22 Sheffld 18:33
2P81 Sheffld 18:45 LinclnC 20:07
2P94 LinclnC 20:27 Sheffld 21:45

Will be interesting to see how it does!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Timings for this are expected to be as below:

2R66 Adwick 11:15 Sheffld 12:05
2R69 Sheffld 12:24 Scnthrp 13:46
2P73 Scnthrp 14:19 LinclnC 17:07
2P76 LinclnC 17:22 Sheffld 18:33
2P81 Sheffld 18:45 LinclnC 20:07
2P94 LinclnC 20:27 Sheffld 21:45

Will be interesting to see how it does!

Presumably it'll overnight in Sheffield sidings or centre roads. Penistone line tomorrow?

 

[D365]

Presumably it'll overnight in Sheffield sidings or centre roads.

If that's the case, I could go have a look for it. However I really don't fancy going out tonight :P

 

[Shaun_92]

Info about144012 it is working the following diagrams today 2P53, 2R09, 2R66, 2R69, 2P73, 2P76, 2P81 and 2P94. Sheffield, Lincoln, Adwick , Scunthorpe runs.

 

[Starmill]

It's totally bizarre. The LED lighting and the roof space without the luggage racks make it look very strange. The new seats are hideously unforgiving and it's so easy to bang your head when you sit down (disgusting FAINSA rubbish from an Electrostar). The sink in the toilet is also as hilarious as it looks - just essentially flat!

 

[Adam0984]

It's not on 2P73 1419 Scunthorpe to Lincoln.
Update it's back on 2P73 at Sheffield at 15:44

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It's totally bizarre. The LED lighting and the roof space without the luggage racks make it look very strange. The new seats are hideously unforgiving and it's so easy to bang your head when you sit down (disgusting FAINSA rubbish from an Electrostar). The sink in the toilet is also as hilarious as it looks - just essentially flat!

I could tell from the pictures that those seats weren't going to be great from a comfort point of view, but hopefully them being thin should improve the legroom situation... Is that a false hope?

 

[Lincoln]

I was travelling on the 0825 Lincoln to Sheffield earlier and was pleased to see it arrive. Unfortunately it was too busy so I wasn't able to take any pictures.

It felt very open and airy with the new lighting looking very smart. The customer information screens are a welcome addition as well as the automated announcements. The announcements stated the next station at about the right time on approach which was good, with the screens displaying the same, along with the odd info telling passengers not to smoke cigarettes or electronic varieties.

I thought the seats were rather hard, but there was plenty of leg room. Of which all legroom would be lost if you had any luggage with you as the overheads have gone which is a shame. Also tip down tables on the seat backs would have been welcome too.

I didn't get a chance to look in the toilet however it's obviously a huge space from looking at the door. Probably something similar to a Meridian or Voyager?

All in all a huge improvement which fellow passengers were quick to point out to the crew checking tickets. Hopefully if the pacers are set to continue this will be at least the minimum spec required, which can definitely be bettered just by putting flip up tables and luggage racks in.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It does seem odd that the overhead racks have gone, but then I seldom use them because I'm an idiot and I'd end up forgetting whatever I'd put in them. It's rare I see anything in the racks on pacers that still have them though, so perhaps they've decided not to bother.