Porterbrook to create Pacer demonstrator (now unveiled)

[Tim R-T-C]

I hope they send it on a Morecambe run some time soon...

Give it a real work-out.

 

[northwichcat]

I hope they send it on a Morecambe run some time soon...

Give it a real work-out.

Apparently the aim is to keep it on Sheffield services unless an emergency occurs.

 

[Harpers Tate]

I had the "pleasure" of this set yesterday for 1/2 hour or so. It was interesting to overhear a couple of women boarding discussing (in one case) how it was a new train and (by way of reply from the other) that it was just an old one done up.

My impressions:
- seating a big improvement over the previously-refurbished 144 setup for the sole reason that there was quite enough legroom - something that is not true of the older, thicker seats. All the padding in the world is of no help if they are too close together, which the older ones are. As a matter of choice, though, I prefer lower seat backs to give better visibility.
- lighting good and modern
- standard of work done - mostly OK but I thought the roof was a giveaway that this train had been altered. Paint finish a bit uneven and the filled holes where the luggage racks had been removed were very visible. Conversely, I couldn't tell at all where the toilet used to be.
- (I did not look inside the new toilet so no comment on that)
- ride quality and noise - standard for a 144
- My opinion is that removal of the overhead luggage racks was idiotic and will only result in increased numbers of bags on seats - despite the inclusion of an upright luggage rack which is welcome for the larger cases some people carry
- The audio passenger information system was clear and accurate. The video screen in the centre of the train was showing incorrect data throughout. This leads me to conclude that either there is no means for train staff to turn it off, or that they haven't been instructed to watch (and/or listen) for such errors and take some remedial action. As with any such technology, there needs to be recognition that it will not be 100% perfect, and that displaying incorrect data to customers is far worse than displaying nothing. So I suggest that there needs to be at the very least an off button, plus appropriate staff instruction.
- My moment of amusement - the sound made at the doors to indicate they have been released was identical to the sound made by Dr Emmet Brown's DeLorean when the Roentgen Chamber was empty. So, no time-travel here, then.

 

[yorksrob]

I had the "pleasure" of this set yesterday for 1/2 hour or so. It was interesting to overhear a couple of women boarding discussing (in one case) how it was a new train and (by way of reply from the other) that it was just an old one done up.

My impressions:
- seating a big improvement over the previously-refurbished 144 setup for the sole reason that there was quite enough legroom - something that is not true of the older, thicker seats. All the padding in the world is of no help if they are too close together, which the older ones are.

Although presumably they could just take out a set of the original seats and move the rest up a bit to provide more leg room, without resorting to slab seats.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Although presumably they could just take out a set of the original seats and move the rest up a bit to provide more leg room, without resorting to slab seats.

Pah! That would be far too logical!

 

[trentside]

Out of interest, does anyone know what diagram 144012 will be operating tomorrow?

 

[WillPS]

Also tip down tables on the seat backs would have been welcome too.

Pacers cannot have tables as the ride is not smooth enough for a beverage to stay upright when sat on one.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Out of interest, does anyone know what diagram 144012 will be operating tomorrow?

She is doing only Scunthorpe - Lincoln - Doncaster - Sheffield area until further notice. Something, according to Northern's twitter team, to do with keeping her near to a depot or fitter location in event of failure

 

[yorksrob]

Well, sat on it now (how exciting!)

Impressions are, seats aren't as uncomfortable as I'd feared. Obviously, they are very hard, so I'm not sure how I'd feel going all the way to Lancaster on one, but they are definitely the correct shape.

Love the snazzy star design moquette btw.

The seat design means that groups sat in the airline seats will have no problem chatting to eachother.

First impressions, light, airey very space age.

However, my bag and coat are on the floor in front of me, so the overhead racks definitely need to come back.

 

[387star]

Valley lines will use these?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Valley lines will use these?

The first one was just to prove the concept, but as the ITT for the next Northern franchise rules out any non-bogied stock, the only place they're likely to go if more are done does appear to be the Valleys.

 

[Rhydgaled]

the only place they're likely to go if more are done does appear to be the Valleys.

Aren't they expected to be electrified by 2025? Is 4-5 years enough time for Porterbrook/WAG/DfT to make a business case for the refurb?

 

[northwichcat]

Aren't they expected to be electrified by 2025? Is 4-5 years enough time for Porterbrook/WAG/DfT to make a business case for the refurb?

With the next Wales & Borders franchise starting in 2018 I imagine any rolling stock requirements for post-2019 use will likely have to be finalised before the next franchise is awarded, otherwise there won't be enough time to make accessibility improvements and fit retention units in time before the 31st December 2019 deadline.

 

[crehld]

I had a go on this yesterday and I was quite impressed. It looks smart, neat. A good job has been done with the interior decorating and the fittings. The seats are the same as those in some of Southern's 377 which I actually find quite comfy. The information screen was much clearer than those scrolling LED things and the automated annoucnements were clear and audible. I guess it's up to Northern now to keep it in this tip-top shape (if their approach to maintaining / cleaning the rest of their fleet is anything to go by I'm not holding my breath).

Negatives: like yorksrob my bag and coat were on the floor and a nice refreshed and pleasant interior does nothing to mask the poor ride quality; it's still a pacer after all.

 

[Stonesourscotty]

Did some of the refurbished pacers seats end up in 156420? It has a mix match of fnw and grey seats and new windows in the none toilet part of the unit?

 

[185143]

I think its an absolute disgrace it doesn't have luggage racks tbh! When you are told not to put bags on seats to free up space for other passengers, where do you put them?!

There are far too many complaints about lack of luggage space on rail services as it is, but removing overhead racks is just an absolute joke!

 

[JaJaWa]

I think its an absolute disgrace it doesn't have luggage racks tbh!

It has luggage racks.

When you are told not to put bags on seats to free up space for other passengers, where do you put them?!

In the luggage racks.

 

[185143]

I think its an absolute disgrace it doesn't have luggage racks tbh!

It has luggage racks.

When you are told not to put bags on seats to free up space for other passengers, where do you put them?!

In the luggage racks.

Oh, is it just the overhead ones it doesn't have? Even so, that's not good.

 

[Harpers Tate]

It has the addition of a luggage rack towards the end of the car which is wholly appropriate for large suitcases, etc. This addition is a good thing.

It has the removal of the overhead luggage racks which are suitable for briefcases, laptops, coats, shopping and so on. This removal is a bad thing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It has the removal of the overhead luggage racks which are suitable for briefcases, laptops, coats, shopping and so on. This removal is a bad thing.

Indeed. On commuter services the overheads are usually full of laptop bags, jackets etc. Removing them is a very bad idea. If there was a safety issue with them being too large[1], smaller ones could be provided.

[1] I don't believe there actually is; this was alleged at the time of construction of the Turbostars[2], but the later Desiros have very large racks that will happily take even the largest, heaviest trolley cases.

[2] Notably, the ScotRail ones have larger racks in the First Class which take big bags happily, but still the stupid small ones in Standard.

 

[chrissawer]

Spotted 144012 in the Calder Valley this morning, coupled to a 150 forming the 0739 from Hebden Bridge to Leeds.

It was obvious from a distance as the LED interior lighting looked very blue in comparison to the 150.

 

[geoffk]

Still not seen it.

I agree about the luggage racks but no doubt overhead racks could easily be incorporated into any future refurbished units.

 

[yorksrob]

It has luggage racks.

In the luggage racks.

But they're rubbish luggage racks in the wrong place. I don't want my bag up the other end of the carriage.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But they're rubbish luggage racks in the wrong place. I don't want my bag up the other end of the carriage.

Agreed. End of coach luggage racks are for big bags. Overheads are for smaller bags, otherwise they end up on the seat with all the resulting arguments.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

At Leeds very early this morning:


The Porterbrook Pacer Demonstrator at Leeds by Timothy Young, on Flickr

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

At Leeds very early this morning:


The Porterbrook Pacer Demonstrator at Leeds by Timothy Young, on Flickr

She's beautiful...

 

[Tim R-T-C]

And just like that, the new Arriva Northern franchise strictly says NO PACERS.

So this demonstrator becomes a one-off, at least until delays to the new stock mean they have to stick around for a few more years to come...

 

[D365]

So this demonstrator becomes a one-off, at least until delays to the new stock mean they have to stick around for a few more years to come...

Nothing's to say (so far) that there won't be a short-term home found in the Valley Lines. At least in the interim period before electrification comes online.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Nothing's to say (so far) that there won't be a short-term home found in the Valley Lines. At least in the interim period before electrification comes online.

With GW's small fleet of 143's likely to get flushed out even with the wiring delays South Wales will be the only place to find Pacers after 2019.

 

[Rhydgaled]

With GW's small fleet of 143's likely to get flushed out even with the wiring delays South Wales will be the only place to find Pacers after 2019.

If they aren't replaced by cascaded 150s from elsewhere or converted ex-London-Underground stock.