Porterbrook to create Pacer demonstrator (now unveiled)

[Blindtraveler]

Cue a croud of Pacer Bashers with ALRs crouding out Northern, ATW and GWR services for the next 2 years!

 

[MML]

The increased use of public transport on branch lines should be encouraged across all areas of the country. The use of refurbished Pacer or D-trains can still offer a low-cost solution to improve service frequency desired across secondary or tertiary routes.
Thus leaving investment in more expensive modern stock for the most lucrative commuter and express routes.
Northern rail currently operates their Esk Valley line between Middlesborough and Whitby with a service interval of 3 hours. I'm sure potential customers would be encouraged by an hourly service operated by a refurbished fleet rather than wait 3 hours for the next train to arrive. And if Northern cannot improve frequency, then perhaps an open access operator should stimulate growth through use of these units.

 

[Techniquest]

Cue a croud of Pacer Bashers with ALRs crouding out Northern, ATW and GWR services for the next 2 years!

There will sure be a lot of people going after them now, I'm safe as houses for the ATW and GWR lot at least having got my last one from that lot in 2005! I admit I'll be making more trips north to fill my books, but then that wa the plan yonks ago anyway.

Sales of various rangers and rovers across the North will end up increasing nicely no doubt!

 

[Rhydgaled]

The increased use of public transport on branch lines should be encouraged across all areas of the country. The use of refurbished Pacer or D-trains can still offer a low-cost solution to improve service frequency desired across secondary or tertiary routes.

With Pacers (and, possibly, D-Trains) forbidden on Northern I expect either Porterbrook or Vivarail will be disapointed and only one of the two proposals will get much interest.

Thus leaving investment in more expensive modern stock for the most lucrative commuter and express routes.

You can do that anyway without needing to use Pacers. For example, South West Trains appear to be one of the more lucrative TOCs and can justify new trains so a new fleet of bi-mode units similar to the 5-WES (Wessex Electric) to replace the 158s and 159s at SWT could enable a cascade of 158s and 159s.

And if Northern cannot improve frequency, then perhaps an open access operator should stimulate growth through use of these units.

Perhaps a good idea in theroy, but open access operators need to make a profit without subsidy and the sort of routes Pacers and D-Trains are likely to be suitable for probably require subsidy.

 

[Tracked]

Went on it from Doncaster-Sheffield yesterday morning, it looks quite nice inside - filled in holes from the luggage racks excepted - though it still sounds and rides like any other 144.

The destination display's good, though it seemed to be stuck on displaying all stations between Doncaster & Sheffield even past Rotherham.

The seats were better than the 142 I went on later, and those were the 2+2, not the 3+2 benches ...

 

[Greybeard33]

Finally got to ride on 144012 today - it formed half of a Leeds to Horsforth cricket special.

A strange mix of old and new. Mutton dressed up as lamb seems an apt description. The saloon seems bright and airy with the new lights and no luggage racks. But it is in need of a deep clean already.

The new PIS got a station ahead of itself and kept repeating a spurious announcement about passcom activation.

 

[Roose]

Northern rail currently operates their Esk Valley line between Middlesborough and Whitby with a service interval of 3 hours. I'm sure potential customers would be encouraged by an hourly service operated by a refurbished fleet rather than wait 3 hours for the next train to arrive. And if Northern cannot improve frequency, then perhaps an open access operator should stimulate growth through use of these units.

An open access operator would still be constrained by the Esk Valley infrastructure in the same way as Northern and the NYMR.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

An open access operator would still be constrained by the Esk Valley infrastructure in the same way as Northern and the NYMR.

True there's a limit to how many paths are available on the line... but there are more paths than are currently used, apart from the section between Whitby and Grosmont on summer Saturdays.

 

[47802]

Northern rail currently operates their Esk Valley line between Middlesborough and Whitby with a service interval of 3 hours. I'm sure potential customers would be encouraged by an hourly service operated by a refurbished fleet rather than wait 3 hours for the next train to arrive. And if Northern cannot improve frequency, then perhaps an open access operator should stimulate growth through use of these units.

And an open access operator would able operate this service at a profit would they even with a railbus There's a reason why Open Access operators tend to operate services on the main line routes out of London. Grand Central proposed operating a Trans Pennine service from Sunderland originally, but they soon realised that operating some form of competing service against a highly subsidised TOC wasn't going to happen.

 

[northwichcat]

And an open access operator would able operate this service at a profit would they even with a railbus There's a reason why Open Access operators tend to operate services on the main line routes out of London. Grand Central proposed operating a Trans Pennine service from Sunderland originally, but they soon realised that operating some form of competing service against a highly subsidised TOC wasn't going to happen.

Railbuses are only cheap to operate if they are in single formation and when you compare them to a longer DMU e.g. a 30m 142 is cheaper to operate than a 40m 150. A pair of 142s (60m) aren't cheaper to run than a 156+153 (69m.)

Are you sure about 'Sunderland Transpennine'? They did propose and submit an ORR application for York to Chester via Wakefield & Rochdale (which was rejected) and have proposed various Euston services starting in West Yorkshire but I can't find any reference to Sunderland to Manchester or similar.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Railbuses are only cheap to operate if they are in single formation and when you compare them to a longer DMU e.g. a 30m 142 is cheaper to operate than a 40m 150. A pair of 142s (60m) aren't cheaper to run than a 156+153 (69m.)

Are you sure about 'Sunderland Transpennine'? They did propose and submit an ORR application for York to Chester via Wakefield & Rochdale (which was rejected) and have proposed various Euston services starting in West Yorkshire but I can't find any reference to Sunderland to Manchester or similar.

I'd thought the original Grand Central service proposal was Sunderland to Bolton via Hartlepool, York, Castleford, Wakefield Kirkgate, Brighouse, Rochdale and Manchester Victoria, which would of course miss the large markets of Leeds, Bradford and Huddersfield!

Of course this has little or nothing to do with 144012.

 

[MancMetro]

I got the train from Honley to Huddersfield today, and to my surprise the e-Pacer turned up. The seating now allows good legroom, although the noise and ride quality won't fool anyone that it's a new train. I took a few photos here.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I got the train from Honley to Huddersfield today, and to my surprise the e-Pacer turned up. The seating now allows good legroom, although the noise and ride quality won't fool anyone that it's a new train. I took a few photos here.

Caught up with 144012 at Huddersfield on Saturday evening, didn't ride it as it would've left me with a 3 mile walk or 50 minute wait once I got to Denby Dale. There was a cleaning crew on board who seemed to be making extra effort to keep Northern's new toy in good order!

 

[HLE]

Finally got to ride on 144012 today - it formed half of a Leeds to Horsforth cricket special.

A strange mix of old and new. Mutton dressed up as lamb seems an apt description. The saloon seems bright and airy with the new lights and no luggage racks. But it is in need of a deep clean already.

The new PIS got a station ahead of itself and kept repeating a spurious announcement about passcom activation.

Deep clean? Looks fine from the photos

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Deep clean? Looks fine from the photos

I thought the same, though perhaps Greybeard33's post was spotted by someone in Northern control and they despatched their top damp-cloth operatives forthwith!

 

[Greybeard33]

Deep clean? Looks fine from the photos

You need to look under the seats.

 

[47802]

You need to look under the seats.

I'm not sure its a good idea to look under the seats of any Northern Train and some of the other TOC's Trains for that matter, well not unless you've got a strong stomach

 

[johntea]

Turned up at Castleford today of all places

Might have been shuttling Knottingley to Leeds and back all day

Certainly appreciated the extra leg room and lighting, I'm also a fan of the higher back seats as it gives a bit of privacy.

But then it got moving and you just remembered you were on a pacer sadly. Glad they tried it out as it is a good prototype but at the same time glad Arriva are investing in new stock - they've had a good run at 30 years of heavy passenger usage!

CCTV and WiFi on a Castleford to Leeds service was certainly unexpected - although the information screen just seemed to be stuck on a No Smoking notice

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

CCTV and WiFi on a Castleford to Leeds service was certainly unexpected - although the information screen just seemed to be stuck on a No Smoking notice

Still a good message to display.

 

[johntea]

Out of interest why didn't they consider adding power points, or even just USB sockets to the trial unit?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Out of interest why didn't they consider adding power points, or even just USB sockets to the trial unit?

I guess part of it was that the old Northern barely had two pennies to rub together so everything will have been costed down to within an inch of its life.

 

[Starmill]

I don't think Northern paid for anything. The Rosco did and as such they chose the specification. For whatever reason, they clearly thought it wouldn't justify the expense. Possibly there would be an issue with the power supply.

 

[northwichcat]

Out of interest why didn't they consider adding power points, or even just USB sockets to the trial unit?

I don't think a Pacer would be able to power them. A 158 can only have a limited number of sockets due to power limitations and a Pacer only has a fraction of the power of a 158.

I don't think Northern paid for anything. The Rosco did and as such they chose the specification. For whatever reason, they clearly thought it wouldn't justify the expense. Possibly there would be an issue with the power supply.

Yes Porterbrook paid for it so show what could be done with a Pacer. Northern may have had some influence though given they had to agree to temporarily release a unit they had a lease in place for and a franchise agreement which states how many seats they need to provide at peak times.

 

[WatcherZero]

It has been said that if the 14x/15x wanted more luxuries they would have to replace the alternator with a beefier one, which of course would eat in to engine power. You can save a bit of power from replacing the old lighting with LED ones.

 

[krus_aragon]

It has been said that if the 14x/15x wanted more luxuries they would have to replace the alternator with a beefier one, which of course would eat in to engine power. You can save a bit of power from replacing the old lighting with LED ones.

I believe the latter was done as part of ATW's 158 refurb, for example. (Fluorescent tubes out, power sockets in.)

 

[ryan125hst]

Well I rode on 144012 yesterday from Sheffield to Retford, the 15:45 departure (ex Adwick).

It was the third time I had been on the unit having first travelled on it back in November and then again earlier in the month.

The train was full and standing from Sheffield for starters which doesn't help things, but that wasn't my main disappointment with the train. To say it's been running for less than a year since refurbishment, three main things were wrong with the train:

1) The toilet was out of order. I had to stand next to it until Worksop due to overcrowding, so I saw the notice explaining that the door had to be pulled open and pushed shut and also wouldn't lock. The lights were on inside but the door button was off and an out of order sign was visible at the carriage end of it. I think people could use it in an emergency but at the risk of the door opening on them, and whether the toilet was flushing or not I don't know.

2) The Passenger Information System wasn't working. The LED screen on the front of the train was blank and the colour LCD display inside the carriage was only displaying a no smoking message. There were no automatic announcements either which I thought there was originally.

3) The WiFi was useless! I didn't even get it to work in November and forgot all about it earlier in the month. I did manage to connect to it but a Speedtest showed speeds of 0.2 Mbps down and 0.1 Mbps up. This was set in Sheffield station where all mobile networks offer 4G, so it wasn't a backhaul issue (on train WiFi connects to the internet using 3G and 4G). It was a similar story a few minutes out of the station and even Wikipedia wouldn't load. While there are a few not spots on my phone, Three (who I'm with) has 4G coverage for quite a bit of the route and decent 3G coverage otherwise. I'm sure the on train WiFi also has SIM Cards for EE, O2 and Vodafone and it likely has an antenna on the roof, so surely performance should be far better than on my mobile? I doubt there were that many people using it!

Overall, disappointing to see given it's the one Pacer that Porterbrook have refurbished. Add this to passengers often reporting how uncomfortable the seats are and it's not impressive at all. I hope the refurbished 150's, 156's and 158's fair better.

(Sorry for the large images. I've used Tinypic before a few years ago but they didn't appear as large as that. Any ideas how to make them smaller?)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Those seats are a bit Marmite - some of us do like them quite a lot - generally I think taller people.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Well I rode on 144012 yesterday from Sheffield to Retford, the 15:45 departure (ex Adwick).

It was the third time I had been on the unit having first travelled on it back in November and then again earlier in the month.

The train was full and standing from Sheffield for starters which doesn't help things, but that wasn't my main disappointment with the train. To say it's been running for less than a year since refurbishment, three main things were wrong with the train:

1) The toilet was out of order. I had to stand next to it until Worksop due to overcrowding, so I saw the notice explaining that the door had to be pulled open and pushed shut and also wouldn't lock. The lights were on inside but the door button was off and an out of order sign was visible at the carriage end of it. I think people could use it in an emergency but at the risk of the door opening on them, and whether the toilet was flushing or not I don't know.

2) The Passenger Information System wasn't working. The LED screen on the front of the train was blank and the colour LCD display inside the carriage was only displaying a no smoking message. There were no automatic announcements either which I thought there was originally.

3) The WiFi was useless! I didn't even get it to work in November and forgot all about it earlier in the month. I did manage to connect to it but a Speedtest showed speeds of 0.2 Mbps down and 0.1 Mbps up. This was set in Sheffield station where all mobile networks offer 4G, so it wasn't a backhaul issue (on train WiFi connects to the internet using 3G and 4G). It was a similar story a few minutes out of the station and even Wikipedia wouldn't load. While there are a few not spots on my phone, Three (who I'm with) has 4G coverage for quite a bit of the route and decent 3G coverage otherwise. I'm sure the on train WiFi also has SIM Cards for EE, O2 and Vodafone and it likely has an antenna on the roof, so surely performance should be far better than on my mobile? I doubt there were that many people using it!

Overall, disappointing to see given it's the one Pacer that Porterbrook have refurbished. Add this to passengers often reporting how uncomfortable the seats are and it's not impressive at all. I hope the refurbished 150's, 156's and 158's fair better.

(Sorry for the large images. I've used Tinypic before a few years ago but they didn't appear as large as that. Any ideas how to make them smaller?)

Don't be too harsh on 012... The poor thing is a little worn out and needs a bit of fettling - she'll be fully operational again

 

[eman_resu]

I doubt the train modem has multiple SIMS, normally the agreement would be with a single mobile phone carrier only.

Also, beware of the Speedtest apps as the speed also depends on the capacity / congestion on the 4G/3G carrier network and the server tested to.

For example, I was involved in the pre-consumer 4G speed testing here in Australia for one of the phone networks. To our own server we made 10Mbps at best, thus causing some major heartache from the marketing people. Changing the server within the app to a Telstra one , we instantly upped the speed to 40-50Mbps.

 

[hacman]

Trains will normally use multiple carriers. It's very rare for only a single carrier to be used.

During my time building and supporting such systems I dealt with only two fleets that had single carrier in the UK.

It's likely that the equipment has been installed on a proof of concept basis though, so performance may not be that great. Add to this that though not many people will be "using" the service, many phones and devices will auto connect to an open network to save on cellular usage. So that may have caused some contention.

It should also be noted that those speed test sites are very often not a good representation for vehicle wifi systems, for a number of reasons.

The wifi will not be representative of the system these trains could offer - Porterbrook have more installed it as a "look what can be done" situation.


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