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Police checking travel

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Kite159

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According to an article on mail online, police are taking peoples names and addresses and fining them if they are not "local"

Police taking lessons from the East Germany textbooks again?

Sorry they are too busy to investigate real crime, as they are pouncing on someone daring to sit down for a drink when on a long walk/run who has accidently travelled outside their "local" area.
 
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RailUK Forums

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I decided to contact the police this week due to my upcoming situation to ensure I don’t end up with a FPN.

I’m doing a home renovation project and will have to live between my parents in Manchester (on my days off work) and my brother in London (between shifts). My brothers flat is simply too small to accommodate my wife, a 4 month old baby and myself for a 4-5 month period. My parents house is much more ideal. So I’ll forced to commute between Cheshire and London regularly by car/train to enable me to continue working (or stay with one of my brothers).

I do wonder how many times I’ll be stopped. I’ve become very familiar with London (where the chances of getting stopped are near to zero), but I don’t know what life is like near Manchester. Interesting times and I still cannot believe I need to even be worried about such a set up.

And before anyone says.... why don’t you delay the project. Well, I already have since April and it can’t be delayed any further. And I never budgeted to pay for rental or hotel accommodation nightly so that’s not possible either.
 

Skimpot flyer

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The fact that my friend who travelled up yesterday from Carlisle was stopped 3 times (at Carlisle, onboard and at Central) and asked for a reason and if they had anything to back it up (so they tell me!)
Not that one is advocating it, but surely, if asked the purpose of your journey, a simple explanation of ‘for work’ would suffice? Do you have to provide proof? What exactly constitutes proof, anyway, and are you legally obliged to carry such proof?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

By calling the person a smart arse? That seems needlessly antagonistic
That same phrase, if used by the teenager to the police officer, would probably have resulted in him being arrested, though
:s
 
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Watershed

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This is an excellent post, and something I’ve thought from the get-go with this.

An “excuse” is something we used to manufacture at school when we didn’t want to do sport for whatever reason. Use of this term confers wrong-doing, which isn’t the case at all for someone who has a medical exemption in the case of masks, or has a legally admissible reason to be outdoors during the current farce.

To me it’s just more Bullingdon Club arrogant out-of-touch conceitedness.
I would concur. There is something deeply troubling about a society that is so willing to accept it's a crime to exist as a human being. That is essentially what has happened (for all practical intents and purposes) since the removal of "outdoor recreation" as a defined reasonable excuse.

Criminalising the mere act of sitting on a bench in an empty park tells you everything you need to know about the nasty, authoritarian "something must be done" sentiment the government is taking advantage of.

I note this point was raised by a straight-talking Tory MP during the Parliamentary debate yesterday, but as per normal, his concerns were brushed aside by a harried minion Minister who blathered on about how we must stay at home to save the NHS.

Even if the government felt it necessary to include such restrictions to prevent the unpopular reoccurrence of the (legal) day out to Bournemouth beach etc., surely a mileage or county limit for outdoor recreation would have sufficed?

Not that one is advocating it, but surely, if asked the purpose of your journey, a simple explanation of ‘for work’ would suffice? Do you have to provide proof? What exactly constitutes proof, anyway, and are you legally obliged to carry such proof?
It mostly comes down to credibility and the 'attitude test' again. If you're wearing something that's clearly work clothing, or a work lanyard, and are travelling around typical working hours and say who you work for, you're unlikely to have any problems even if stopped. A group of teenagers not obviously from the same household, giving shifting and dubious explanations? A different story.

The Regulations don't require that anyone carries proof with them to legally leave home (don't give anyone any ideas...!), but if the police doubted your explanation then they could issue you with a FPN or take your details. You would then potentially have to fight it in Court if prosecuted. It would then fall to the Court to determine whether it accepted your stated reasonable excuse, based on the usual criminal standards and types of evidence.
 
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Skimpot flyer

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I just walked to my local aldi (in not a nice part of town) and there was a prostitute on the street. Do her clients visiting her count as an essential journey?
(She was wearing a face mask which I assume she takes off if required for work)
Her clients could be charged with being inside without reasonable excuse, presumably...
;)
 

johntea

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I went into town to visit the bank today and plenty of people were out and about, certainly nothing like the 'ghost town' atmosphere of the March 2020 lockdown

Got chatting to the bank staff who mentioned they've had no staff off due to Covid, so think it is fair to assume handling money isn't as dangerous as people were initially panicking about either!
 

6862

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If we needed any more confirmation that we now live in a dystopian police state, here it is. It also shows that for an increasing number of us, the police and government are the biggest enemy. They are more of a threat than the virus.

BBC News - Coronavirus: Women on exercise trip 'surrounded by police' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-55560814

Two women have described how they were surrounded by police, read their rights and fined £200 each after driving five miles to take a walk.
The women were also told the hot drinks they had brought along were not allowed as they were "classed as a picnic".
Guidance for the current lockdown says people can travel for exercise as long as it is in their "local area".
 
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brick60000

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If we needed any more confirmation that we now live in a dystopian police state, here it is. It also shows that for an increasing number of us, the police and government are the biggest enemy. They are more of a threat than the virus.

BBC News - Coronavirus: Women on exercise trip 'surrounded by police' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-55560814

That’s some quite chilling reading! Any the fact that the police force haven’t condemned it afterwards as has often been the case is even more concerning.

So basically, I could travel 5 miles to walk. One officer would say that’s completely reasonable and not fine me. Another could fine me. And both, within the law, are right - according to the police force . I’m sorry, what!?
 

TheBeard

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That’s some quite chilling reading! Any the fact that the police force haven’t condemned it afterwards as has often been the case is even more concerning.

So basically, I could travel 5 miles to walk. One officer would say that’s completely reasonable and not fine me. Another could fine me. And both, within the law, are right - according to the police force . I’m sorry, what!?
And you said they haven't imposed a Police State controlling our every move?
 

VauxhallandI

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If we needed any more confirmation that we now live in a dystopian police state, here it is. It also shows that for an increasing number of us, the police and government are the biggest enemy. They are more of a threat than the virus.

BBC News - Coronavirus: Women on exercise trip 'surrounded by police' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-55560814
No Have Your Say on that BBC article is there! I'd love to hear the Lockdon lovers defend this, I'm waiting
 

Reliablebeam

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Didn't Derbyshire police try some controversial tactics last time around? Police up there clearly have a lot of time on their hands.
 

py_megapixel

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If we needed any more confirmation that we now live in a dystopian police state, here it is. It also shows that for an increasing number of us, the police and government are the biggest enemy. They are more of a threat than the virus.

BBC News - Coronavirus: Women on exercise trip 'surrounded by police' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-55560814
Ever since this started, Derbyshire Police specifically seem to have had a bit of a bee in their bonnet, so to speak, for people who want to spend their time in the open countryside, doing no harm to anyone else and improving their mental health.

I don't see how driving in a private vehicle a few miles out of town to go to an empty bit of countryside to walk is in any way "not in the spirit of the national effort... to reduce the possible spread of the disease". Yes, it may be true that "exercise could easily have been taken closer to a person's home", but Ashby-de-la-Zouch isn't a tiny place by any stretch... it's likely that some of the streets might be crowded.
 

philosopher

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That’s some quite chilling reading! Any the fact that the police force haven’t condemned it afterwards as has often been the case is even more concerning.

So basically, I could travel 5 miles to walk. One officer would say that’s completely reasonable and not fine me. Another could fine me. And both, within the law, are right - according to the police force . I’m sorry, what!?
From the article it says they were fined for breaking the ‘spirit’ of the lockdown
Two women have described how they were surrounded by police, read their rights and fined £200 each after driving five miles to take a walk.
The women were also told the hot drinks they had brought along were not allowed as they were "classed as a picnic".
Guidance for the current lockdown says people can travel for exercise as long as it is in their "local area".
The police force involved, Derbyshire Police, said driving for exercise was "not in the spirit" of lockdown.

From what I thought, the police can only enforce the letter of the law, so they were not breaking the law. Personally, if I was them, I would have refused to pay and contested the fine in a magistrates court.
 

Kite159

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That’s some quite chilling reading! Any the fact that the police force haven’t condemned it afterwards as has often been the case is even more concerning.

So basically, I could travel 5 miles to walk. One officer would say that’s completely reasonable and not fine me. Another could fine me. And both, within the law, are right - according to the police force . I’m sorry, what!?

Agreed, I could drive 5 miles and park up somewhere on Salisbury Plain and walk for miles without bumping into hardly anybody else.

But according to Derbyshire police I would be breaking the law and should stay local on a couple busy bridleways which have turned into muddy messes due to overuse, especially in narrow sections between trees. Or risk walking for 10 minutes along a 60 mph mainroad to access a quieter path.
 

Peter Mugridge

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Reading the article, it seems they've been fined more as a result of bringing the hot drink ( "that's a picnic!" said the copper...) with them than for the distance covered? 5 miles is easily local - you can walk that far in just over an hour.

Plus, combine that with - as a couple of others said above - it's Derbyshire...
 

cactustwirly

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Reading the article, it seems they've been fined more as a result of bringing the hot drink ( "that's a picnic!" said the copper...) with them than for the distance covered? 5 miles is easily local - you can walk that far in just over an hour.

Plus, combine that with - as a couple of others said above - it's Derbyshire...

Well that police officer has no idea what a picnic is obviously!!
They should contest it in court, as it'll probably be thrown out!
 

RomeoCharlie71

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After reading on Twitter, these two should be ashamed for breaking lockdown guidance as it would involve an unnecessary trip to the petrol station and if they had an accident on the road it would be putting pressure on NHS services.

Is this seriously the low point we have got to?
 

Mojo

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It’s almost as if there’s a plan to completely wind down everyone’s trust in the police in preparation for the next Black Lives Matter riots in the summer at which the police find they have alienated support in groups that previously supported them.
 

Cdd89

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So basically, I could travel 5 miles to walk. One officer would say that’s completely reasonable and not fine me. Another could fine me. And both, within the law, are right - according to the police force . I’m sorry, what!?

It’s worse than that.

Your chances of being questioned, disbelieved and fined go up measurably if you belong to certain socioeconomic groups, and you may well nothave the nouse to contact the media either.

Your ability to pay a fine also has a chilling effect - if £100 is a lot of money to you, you won’t take any chances. If it’s the price of a meal out you wouldn’t think twice.

You’d think after the strength of feeling for BLM, people might realise how damaging it is to have laws that are basically enforced at police discretion.

But bizarrely, the most ‘progressive’ people are often those supporting restrictive lockdowns, and tough police action following on from that, most strongly. Including the odious Susan Michie who raised funds from the sale of a £50m painting...
 

geoffk

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After reading on Twitter, these two should be ashamed for breaking lockdown guidance as it would involve an unnecessary trip to the petrol station and if they had an accident on the road it would be putting pressure on NHS services.

Is this seriously the low point we have got to?
Guidance is not the law. Also anyone can slip down a break a leg outside their house! (I'm extra careful when I go out in this weather).
 

Sprinter153

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Local councillors in Spondon (a suburb of Derby) have even issued a map of which parks and green spaces it is ‘legal’ to use.

It’s frightening how poor the knowledge of our elected representatives is.
 

Cdd89

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After reading on Twitter, these two should be ashamed for breaking lockdown guidance as it would involve an unnecessary trip to the petrol station



HALF OF THE patients admitted to intensive care units with Covid-19 have chronic heart disease, the Chief Medical Officer has revealed.

This evening Dr Tony Holohan provided an analysis of the first 327 cases of patients with Covid-19 admitted to intensive care units.

Half of these patients had chronic heart disease, 76 had chronic respiratory disease and 74 had diabetes. The CMO said there were 53 patients who had a BMI [body mass index] greater than 40, 34 of the patients had asthma requiring medication, 31 had cancer and 20 had chronic renal disease.

(And that’s before we get to the immediate mental health benefits of exercise, and the fact that a mental health patient needing hospital admission takes up a bed as good as any other Covid patient).

Are you sure you want to be discouraging exercise? Whether people can technically walk around the same local green 7 days a week is irrelevant. The only question is whether they will, or whether they’ll sit at home instead.
 

Kite159

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Or those who think someone can exercise by walking around the block a few times. Yes you can but depending on the road layout you might have to stop/start if crossing any roads etc.
 

kristiang85

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I had to laugh at this tweet from West Murcia police...

Broseley&Wenlock SNT
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There have been 2 reports of snowballs being thrown last night between 11 & 11:30pm. This is obviously not a justifiable reason to be out of your house, this behaviour is likely to result in a £200 Fixed Penalty Notice for breaking the lockdown rules.

Clearly it's quiet times for them.

Although, as someone noted in this post, everybody standing outside at the same time clapping for the NHS is a valid reason to be outside.

Edit: Ah it seems 3 hours later they clarified it was being thrown at a house with elderly residents, which makes more sense for it to be looked at. However, why not mention that first rather than the 'crime' of being outside? Again, police just don't seem to have a sense of how to get the public on their side. I guess they clarified later as every single reply to their original tweet was taking the Mickey out of them (which was actually nice to see).
 

Iskra

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Reading the article, it seems they've been fined more as a result of bringing the hot drink ( "that's a picnic!" said the copper...) with them than for the distance covered? 5 miles is easily local - you can walk that far in just over an hour.

Plus, combine that with - as a couple of others said above - it's Derbyshire...
If hot drinks are uniquely dangerous, why are cafe's in Derbyshire still allowed to be open for Take Away?

The Derbyshire bee-in-the-bonnet seems to be an exercise in Nimby hostility towards the population of other local places that are not Derbyshire, visiting the the local countryside that is often in Derbyshire due to its strange shape and many borders with other areas.

My wallet will remember this when Derbyshire businesses are crying out for tourist spend in x months time.
 

roversfan2001

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There should be no exemption from wearing a mask, given the current crisis. All the exemptions are excuses really. It's a thin piece of material. All the weak excuses about asthma, or some phobia are just - the dog ate my homework style of excuses.

You could even wear a mask over the tubes up your nose, if you are on oxygen, and breathing wise, if you need to be on oxygen, then you don't get much more ill than that.
What a horrendously ignorant post.
 

island

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According to a Facebook friend who has dissected the law each time it changes (as opposed to the guidelines), visiting somebody else's home for sex is legal, provided that one of the participants is a prostitute (or the people are within a support bubble). Believe it or not.
This corresponds with my understanding of the law.
 

E100

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Reading this Derbyshire Police article really got my blood boiling. Whilst in general I broadly support restrictions where medium - high risk activities are prohibited logically, this is a gross misuse of authority and makes no sense. People are fed up of this and stressed out now. Honestly, people should be encouraged to get out and about into the countryside right now if they can. The Health benefits are excellent and much better to meet with a friend outdoors for a walk than go round to someones house. Creative lower risk activities should be encouraged across the board even if that involves a car journey.
 
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