Police checking travel

[roversfan2001]

The descent into authoritarianism gets steeper every day. That is appalling.

 

[bramling]

Daily mail article but:

Police will fine people FIRST time they are caught not wearing a mask

Scotland Yard revealed officers will be told to stop civilians in the street and quiz them on why they are not shut away in their homes.

www.dailymail.co.uk

A surefire way to lose public trust and compliance

Civil disobedience will come...

 

[WelshBluebird]

If people could lay off the hyperbole (e.g. calling masks "muzzles") then it would be a lot easier to have a reasonable conversation.

And what exactly is one metre plus, apart from another Boris fudge?

Surely at the moment if things are as dire as we are being told, it should be distance as much as possible? Yet masks seem to make some, or even many, people feel they don’t need to do this.

I think we all know masks were a reassurance tool, brought in at a time when the government was attempting to encourage people back to their workplaces or into shops. We now have a situation where it seems distancing is more important, yet people are treating a reassurance tool (which doesn’t seem to be having much if any effect at reducing spread) as a viable mitigation measure. People simply weren’t doing that to anything like the same extent in the March to July period last year.

The whole 1m+ / masks thing was basically an admission that in some cases, 2m just doesn't work (like in some supermarkets for example).
It isn't license to ignore distancing altogether.

 

[island]

dont pay the fine. go to court and say you were exempt. they are not allowed to ask to prove your exemption. And make a civil claim for disability discrimination.

A court certainly is allowed to ask you to prove your exemption.

Civil disobedience will come...

This forum has been predicting imminent civil disobedience since last June.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2021 ==

If people could lay off the hyperbole (e.g. calling masks "muzzles") then it would be a lot easier to have a reasonable conversation.

The whole 1m+ / masks thing was basically an admission that in some cases, 2m just doesn't work (like in some supermarkets for example).
It isn't license to ignore distancing altogether.

agreed.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Daily mail article but:

Police will fine people FIRST time they are caught not wearing a mask

Scotland Yard revealed officers will be told to stop civilians in the street and quiz them on why they are not shut away in their homes.

www.dailymail.co.uk

A surefire way to lose public trust and compliance

Err...

Police fined four men £800 for driving to McDonald's

Why? If it's illegal to drive to McDonald's then surely they should not be open?

 

[BJames]

Err...

Why? If it's illegal to drive to McDonald's then surely they should not be open?

Probably Daily Mail being slightly economical with the truth, perhaps it was four men from four separate households who couldn't justify why they were together. Is car sharing in this way ruled against in the regulations, I seem to remember it was?

 

[WelshBluebird]

Why? If it's illegal to drive to McDonald's then surely they should not be open?

It isn't the driving to McDonald's that they got fined for - it is the mixing of households.
Actually reading the story often helps.
From the article - "Enquiries confirmed the four were not from the same household, so the journey breached lockdown rules which officially came into force at midnight".

 

[stevetay3]

This is all getting out of hand now, and I don’t mean the virus it’s the fall out from it I despair about

 

[island]

Probably Daily Mail being slightly economical with the truth, perhaps it was four men from four separate households who couldn't justify why they were together. Is car sharing in this way ruled against in the regulations, I seem to remember it was?

It isn't the driving to McDonald's that they got fined for - it is the mixing of households.
Actually reading the story often helps.
From the article - "Enquiries confirmed the four were not from the same household, so the journey breached lockdown rules which officially came into force at midnight".

Yes, it’s illegal to have a gathering of 4 people from different households/bubbles/etc. outdoors unless an exemption applies.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Yes, it’s illegal to have a gathering of 4 people from different households/bubbles/etc. outdoors unless an exemption applies.

Ah fair enough, my bad.

 

[stevetay3]

If travel is so illegal, why are the train companies not being nicked as aiding offenders ? We don’t need a train every 20 minutes to Manchester or Brum nor half hourly to Scotland just for so called essential journeys.

 

[Ianno87]

We don’t need a train every 20 minutes to Manchester or Brum nor half hourly to Scotland just for so called essential journeys.

Good thing that neither of those are currently operating at the minute, then.

 

[WelshBluebird]

If travel is so illegal, why are the train companies not being nicked as aiding offenders ? We don’t need a train every 20 minutes to Manchester or Brum nor half hourly to Scotland just for so called essential journeys.

Incase you missed it, there are already plans to cut rail services by ~50% and this is being discussed in another thread - https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/50-60-of-services-to-be-cut-due-to-impact-of-covid.212861/. In terms of why we have train services at all - some people are still having to travel as there are a fair few legitimate reasons.

 

[66701GBRF]

If travel is so illegal

travel is not illegal!

 

[stevetay3]

Good thing that neither of those are currently operating at the minute, then.

It is according to tiger rail & Real time trains

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2021 ==

travel is not illegal!

So why are the police stopping people under this so call law, is it illegal or not

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2021 ==

Incase you missed it, there are already plans to cut rail services by ~50% and this is being discussed in another thread - https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/50-60-of-services-to-be-cut-due-to-impact-of-covid.212861/. In terms of why we have train services at all - some people are still having to travel as there are a fair few legitimate reasons.

We need action now not next week or month

 

[Philip]

You can see how the officer is trying to rile the person to try and escalate the situation.

I would say the officer was just trying to do his job against a person being obstinate and with an attitude.

 

[Ediswan]

Let's not get over excited. Police officers are being told to go straight to issuing fines for obvious/blatant/egregious breaches. Not for all suspected braches.

 

[stevetay3]

I would say the officer is just trying to do his job against a person being obstinate and with an attitude.

And if you have an attitude you get fined you get done and if you say sorry sir you dont, total farce. No in a police state now.

 

[Mojo]

So why are the police stopping people under this so call law, is it illegal or not

It is illegal if you do not have what is termed a "reasonable excuse." A reasonable excuse under this law could be visiting a garden centre, checking in with your support bubble or going to the Supermarket.

 

[stevetay3]

It is illegal if you do not have what is termed a "reasonable excuse." A reasonable excuse under this law could be visiting a garden centre, checking in with your support bubble or going to the Supermarket.

Garden center, what’s reasonable about them being open and I can’t sit on a bench in a park, and who decided what is ok the government or the cop.

 

[Philip]

And if you have an attitude you get fined you get done and if you say sorry sir you dont, total farce. No in a police state now.

This is no where near a police state. If it was a police state we'd have people getting thrown in jail or worse if they weren't wearing face coverings where they should be, with no exemptions. Not that I'm advocating anything like that either!

 

[WelshBluebird]

And if you have an attitude you get fined you get done and if you say sorry sir you dont, total farce. No in a police state now.

To be blunt - those on this forum should be well aware of "the attitude test" given that it is often used by railway staff to decide to someone should be let off, if someone should face a fine or if someone should be reported for prosecution. Why are some people here so shocked that the police use it too? Not to say that is right or wrong, but it is human instinct to treat someone in the same vain as they treat you. Someone being difficult onboard a train whilst not having a valid ticket is more likely to end up with a criminal record than someone who is apologetic and compliant. The police usually act in the same way - someone resisting arrest, or being difficult is often treated more harshly than someone who is apologetic etc.

 

[RT4038]

And if you have an attitude you get fined you get done and if you say sorry sir you dont, total farce. No in a police state now.

Hasn't it always been like this? Whether in a police state or not? Do you think you should have a right to give the Police some attitude and be let off?

 

[MikeWM]

To be blunt - those on this forum should be well aware of "the attitude test" given that it is often used by railway staff to decide to someone should be let off, if someone should face a fine or if someone should be reported for prosecution. Why are some people here so shocked that the police use it too?

I agree - but most of us are probably fairly law-abiding citizens and aren't used to everyday normal activity being illegal.

I'd say it is one thing to fail an attitude test when caught shoplifting or travelling without a ticket, and another thing altogether when 'caught' sitting on a park bench. It isn't unreasonable to be a bit irritated in the latter case!

 

[stevetay3]

This is no where near a police state. If it was a police state we'd have people getting thrown in jail or worse if they weren't wearing face coverings where they should be, with no exemptions. Not that I'm advocating anything like that either!

Give it time

 

[WelshBluebird]

I agree - but most of us are probably fairly law-abiding citizens and aren't used to everyday normal activity being illegal.

I'd say it is one thing to fail an attitude test when caught shoplifting or travelling without a ticket, and another thing altogether when 'caught' sitting on a park bench. It isn't unreasonable to be a bit irritated in the latter case!

None of us are used to it. Doesn't mean we all turn into idiots trying to be obstructive or difficult with a copper though.
In terms of more everyday things, try being a football fan. I've lost count of the number of times I've either experienced or seen coppers going OTT about "everyday normal activities" carried out by travelling away fans. Being obstructive or difficult doesn't help there either believe it or not.

 

[stevetay3]

Hasn't it always been like this? Whether in a police state or not? Do you think you should have a right to give the Police some attitude and be let off?

No I am not saying that, I have a right to tell them if I believe them to be wrong and I if I I am correct I should be apologised to not fined

 

[MikeWM]

None of us are used to it. Doesn't mean we all turn into idiots trying to be obstructive or difficult with a copper though.

In terms of more everyday things, try being a football fan. I've lost count of the number of times I've either experienced or seen coppers going OTT about "everyday normal activities" carried out by travelling away fans. Being obstructive or difficult doesn't help there either believe it or not.

I'm not saying it helps the individual who is stopped by the police - of course it doesn't. But I do see a distinction here. I have no sympathy with people who are annoyed at police for catching them doing something bad. The problem here is that normal lawful natural human behaviours have been criminalised, and whether helpful or not some people are going to be rather irritated by being prevented from doing so. Indeed, I would hope they are irritated and annoyed, though it would still probably be wise to hold your tongue nevertheless.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

There have been some really nasty statements on the news from the police over the past few days. I’ve heard of statements from the police including the following
- saying they will be taking details of anyone in a supermarket not wearing a muzzle, to allow them to investigate anyone claiming an exemption
- telling “key workers” [sic] to carry proof of employment for when they are stopped on their way to / from work
- advising they will be routinely stopping traffic and people to ask why they aren’t at home

I’m hoping this is all just a PR exercise rather like Shapps saying before Christmas that rail customers would be asked by police to explain where they’re going; it makes all the people locking themselves in at home feel good and sound whilst the problem is under control whilst the rest of us can just get on with it.

I have a 35 mile commute to work and as a shift worker I can travel at any time of the day and night. The journey takes me through 2 (sometimes 3 depending which way I go) police force areas.

During Lockdown 1 I was stopped by police only once. That was at about 1am about a mile from work where I take a short cut through a rather dodgy housing estate to avoid umpteen sets of traffic lights and endless road works on the main road. I was driving through said housing estate and I saw a police car pull out of a side road. They followed me briefly, no doubt checking out the details of the car. No doubt upon finding the vehicle was registered and insured 35 miles away in a different county they stopped me. When they pulled up alongside and asked me to open my window it was fairly obvious to me that they were disappointed they had not pulled up a drug dealer or some other ne'er-do-well. Upon seeing me in my work uniform they simply asked what I was doing and where I was going. I replied I was on my way home from work and told them the geographic area where I lived. No further checks were made. I was not asked for a letter or any evidence or work ID. With patently disappointed looks on their faces they pulled away and went off back down a side street further in to the estate.

At no other time on all the different variety of main roads, towns, villages and other areas I drive through did I get stopped.

I am not expecting this time to be any different, especially as there is quite obviously more traffic on the roads and more people about.

 

[RT4038]

No I am not saying that, I have a right to tell them if I believe them to be wrong and I if I I am correct I should be apologised to not fined

Yes, extremely tactfully and carefully. They hold more cards than you.