Police checking travel

[bramling]

If people could lay off the hyperbole (e.g. calling masks "muzzles") then it would be a lot easier to have a reasonable conversation.


The whole 1m+ / masks thing was basically an admission that in some cases, 2m just doesn't work (like in some supermarkets for example).
It isn't license to ignore distancing altogether.

Yet some people have clearly interpreted it as that, which may well be contributing to where we are now.

 

[stevetay3]

It’s time this attitude test thing was ended it doesn’t belong in the 21st century. I have made my views clear on this in other past threads.One has a right to challenge injustice of any sort anywhere in a free country

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2021 ==

Yes, extremely tactfully and carefully. They hold more cards than you.

In what way

 

[bramling]

I have a 35 mile commute to work and as a shift worker I can travel at any time of the day and night. The journey takes me through 2 (sometimes 3 depending which way I go) police force areas.

During Lockdown 1 I was stopped by police only once. That was at about 1am about a mile from work where I take a short cut through a rather dodgy housing estate to avoid umpteen sets of traffic lights and endless road works on the main road. I was driving through said housing estate and I saw a police car pull out of a side road. They followed me briefly, no doubt checking out the details of the car. No doubt upon finding the vehicle was registered and insured 35 miles away in a different county they stopped me. When they pulled up alongside and asked me to open my window it was fairly obvious to me that they were disappointed they had not pulled up a drug dealer or some other ne'er-do-well. Upon seeing me in my work uniform they simply asked what I was doing and where I was going. I replied I was on my way home from work and told them the geographic area where I lived. No further checks were made. I was not asked for a letter or any evidence or work ID. With patently disappointed looks on their faces they pulled away and went off back down a side street further in to the estate.

At no other time on all the different variety of main roads, towns, villages and other areas I drive through did I get stopped.

I am not expecting this time to be any different, especially as there is quite obviously more traffic on the roads and more people about.

I suspect the police are going to find they’re on a loser with this. I just went out to take one of the cars for a minor repair job, I’d say the roads round here were *busier* than one would expect on a normal weekday. Passing a Sainsbury’s the car park was literally bursting at the seams.

I don’t necessarily have a solution, as clearly there is an issue with NHS capacity, however this just isn’t working. We are paying hundreds of billions simply to transfer interactions from one setting to another.

 

[221129]

One has a right to challenge injustice of any sort anywhere in a free country

Yes you do, in court, in front of a judge.

The 'attitude test' is used in cases where discretion could be used. So you are advocating for a world with no discretion and following the rules to the letter...

 

[stevetay3]

I suspect the police are going to find they’re on a loser with this. I just went out to take one of the cars for a minor repair job, I’d say the roads round here were *busier* than one would expect on a normal weekday. Passing a Sainsbury’s the car park was literally bursting at the seams.

I don’t necessarily have a solution, as clearly there is an issue with NHS capacity, however this just isn’t working. We are paying hundreds of billions simply to transfer interactions from one setting to another.

It hasn’t worked right from the start. We need to lockdown completely or going back to normal before the mental health services get overwhelmed

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I suspect the police are going to find they’re on a loser with this. I just went out to take one of the cars for a minor repair job, I’d say the roads round here were *busier* than one would expect on a normal weekday. Passing a Sainsbury’s the car park was literally bursting at the seams.

I don’t necessarily have a solution, as clearly there is an issue with NHS capacity, however this just isn’t working. We are paying hundreds of billions simply to transfer interactions from one setting to another.

As I said somewhere, perhaps in this thread yesterday, that I have noted daytime traffic has not reduced at all, in some cases it has increased. Lots of people out walking in the rural area where I live, far more than would normally be the case on cold January midweek days. I have also noted quite a few groups of kids milling around together the past few days, often near shops or bus shelters.

Later on an evening however it is far quieter.

I drove home from work at 0030 last night and everywhere was deserted, far far quieter than it has been of late.

 

[roversfan2001]

It hasn’t worked right from the start. We need to lockdown completely or going back to normal before the mental health services get overwhelmed

We're at least 10 months too late to 'lockdown completely', probably even later than that. That ship has well and truly sailed. And there's no guarantee that it would be possible for a country as interconnected as ours.

 

[Trackman]

To be blunt - those on this forum should be well aware of "the attitude test" given that it is often used by railway staff to decide to someone should be let off, if someone should face a fine or if someone should be reported for prosecution. Why are some people here so shocked that the police use it too? Not to say that is right or wrong, but it is human instinct to treat someone in the same vain as they treat you. Someone being difficult onboard a train whilst not having a valid ticket is more likely to end up with a criminal record than someone who is apologetic and compliant. The police usually act in the same way - someone resisting arrest, or being difficult is often treated more harshly than someone who is apologetic etc.

If you fail the Police 'attitude test' you are in deep mire, there is no two ways about it.

 

[stevetay3]

Yes you do, in court, in front of a judge.

The 'attitude test' is used in cases where discretion could be used. So you are advocating for a world with no discretion and following the rules to the letter...

Discretion is not being used, you are being found guilty by someone who thinks you have an attitude because you stood up for yourself or they simply don’t like the look of you.

 

[greyman42]

You can see how the officer is trying to rile the person to try and escalate the situation.

Nothing new there then.

 

[stevetay3]

We're at least 10 months too late to 'lockdown completely', probably even later than that. That ship has well and truly sailed. And there's no guarantee that it would be possible for a country as interconnected as ours.

Well we best return to normal then

 

[Yew]

I would say the officer was just trying to do his job against a person being obstinate and with an attitude.

By calling the person a smart arse? That seems needlessly antagonistic

 

[greyman42]

I'm due to move house 250 miles in the next few weeks and will have to go by car for obvious reasons. Perhaps I should ask my solicitor for a letter in case of any problems.

Why should you.

 

[bramling]

It’s time this attitude test thing was ended it doesn’t belong in the 21st century. I have made my views clear on this in other past threads.One has a right to challenge injustice of any sort anywhere in a free country

Nothing new there then.

I thought the person stopped actually dealt with it reasonably well. He was polite but firm, despite being goaded. And where was the police’s respect for 1m+ distancing?

 

[greyman42]

A court certainly is allowed to ask you to prove your exemption.

And how are you going to do that?

 

[stevetay3]

And how are you going to do that?

In that case the courts would be overflowing like the NHS

 

[Jamiescott1]

According to an article on mail online, police are taking peoples names and addresses and fining them if they are not "local"

Police quiz people on park benches and hand out warning leaflets

Ms Patel spoke out after the Met revealed officers will be told to stop civilians and quiz them on why they are not at home and four friends were fined £800 for travelling in the same car to McDonald's.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Philip]

By calling the person a smart arse? That seems needlessly antagonistic

Still human and the person in question was pretty much asking for it with the kind of attitude he was showing.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2021 ==

According to an article on mail online, police are taking peoples names and addresses and fining them if they are not "local"

Police quiz people on park benches and hand out warning leaflets

Ms Patel spoke out after the Met revealed officers will be told to stop civilians and quiz them on why they are not at home and four friends were fined £800 for travelling in the same car to McDonald's.

www.dailymail.co.uk

It is from the Mail...inaccurate, antagonistic and headline-grabbing nonsense.

 

[joncombe]

We're at least 10 months too late to 'lockdown completely', probably even later than that. That ship has well and truly sailed. And there's no guarantee that it would be possible for a country as interconnected as ours.

I am not convinced that works anyway.

The Isle of Man has just gone back into lockdown having followed the strategy, due to some more cases. Not sure where they come from. Not sure if even the authorities know that.

It also really won't work in the UK. We are a net importer of food. If we entirely shut all the borders, how will we feed the population? If we don't, how do we stop infections coming in (given testing is not 100% perfect). That's why this strategy doesn't work in the UK - and possibly not anywhere, long-term.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I am not convinced that works anyway.

The Isle of Man has just gone back into lockdown having followed the strategy, due to some more cases. Not sure where they come from. Not sure if even the authorities know that.

It also really won't work in the UK. We are a net importer of food. If we entirely shut all the borders, how will we feed the population? If we don't, how do we stop infections coming in (given testing is not 100% perfect). That's why this strategy doesn't work in the UK - and possibly not anywhere, long-term.

Local Granada news was last night reporting that the Isle of Man cases were caused by someone coming to the Island, who DID quarantine for the required 14 days, but then still transmitted it to others when he came out of the 14 day quarantine.

 

[Richard Scott]

Local Granada news was last night reporting that the Isle of Man cases were caused by someone coming to the Island, who DID quarantine for the required 14 days, but then still transmitted it to others when he came out of the 14 day quarantine.

Just goes to show that viruses will always find a way through, these places that think they're on top of it all and sitting smuggly now won't be smug for long!

 

[Jamiescott1]

I just walked to my local aldi (in not a nice part of town) and there was a prostitute on the street. Do her clients visiting her count as an essential journey?
(She was wearing a face mask which I assume she takes off if required for work)

 

[SuspectUsual]

If you fail the Police 'attitude test' you are in deep mire, there is no two ways about it.

That is undoubtedly true.

On another note, the expression “reasonable excuse” really irritates me. People don’t have an excuse, they have a reason. An excuse is something that may be used to explain rule-breaking, a reason is why someone wasn’t breaking the rules. Maybe a six syllable phrase was too much for the current Government’s obsession with simple words

 

[bramling]

That is undoubtedly true.

On another note, the expression “reasonable excuse” really irritates me. People don’t have an excuse, they have a reason. An excuse is something that may be used to explain rule-breaking, a reason is why someone wasn’t breaking the rules. Maybe a six syllable phrase was too much for the current Government’s obsession with simple words

This is an excellent post, and something I’ve thought from the get-go with this.

An “excuse” is something we used to manufacture at school when we didn’t want to do sport for whatever reason. Use of this term confers wrong-doing, which isn’t the case at all for someone who has a medical exemption in the case of masks, or has a legally admissible reason to be outdoors during the current farce.

To me it’s just more Bullingdon Club arrogant out-of-touch conceitedness.

 

[SuspectUsual]

To me it’s just more Bullingdon Club arrogant out-of-touch conceitedness.

I must admit I hadn’t seen it quite like that - more as yet another example of their utter lack of attention to detail and slipshod ways of working

 

[bramling]

I must admit I hadn’t seen it quite like that - more as yet another example of their utter lack of attention to detail and slipshod ways of working

I’d say the two go hand in hand to be honest. Lack of exposure to normal life leading to poor judgement, and as you say poor attention to detail.

 

[island]

If travel is so illegal, why are the train companies not being nicked as aiding offenders ? We don’t need a train every 20 minutes to Manchester or Brum nor half hourly to Scotland just for so called essential journeys.

The offence of aiding an offender can only be committed as respects an indictable offence, which the lockdown-related offences are not.

 

[Ianno87]

I just walked to my local aldi (in not a nice part of town) and there was a prostitute on the street. Do her clients visiting her count as an essential journey?
(She was wearing a face mask which I assume she takes off if required for work)

According to a Facebook friend who has dissected the law each time it changes (as opposed to the guidelines), visiting somebody else's home for sex is legal, provided that one of the participants is a prostitute (or the people are within a support bubble). Believe it or not.

 

[Kite159]

According to a Facebook friend who has dissected the law each time it changes (as opposed to the guidelines), visiting somebody else's home for sex is legal, provided that one of the participants is a prostitute (or the people are within a support bubble). Believe it or not.

I wonder which MP pressured for that to get added

 

[Cowley]

I wonder which MP pressured for that to get added