Paddington stampede

[table38]

It's rubbish if you're driving

Gerry Anderson had the right idea, as it might actually improve crash-worthiness if the driver was in the rear cab

Within the hermetically-sealed control compartment, the driver, co-driver and a passenger are seated backwards, facing the rear, to reduce the possibility of injury in the event of a crash; the driver is aided by a video monitor displaying (vertically-flipped) forward and rear views.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum_Pursuit_Vehicle

 

[bb21]

Yeah, that's China though. Not Japan! And I don't know what cities in Britain you travel in but wherever I've travelled in the UK people crowd the door closest to the platform entrance, slowing alighting passengers and then slowly crushing themselves into one part of a carriage.

Yes, and if you don't do that in Shanghai in rush hour, expect not to be able to get on, and the next one, and the next one, and the next one...

Meanwhile most of the lines are at capacity yet passenger numbers still keep increasing, at an astonishing rate.

 

[6Gman]

It appears that other people are saying the same thing happens at other London termini.

Do you have any idea of how much may be involved in the turnarounds?

Since you are such an expert in railway timetabling and operation, as this and other threads have proved, I presume you have applied to NR and all the TOC's to offer your expertise?

Well, I spent 20 years in train planning (now retired) and I find announcing platforms at such short notice poor practice. Particularly unfair to passengers with mobility problems, children, heavy luggage etc.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Waiting for the platform number at Paddington Station

Actually I'm sure I've seen that chap at Euston!

 

[Tibbs]

But the train will be boarded by Japanese people who generally keep calm and listen to instructions.

It won't work in this country as there are people from many different backgrounds and we have a 'me first' attitude, where we all want to be first on the train.

At Heathrow, a security check is performed on all arriving trains and announcements are made not to board the train before it even arrives. However there is always someone gagging to get on the train as soon as it arrives, despite repeated announcements!

The queueing would work in the UK if the trains stopped by the boards. Make no mistake, Brits love to queue.

At Bushey it was normal for the train to stop up to 1/2 car length before the sign and sometimes 1.5 cars beyond (our train was 8 cars long when the platform is long enough for 12). We used to stand in the right place for the doors when train stopped at the sign, but it rarely worked. Get the trains to hit the same spot every day (as the japanese trains do) and you'll get a very similar result here, I'm sure.

/disclaimer we always had a 350, so that made it easier, but still, I'm sure different marks for different trains could be used.

 

[BestWestern]

The cleaning teams at Paddington are superb. If you've ever witnessed them descend on an eight coach HST and have it spun around in five or ten minutes you can't fail to agree. However, this is only possible because the train is empty and devoid of hoardes of impatient passengers trying to board. Seat reservations in particular tend not to work well when half the seats are occupied before the labels are applied, and many a strong word has been had with particularly ignorant specimens who think that it becomes 'their' seat because they got to it before the labeller. Unfortunately it simply takes too long to go through and close all the doors on an HST; waiting for the inevitable stragglers who wish to stay say in their seats for five minutes after the train arrives and so on, and it would divert staff away from their preparatory duties which in turn would delay proceedings.

 

[heart-of-wessex]

Waiting for the platform number at Paddington Station

ROFL!!! !!!

 

[DarloRich]

The main reason for my annoyance on this occasion was that for about 20 minutes the train status was 'Preparing', so barring very last minute changes it was known which platform it was on, yet the board and the information clerk gave the impression of not wanting us to know.

have you considered that there may have been a train fault or issue meaning that fitters/staff were on/around/under the train working to try and rectify the fault and that rather than announce a platform only to change it when the train was declared a failure to was more sensible to wait for a few minutes to make sure everything was ok?

I realise that having to wait is a terrible burden but it isn’t really the end of the world.

 

[Flamingo]

A while ago, I was working a West Country train from Pad, which had a set-swap. Before it was announced, I walked through prepping it, to have 30+ people who had boarded asking me "Is this the Taunton train?". I confirmed it was going to Taunton, indeed I told a few they should not have boarded before it was announced, to be called a jobs worth by one, and given a look that said the same by others. The customer knows best!

About 10 minutes later, after departure, when I walked through the train, the same passengers were shouting at me, because they wanted the train to Taunton via Swindon, Bath and Bristol (where they were going to) not the West Country train calling at Taunton after calling at Newbury and Pewsey!

The moral is, 1. Wait until the platform has been called, and 2. Ask for where you are going to, not where is the train going to!

 

[trainophile]

have you considered that there may have been a train fault or issue meaning that fitters/staff were on/around/under the train working to try and rectify the fault and that rather than announce a platform only to change it when the train was declared a failure to was more sensible to wait for a few minutes to make sure everything was ok?

I realise that having to wait is a terrible burden but it isn’t really the end of the world.

It's not the waiting so much as the eventual scramble and crush to get through the gates. I'm 62 (there goes my street cred) and husband is 68, and we both had medium-sized cases having been away for four nights. It was quite scary to be caught up in the scrum tbh.

If they could avoid the bottleneck situation somehow it would be a lot better.

 

[HowardGWR]

It's not the waiting so much as the eventual scramble and crush to get through the gates. I'm 62 (there goes my street cred) and husband is 68, and we both had medium-sized cases having been away for four nights. It was quite scary to be caught up in the scrum tbh.

If they could avoid the bottleneck situation somehow it would be a lot better.

Can the scrum not be avoided simply by not joining it?

 

[ModernRailways]

Can the scrum not be avoided simply by not joining it?

That 'scrum' is usually there for a good few minutes, and depending on the circumstances may mean missing the train. I've seen at Kings Cross the 'scrum' last a good 10 minutes or so when a train is late and they aren't exactly short on barriers there like they are at PAD.

 

[Tibbs]

Can the scrum not be avoided simply by not joining it?

And on a train with no reservations, you have to be in it to get a seat!

 

[SephenWorceste]

> There is a nice little waiting room with a departures board at the far west of the station, near the P16 ramp entrance. Even if the train is departing from P1, I can't imagine missing it (unless one is in a situation where booked assistance is required anyway)

Thank you. I tried the lounge today, It was great to have somewhere to sit and be able to read the departure board. Very quiet and relaxing too. All the times I have waited and never knew about this lounge. I don't think I have ever been to that end of the station.

Best wishes, Stephen.

 

[GatwickDepress]

At London Euston, some of the platforms have it so most of one coach is hidden behind the ramp. Always a chance of getting a seat on an LM service there!

 

[David Goddard]

Paddington is a scrum whenever I have been there - whatever day of the week.
As others have done, I often assess the HSTs which are present, work out those spoken for, then if unassigned sets are in 1, 8 or 9 go and check out the window labels.

I know its not always possible, but it would (as I have suggested before) make things much simpler for all if regular services had regular platforms allocated, for example at Paddington set all West Countries from 1 (as many actually do), Bristols from 2/3, Swanseas from 4/5, and Cheltenhams & Oxfords from 8 and 9

Likewise at Kings Cross (for example) use 0&1 for Yorks, Lincs and Humber, 2&3 for Leeds, 4&5 for Scotland, 6&7 for Newcastle and 8 for Open Access.

There would always on occasion be swaps due to train faults but as least a fair chunk of people would know where to go and you could disperse the queues.

 

[Flamingo]

And when a Swansea gets swapped onto platform one?

The current system is not perfect, but as a busy operational terminus designed over 100 years ago, Paddington works ok. A few tens of thousands of people a day seem to manage it with minimal help.

And just from the point of view of preparing a train, people boarding before the service are announced are a bloody nuisance and get in the way. The trains are called as soon as they are ready. If it has not been called, it is for a reason, and people on board who have no business there are only getting in the way, delaying the staff from announcing the train for everybody else.

I have taken to saying "I don't know" and walking off when people on board before the train has been announced ask me "Is this the train to X?"

 

[Tetchytyke]

Can the scrum not be avoided simply by not joining it?

If you can guarantee your seat reservation sticker will be out, then probably.

If you don't have a reservation, or there are no reservations, then if you don't join the scrum you won't be sitting down.

 

[stut]

If you can guarantee your seat reservation sticker will be out, then probably.

If you don't have a reservation, or there are no reservations, then if you don't join the scrum you won't be sitting down.

See also, on Cornwall trains in the summer, being able to find space for your luggage!

 

[HowardGWR]

If you can guarantee your seat reservation sticker will be out, then probably.

If you don't have a reservation, or there are no reservations, then if you don't join the scrum you won't be sitting down.

I just wonder if I am ignorant here. Is it so that there is one barrier for the group of platforms? If so I could imagine that one could get caught in queue composed of people for several trains. Otherwise I can't see how you could miss a train.
Regarding not having reservations, surely the worst would be that one would stand until Reading?

 

[Flamingo]

Or have to walk down to A or B before finding a double seat to yourself...

 

[HowardGWR]

Or have to walk down to A or B before finding a double seat to yourself...

Well you are he who knows! I've just had a look with SV. Indeed there is set of barriers for groups of platforms. So I see the problem, which of course did not exist for 100 years, as there were no sets of barriers for 90 of them.
What to do?

 

[34D]

King's Cross have done it a couple of times - the train has been on the board, I've got on, to be confronted by an angry guard who was insistent that the train hadn't been announced yet as it wasn't ready!

I've had this happen at Leeds before. Platform monitors, window labels, apps etc said platform 8 for London. I and others boarded and were threatened with BTP by a jobsworth type.

Lock the doors if the train isn't ready. Or get these Japanese style barriers.

 

[Flamingo]

I've had this happen at Leeds before. Platform monitors, window labels, apps etc said platform 8 for London. I and others boarded and were threatened with BTP by a jobsworth type.

Lock the doors if the train isn't ready. Or get these Japanese style barriers.

Why should the door need to be locked?

Just seen it was on the screens. In that case it should have been ready.

 

[FOH]

Why should the door need to be locked?

Just seen it was on the screens. In that case it should have been ready.

It's useful in situations where the train was late in but is still being serviced, that means it will not finish servicing until quite close to departure time. So lock the doors but advertise the platform, the customers will wait outside until the doors are released but won't have to scramble from the concourse with only a minute or two to spare.
This also happens regularly for my trains at London Bridge where they are being split or joined.

 

[rebmcr]

It's useful in situations where the train was late in but is still being serviced, that means it will not finish servicing until quite close to departure time. So lock the doors but advertise the platform, the customers will wait outside until the doors are released but won't have to scramble from the concourse with only a minute or two to spare.
This also happens regularly for my trains at London Bridge where they are being split or joined.

That's how they do it at Manchester Piccadilly too, seems to work just fine.

 

[Deerfold]

It doesn't help when they're trying to sort out the train and not announce it when it's been on NRE for 10 minutes.

 

[dcsprior]

They do it for ****s and giggles obviously, nothing funnier than watching 500 passengers legging for a train on a Friday evening. All the staff get their coffees and stand around having a good laugh.

Or maybe it is because the services are exceptionally busy at that time and they cannot turn them all around any quicker.

I don't think the OP was asking for the train to be turned around any quicker - just for the platform to be displayed/announced while the train is still being worked on? That way passengers can wait outside the door of their carriage rather than on the concourse.

 

[Michael.Y]

If the doors on an HST were locked, how would cleaners, catering staff, security personnel, fitters, platform staff and others access the train in case they needed to? Go all the way up to the Guards van and back down again?

 

[stut]

If the doors on an HST were locked, how would cleaners, catering staff, security personnel, fitters, platform staff and others access the train in case they needed to? Go all the way up to the Guards van and back down again?

Have something like this across the door:

 

[jon0844]

Have something like this across the door:

In this country, you can't just look at what is done elsewhere and copy it. No, that would be far too easy.

You first set up a committee that will travel the world to look at what is done elsewhere, like the above. Then you come back and make a detailed report, then seek to get funding to carry out trials, do some focus group testing, and then look at what was done elsewhere but wonder what it might be like to 'improve' upon it.

Then about twenty years later, after huge cost, you introduce something that isn't anything like what worked perfectly well elsewhere (like a sign hanging up by the door) and is so complicated that you end up reverting to just making everyone stampede down the platform like they always did...!