Paddington stampede

[Geezertronic]

I object to the use of the term "Preparing" (which I've seen at Euston). The train is not "Preparing". It is Being Prepared.

There's probably only room on that part of the matrix screen for either "Preparing", "Boarding", "Delayed" etc... so it's not a big deal really

 

[EM2]

I object to the use of the term "Preparing" (which I've seen at Euston). The train is not "Preparing". It is Being Prepared.

The train is not 'Boarding' either, but 'Being Boarded'. However, everyone knows what is meant.

 

[talltim]

It would be better if once arriving passengers had alighted the train, the doors were locked. Departing passengers could then be informed of the platform and encouraged to space themselves out down the platform while the train was cleaned. Then once the train is cleaned the doors can be unlocked with passengers ready to board and no stampede.

That's what EMT do at Sheffield. Obviously it's harder to hide what platform the London services will be on than at a big terminus, but they do put them on the boards as soon as any other train

 

[dk1]

Unfortunate but that's how it is sometimes. Won't get any better any time soon, what with more & more passengers, a booming economy & little in the way of extra rolling stock in the short to medium term. Best travel at a quieter time of day if you can find one.

 

[trainophile]

The main reason for my annoyance on this occasion was that for about 20 minutes the train status was 'Preparing', so barring very last minute changes it was known which platform it was on, yet the board and the information clerk gave the impression of not wanting us to know.

Something about the layout at Paddington is very claustrophobic, around the display boards and on the concourse generally. I don't find this at Kings Cross or Euston.

Agree with bb21 that it's ludicrous to expect a few hundred passengers, who know they only have minutes to find their carriage and seats, to file calmly through the barriers - human nature isn't like that. I don't know whether Slough, Reading and Oxford are barriered, but if so there's an hour (less 'other duties' time) for a ticket check, which although would be a rush, could be a walk through "tickets please" glance to ensure everyone has one, rather than a close inspection.

(I know this is a silly idea as people would soon get the message that you only have to wave any old ticket at the guard.) Perhaps a RPI could be diagrammed to start from one end of the train while the guard starts from the other. The RPI could return to London from Oxford when passenger loadings have thinned out.

I know absolutely nothing about this, so feel free to laugh, but I do think something needs to be done before some old dear gets mown down and trampled in the chaos.

It was bad enough at 1922, goodness knows what the 1722 and 1822 were like.

 

[Flying Snail]

The main reason for my annoyance on this occasion was that for about 20 minutes the train status was 'Preparing', so barring very last minute changes it was known which platform it was on, yet the board and the information clerk gave the impression of not wanting us to know.

That is because they don't want you to know.

It says "preparing" because that is what is happening.

If they announced the train then how well do you think the cleaners would get on cleaning the train with it being swarmed by passengers?

The guard also has to put out the reservation labels, tanks may require to be filled and there may be defects to be attended by fitters all of which will be made difficult if not impossible to do with a peak load of pasengers boarding.

I am sure the station staff would rather you be off their concourse and on the train as early as possible both to clear space and to avoid having endless questions about where the train is but as previously said for numerous reasons there are tight turnarounds and it is not always possible to have an extended boarding time.

 

[trainophile]

I still don't see why they can't let us onto the platform while keeping the train doors locked until they have finished their routines. At least people could stand by their carriage, especially if it's at the far end of the train, and spread out along the platform rather than bunching around the information boards and finally charging like a pack of hounds towards the barriers.

 

[LewFinnis]

On the other side of the coin, I was caught by surprise one day at Paddington when my train's platform was announced 25 minutes before departure. I'd just settled down to eat my lunch expecting to have another 15 minutes to wait. You can't win them all.......

 

[EM2]

I still don't see why they can't let us onto the platform while keeping the train doors locked until they have finished their routines.

I would suspect that they need to move water bowsers and things like that around the platform.

 

[Flamingo]

Train doors are not locked during turnaround at Pad, too many people need to get on and off.

It has already been explained why this happened, in case anybody missed it -

The 1922 to Hereford is formed from the 1859 arrival which was running 8 late and arrived at 1907.

So 8 minutes to clean and label the train before boarding at 1915 doesn't seem too bad to me

 

[WelshBluebird]

At the end of the day it is just one of those things.
It isn't an ideal situation, but the staff do the best that they can under the circumstances.
Sure I grumble about it from time to time aswell, but I personally can't see any other workable solution tbh.

 

[cjp]

FWIW
Tonights 1800 Twyford departure from Paddingtonwas marked as delayed (it was ) then the departure boards gave the platform as 11 but the gates were all closed and the gateline staff argued that the train was not in and the horde that had headed to the gates had to wait until the train arrived.
They finally relented but it was a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand was doing which is inexcusable.
The train arrived a little later and we quickly boarded and so that it left at 1804 no thanks to the gateline staff.

 

[SephenWorceste]

It is awful at London terminus stations. At Euston is there any seating where you could see a departure board and get to any platform in the time they give you? If your train is delayed you can be waiting on the concourse for a long time.

Best wishes, Stephen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tetchytyke]

Something about the layout at Paddington is very claustrophobic, around the display boards and on the concourse generally. I don't find this at Kings Cross or Euston.

Kings Cross is reasonably sedate because there are two main entrances on to the platforms, either via the footbridge or the barriers at the bottom of the station. EC tend to have longer layover times too, which helps.

Euston, though, is an absolute nightmare, especially with the London Midland departures from platforms 8-11. And yeah, it's frustrating when you have the stupid stampede and then the doors aren't even unlocked, presumably because the train in was late and the guard is rightfully taking their full PNB.

 

[Myb]

From your experiences, the current procedures at Paddington and Euston seem to bring some hassle to the passengers.

May I present the way turning trains around is done in Tokyo central station (10 high-speed platforms for ~70k daily passengers) so as to give some improvement suggestions.

20 minutes before departure, the inbound train arrives. The train doors stay open but the cleaning personnel rolls out a "Do not enter" webbing barrier.
One cleaning person per coach cleans the train and turns the seats around.

Meanwhile, as the platform number is already being displayed, passengers start arriving on the platform. Some might sit on the benches, some start queuing in front of their coach along a queue marked on the platform. There might be multiple lines depending on the train type (represented on the screens by either a round, square or triangle symbol).

5-6 minutes before departure, the webbing barriers are released and passengers start boarding. This way the train can depart bang on time with minimum hassle.

 

[joeykins82]

Waiting for the platform number at Paddington Station

 

[stut]

The number of passengers at London stations makes it unfeasible to allow people on board while the train is being prepared, unlike at country terminals like Swansea. I have seen the same thing at Kings Cross (never travelled out of Euston), Marylebone, and Liverpool Street.

I know there's more to train preparation than interior cleaning, but I rather like the Japanese system for this. The platform is announced (and platforms typically have queuing points at different places depending on train type) and the train is present, but a sign along the lines of "cleaning in progress" blocks each door. Once finished, these are removed and people can board pretty swiftly.

No idea if something like this could be done here. People would probably just move the signs and go and sit down anyway...

FCC (not so much EC) at KX do now announce services arriving empty in good time, so that you can board easily. I've seen this with inbound services too, but always feel sorry for the people trying to get off (and the cleaning staff doing their bit).

OTOH, when they pre-announce a departing service for front 4 cars only, when you're arriving on a packed 8-car unit behind a 4-car unit, it does get a little cosy. I particularly enjoy the eejits who stand blocking half the platform, while complaining about how slow it is to empty...

 

[paulravuslante]

May I present the way turning trains around is done in Tokyo central station (10 high-speed platforms for ~70k daily passengers) so as to give some improvement suggestions.

Meanwhile, as the platform number is already being displayed, passengers start arriving on the platform. Some might sit on the benches, some start queuing in front of their coach along a queue marked on the platform. There might be multiple lines depending on the train type (represented on the screens by either a round, square or triangle symbol).

But the train will be boarded by Japanese people who generally keep calm and listen to instructions.

It won't work in this country as there are people from many different backgrounds and we have a 'me first' attitude, where we all want to be first on the train.

At Heathrow, a security check is performed on all arriving trains and announcements are made not to board the train before it even arrives. However there is always someone gagging to get on the train as soon as it arrives, despite repeated announcements!

 

[joeykins82]

I'd disagree; having used the metro in Shanghai and some European cities the British are a model of good behaviour, generally standing aside and allowing people off the train before boarding etc.

 

[trainophile]

One cleaning person per coach cleans the train and turns the seats around.

Wow, so passengers always sit in the direction of travel? What an excellent idea. Do any of our trains have this facility? I suppose it would mean they can't fit so many seats in, so it would be a non-starter.

 

[Ebore]

Wow, so passengers always sit in the direction of travel?

Yep, there's a good video demonstrating turning the seats (and the rest of the cleaning process) here, starting at about 2:25.

 

[Tom B]

I must say I get equally annoyed by trains being announced when they then remain locked or under preparation for the next 10 minutes (or longer). Some services at London Bridge and also Norwich have recently caught my eye with regards to this.

King's Cross have done it a couple of times - the train has been on the board, I've got on, to be confronted by an angry guard who was insistent that the train hadn't been announced yet as it wasn't ready!

 

[Tibbs]

I must say I get equally annoyed by trains being announced when they then remain locked or under preparation for the next 10 minutes (or longer). Some services at London Bridge and also Norwich have recently caught my eye with regards to this.

As others have said, this is a perennial problem at Euston. Given the number of staff that are around platforms 8-11, you'd think they could leave them open so passenders didn't have to wait on the platform, even if the guard wasn't there.

 

[rebmcr]

At Euston is there any seating where you could see a departure board and get to any platform in the time they give you? If your train is delayed you can be waiting on the concourse for a long time.

There is a nice little waiting room with a departures board at the far west of the station, near the P16 ramp entrance. Even if the train is departing from P1, I can't imagine missing it (unless one is in a situation where booked assistance is required anyway).

 

[Taunton]

Paddington and Euston are the worst main line places for this, but Marylebone is worse for late advice of platforms, including on one or two evenings actually sending the train off "on time" according to PPM, without the platform having been announced. This appears to happen with close departures from the same platform, where the second is not shown until the first has departed, even with just a few minutes between them, and if the indicator operator gets distracted the train just gets dispatched.

There does need to be in franchises some stipulation about how long as a minimum, like 10 (I would like 20) minutes for main line services, a train needs to be open at its principal starting point, to avoid the panic that if you don't notice the platform number go up the moment it is shown, and then leg it like mad, you will be left behind.

Worst of all is rail management travelling as passengers using their inside knowledge to have already joined the train and be comfortably seated inside in the best forward-facing window seats while all this is going on.

 

[paulravuslante]

I'd disagree; having used the metro in Shanghai and some European cities the British are a model of good behaviour, generally standing aside and allowing people off the train before boarding etc.

Yeah, that's China though. Not Japan! And I don't know what cities in Britain you travel in but wherever I've travelled in the UK people crowd the door closest to the platform entrance, slowing alighting passengers and then slowly crushing themselves into one part of a carriage.

 

[Squaddie]

Wow, so passengers always sit in the direction of travel? What an excellent idea. Do any of our trains have this facility? I suppose it would mean they can't fit so many seats in, so it would be a non-starter.

And if a group of four passengers joins the train then they can turn one pair of seats to face the other, thereby creating a custom bay for themselves. It's an excellent system.

 

[Taunton]

And if a group of four passengers joins the train then they can turn one pair of seats to face the other, thereby creating a custom bay for themselves. It's an excellent system.

That's how many long-distance trains in the USA have been done for a long time, from the time of the classic streamliners in the 1950s. It was always traditional in the US for such trains to be entirely turned on a triangle at the end of each long run so all the coach seats faced forward, but if the cars are shunted or reformed, the seats can be spun 180 degrees. You can even, if you wish, have them at intermediate positions as well. The centre pivot is unlocked by a foot pedal beneath the seat cushion.

 

[talltim]

Never understood what's wrong with facing backwards

 

[ExRes]

Never understood what's wrong with facing backwards

It's rubbish if you're driving