Paddington stampede

[trainophile]

I expect this has already been done to death, but we have just boarded the 1922 Paddingon to Hereford, and are frankly shocked at the appalling system for platform announcement.

Our train appeared on the board at least half an hour before departure, with no platform info, which was fair enough I suppose. The status Preparing appeared, where it stayed until about 6 minutes before departure, when it changed to Boarding, but still no platform number!

I asked at the desk, to be told platform 4 "but it might change". Just then, with 5 mins to go, 4 popped up on the screen, and a mass of humanity surged for the gates, pushing and shoving to get through while a lone staff member struggled in vain to see everyone's tickets. It was pandemonium and quite unpleasant to be caught up in. Goodness knows how anyone elderly or slow would manage, it was every man for himself.

I boarded coach L at the appropriately marked door for our seat numbers, i.e. the furthest one, only to be caught up in a surge of people who had boarded at the first door they came to and were walking right through the train.

The attitude at Paddington seems to be "not our problem", and I feel sure this could be operated a bit more efficiently by giving a reasonable amount of platform notice. Someone will get hurt one day. It isn't a one-off either, it was the same last time we used this service.

On the positive side, the FGW Lounge was excellent!

 

[ValleyLines142]

They do this all the time at Paddington and it really irritates me.

Trains have been sat for ages, so they should be announcing it way beforehand! Why aren't they?

This train gets exceptionally busy too, especially after the fiasco last Friday on the 1915 to Swansea!

 

[Hyphen]

Unfortunately, as already mentioned, this is sadly the norm at Paddington.

There's often a couple of things you can do to help yourself prepare - you can often use process-of-elimination to work out what's going to be your train. You can see what HSTs are in (assuming it's a HST service!) and rule out anything that's already displaying a platform. Anything that comes in whilst you're waiting you know is unlikely to be going straight back out (unless there's disruption), and you can usually get it down to one or two platforms. If everything's going to plan, RTT can give you an indication of what platform it thinks will be your train, based on the HST diagrams. However, as the person at the desk said - it can (and sometimes does) change. If it differs, I usually prefer to go with my hunch over what RTT says.

With this in mind, I tend to wait by the barriers for the platform I think it is, to try to be ahead of the stampede from the middle of the concourse. If I got it wrong, I'm never in a worse position than everyone else - I just end up joining the mass of people from a different angle. If I got it right, epic win.

The worst thing about Paddington is that they often don't announce the platform until 2/3/4 minutes before the advertised departure, which makes people think they absolutely have to run in order to not miss it. In practice, a late announcement means it'll leave late so the slow/elderly do have a chance.

 

[Flying Snail]

They do this all the time at Paddington and it really irritates me.

Trains have been sat for ages, so they should be announcing it way beforehand! Why aren't they?

They do it for ****s and giggles obviously, nothing funnier than watching 500 passengers legging for a train on a Friday evening. All the staff get their coffees and stand around having a good laugh.

Or maybe it is because the services are exceptionally busy at that time and they cannot turn them all around any quicker.


OP what I would suggest in the future is to go down P1 and wait around the bridge or on the side entrance concourse, once the platform is announced enter by the bridge.

 

[ValleyLines142]

They do it for ****s and giggles obviously, nothing funnier than watching 500 passengers legging for a train on a Friday evening. All the staff get their coffees and stand around having a good laugh.

Or maybe it is because the services are exceptionally busy at that time and they cannot turn them all around any quicker.

Other London terminals do this in exactly the same manner, so there's no reason why Paddington can't.

And some HSTs have almost an hour's turnaround!

 

[Kite159]

When I was at King's Cross last month to catch the Inverness train, the platform only got announced 5 minutes before it was due to depart, cue a mass rush to platform 1.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

It isn't just exclusive to Paddington - Euston is very bad for long-distance departures at times (worst I've known is 10 mins for a peak Glasgow, now that was a stampede!) and Kings Cross can sometimes leave it until literally five mins beforehand for some FCC departures in my experience.

Like Flying Snail says though, there is genuine reason why it is such. Frustrating as it can be at times I'd rather adequate checks were made to the unit / service than get onboard nice and early but for technical / preparatory work to be disrupted.

 

[ModernRailways]

It isn't just exclusive to Paddington - Euston is very bad for long-distance departures at times (worst I've known is 10 mins for a peak Glasgow, now that was a stampede!) and Kings Cross can sometimes leave it until literally five mins beforehand for some FCC departures in my experience.

Like Flying Snail says though, there is genuine reason why it is such. Frustrating as it can be at times I'd rather adequate checks were made to the unit / service than get onboard nice and early but for technical / preparatory work to be disrupted.

FCC is different, as I believe there are some trains which have a small 5 minute turnaround. In one instance, the train arrived and the driver was already waiting at the other end to get in to take it back out 1 minute later fully loaded, I'm guessing the inbound service was delayed though.

Kings Cross certainly seems most efficient, and I always go to the footbridge across the platforms. You can usually see where the train is going by using the train window labels and then if there are more than 1 to your station just wait until it displays, that way you get on first and can get relaxed before the hordes.

Paddington is the worst in my view, even on longer journeys they seem to take an absolute age to do anything and then it's always a mad panic. Is it because it's a lot more commutery (if it wasn't a word it is now ) than Kings Cross? Kings Cross doesn't receive the same type of passenger since a lot of commuters travel to/from Moorgate whereas Paddington has a really quite big commuter belt with a lot more going on the long distance services.

St Pancras is alright, but if there is a problem then they seem to completely collapse on the EMT side.

Euston is only a little better than Paddington, but I'd say Euston is crap because of the poor layout and very cramped passageway to the platforms.

 

[FGWman]

The 1922 to Hereford is formed from the 1859 arrival which was running 8 late and arrived at 1907.

So 8 minutes to clean and label the train before boarding at 1915 doesn't seem too bad to me

 

[Class377]

St Pancras is alright, but if there is a problem then they seem to completely collapse on the EMT side.

On the plus side, EMT only covers 4 platforms and the "waiting area" is within clear view of all 4, so the rush will never be so mad.

I have to say I'm quite surprised at the complaints re: Paddington - it's a station I frequently use (albeit only once or twice a month) but I've never had a problem. I sometimes get a bit anxious when it gets to 15 minutes before departure but that's just me worrying OTT that I can't walk 200 metres in 10 mintes

I tend to use the RTT website to get the platform, which 90% of the time is right (if not, I use Open Train Times to see what it's formed from, and see if that came in to a different platform) but have never considered your suggestion of using the window labels - perhaps they're visible from the footbridge? Every single time I've been in my seat a good 10 minutes before departure, which suggests there's no issue at off-peak times when the majority of long-distance leisure travellers will be using the services.

I was most surprised that Eurostar don't give massive notice either, so there can't be a problem with it!

 

[Llanigraham]

Other London terminals do this in exactly the same manner, so there's no reason why Paddington can't.

And some HSTs have almost an hour's turnaround!

It appears that other people are saying the same thing happens at other London termini.

Do you have any idea of how much may be involved in the turnarounds?

Since you are such an expert in railway timetabling and operation, as this and other threads have proved, I presume you have applied to NR and all the TOC's to offer your expertise?

 

[ValleyLines142]

Since you are such an expert in railway timetabling and operation, as this and other threads have proved, I presume you have applied to NR and all the TOC's to offer your expertise?

Is there really a need? Seriously.

I'm just saying it can be quite a rush when the platform is announced only a few minutes before the train is due to leave - everyone has said this so it's a perfectly valid point! You try getting a 9am train with the platform announced at say 8.55 - believe me you'd be stressed out of your tits!

And I'm quite aware of train turnaround times thank you. But I've noticed that even with trains that arrive on time or even early the platform is still announced rather late.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Waterloo often announce at least the suburban ones before the inbound has entered the station.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Frustrating as it can be at times I'd rather adequate checks were made to the unit / service than get onboard nice and early but for technical / preparatory work to be disrupted.

Same here. A good point.

 

[Llanigraham]

I often have to use Paddington at that time of night on a Friday, and no I do not get stressed by this, I accept that due to the constraints of the railway system it may not be possible to get the information out as soon as some seem to expect it, and therefore make sure I am near the gates so that I can move if necessary. all it takes is a little forward planning.

To suggest, as others have done, that the railway staff do this on purpose is both unwarranted and stupid, but what one has come to expect from certain members of this forum who seem to think that all railway staff are out to get them.

 

[ModernRailways]

I tend to use the RTT website to get the platform, which 90% of the time is right (if not, I use Open Train Times to see what it's formed from, and see if that came in to a different platform) but have never considered your suggestion of using the window labels - perhaps they're visible from the footbridge? Every single time I've been in my seat a good 10 minutes before departure, which suggests there's no issue at off-peak times when the majority of long-distance leisure travellers will be using the services.

I was most surprised that Eurostar don't give massive notice either, so there can't be a problem with it!

The window labels are just about visible, but even if they aren't just standing on the footbridge and looking/listening for the announcement and you will beat everyone else by a good 5 minutes - very useful when you have an open ticket and need to find a seat that isn't reserved.

Eurostar have a very good system in place though. The travelators thin people out and so it's less of a massive stampede, you are then directed to your carriage (on occasion) where a staff member points out your seat and arranges any luggage into the spaces provided making use of all the space! During quiet times Eurostar can be lacking though, I had a full coach to myself in Standard Premier but had nothing as mentioned previously and there seemed to be a lot less staff present - there was a Brussels service boarding too.

 

[Greenback]

I don't think that Eurostar is a useful comparison. It has its own dedicated 'station', far fewer departures per platform and everyone has to check in, go through security and wait for boarding.

If the same system was applied to London terminals then it would be impossible to run the number of services that we do.

I agree with Llanigraham. It is ludicrous to say that staff purposely delay departures so that they can sit about having a laugh. I know some of the staff there, and all they want to do is to get the trains and passengers out on time. The last thing they want is to delay passengers because the resulting complaints make their jobs much harder.

The fact is that delays and other operational problems can impact on turnaround and boarding times. The number of passengers at London stations makes it unfeasible to allow people on board while the train is being prepared, unlike at country terminals like Swansea. I have seen the same thing at Kings Cross (never travelled out of Euston), Marylebone, and Liverpool Street.

It is irritating, but it's part of travelling, unfortunately.

 

[ExRes]

I have to say that I'd much rather have a short notice announcement than the ridiculous system that seems to exist at some terminus stations now of announcing platforms before the inbound has arrived, all this leads to is passengers trying to batter their way onto trains before the arrivals have had the chance to get off, all you get is a suitcases and handbags at dawn scenario and the subsequent likely delay to departure

 

[tsr]

I must say I get equally annoyed by trains being announced when they then remain locked or under preparation for the next 10 minutes (or longer). Some services at London Bridge and also Norwich have recently caught my eye with regards to this.

 

[Class377]

I must say I get equally annoyed by trains being announced when they then remain locked or under preparation for the next 10 minutes (or longer). Some services at London Bridge and also Norwich have recently caught my eye with regards to this.

Not strictly a terminus, but Bristol TM with XC Voyagers bound for Manchester can be just as bad!

 

[DiscoStu]

Euston do it with London Midland trains too.

Every time I'm down there, practically all of the trains have their platform announced except the LM one I'm waiting for. A massive crowd gathers on the concourse, and then you get the mad stamped the second the platform is displayed, only to get down there an find all the doors are locked so you have to stand next to the train for twenty minutes until somebody can be bothered to unlock the doors! ... that bit really annoys me!

 

[Class377]

Makes you wonder how the trains manage at every other station on the network when they only get a minute for everyone to board!

 

[The Planner]

The vast majority of major stations and terminii are platformed as part of the timetable process through the diagrams supplied by the TOCs. However as soon as you hit delays or set swaps or diagram changes that all goes out the window once control gets involved to sort out the real time issues.

 

[bb21]

I do think that at busier times, more could be done to help the trains leave on time.

For example, if a train is only announced 5 minutes before departure, open the bl**dy gates and let people through. I don't know what it achieves by keeping the gates locked and slowing the passenger flow down. At the end FGW are the ones suffering the financial penalties for late running so why not allow passengers through as fast as possible so that the train has a chance at leaving on time? I have noticed this happening quite often and the delays tend to accumulate en route more often than not.

 

[Rail Ranger]

I object to the use of the term "Preparing" (which I've seen at Euston). The train is not "Preparing". It is Being Prepared.

 

[heart-of-wessex]

Something you end up getting used to, but it's something to watch/get caught up in.

I've taken time to get the booked platform from RTT/OTT and board before it's announced, checking the destination card on the window if it's on, often I see a handful of people already on board and ready to go, probably daily commuters who do the same thing.

After sitting down for 10 minutes I hear the announcement for our train, leap to a door and watch the crowd burst up the platform

 

[s3an]

Friday evenings at Paddington are very busy after 19.00 due to the use of super off peak tickets, but I have very rarely not got a seat on the 19.15 to Swansea or the 19.22 to Hereford. You need to know their normal platforms and what the incoming train is to see if it arriving somewhere else.
There will be Plymouth(?) and Bristol trains in until just after 19.00, Oxford trains are shorter, which leaves 2 - Swansea and Hereford, so you can guess which they are even if they are on different platforms and go through the barriers.

The staff will turnaround the 19.15 in about 15 minutes, ready for the mass of people to get on. They have less time for the Hereford train due to the arrival time of the incoming train, but do you really want two train's passengers boarding at the same time on adjacent platforms?

I have always found Paddington staff to be keen to get people on the train and the train off.

sean

 

[GatwickDepress]

Euston's 1960s concourse, though despised by many, has a saving grace in that the ramps to the platforms are wide enough to accommodate plenty of passengers and their luggage. It's still a complete stampede, but a more spread out one than Paddington.

 

[w0033944]

Makes you wonder how the trains manage at every other station on the network when they only get a minute for everyone to board!

Makes me wonder how London Liverpool Street managed in the 1920s on the "Jazz" services without modern technology.

 

[Class83]

It would be better if once arriving passengers had alighted the train, the doors were locked. Departing passengers could then be informed of the platform and encouraged to space themselves out down the platform while the train was cleaned. Then once the train is cleaned the doors can be unlocked with passengers ready to board and no stampede.