Nottingham 'Bus War'

[tbone]

What a choice to have to make though! Trent are one of the worst 'big' operators I have ever experienced, and Yourbus are run by the same people previously behind Dunn Line!

In what way are they the worst? I've traveled in Stagecoach, Arriva and Transdev and I can safely say that they are miles above all of them. People often say that Trent Barton aren't great but please justify such a claim!

 

[tom1649]

The only complaint I have about Trent Barton is that some of their fares are quite high. I'd rather have numbered routes than all these brands, but that's just personal preference.

 

[tbone]

Smaller buses on the X50 on Saturdays is the norm. Wardle's double decker fleet is usually fully utilised on Brittania Stadium services for Stoke City home games, to the extent that they usually have to borrow additional double deckers from other Arriva Midlands garages.



I wouldn't really count the 2-hourly Uttoxeter-Derby section of the X50 as competition with Trent Barton!

As well as competition with Swift froom Uttoxeter it also serves a number of villages also served by Trent Barton's villager. Although I don't think it intends to compete with Trent Barton, perhaps more the train, it still does in parts.

 

[Mugby]

The only complaint I have about Trent Barton is that some of their fares are quite high. I'd rather have numbered routes than all these brands, but that's just personal preference.

I agree. Their fares are extremely high. All that seperate branding and different liveries must be expensive to sustain.
Also, their walk on fares have been hiked up in order to offer a discount to mango card users. They want to encourage cashless travel but they've failed to recognise the unfairness to other passengers.

 

[tbone]

Standard fares are expensive but there are some good value fares:
£5 zigzag, network ticket after 9
£9 zigzag group network ticket for up to 5 people after 9
£30 saver for unlimited 7 day (14 day for a limited time) travel
Also as you mention mango with discounts of up to 35%

 

[tbtc]

The only complaint I have about Trent Barton is that some of their fares are quite high

Depends on what people are comparing. Against busy urban routes like NCT ones then the Trent Barton ones will look expensive.

Against quiet/ longer distance/ rural areas like the old Lincolnshire Road Car, maybe TB don't look so costly.

 

[radamfi]

I agree. Their fares are extremely high. All that seperate branding and different liveries must be expensive to sustain.
Also, their walk on fares have been hiked up in order to offer a discount to mango card users. They want to encourage cashless travel but they've failed to recognise the unfairness to other passengers.

The more people who use Mango the quicker the service should be as boarding times are reduced. So arguably people who use Mango are saving the company money, so should pay less. Pretty much everywhere where smartcards have been introduced (especially outside the UK) hike up cash fares to encourage smartcard use. The UK and Ireland are pretty much unique in having most bus passengers paying the driver in cash. Most other places realise that is undesirable as it is so time consuming.

 

[WillPS]

The cost of handling and banking cash (a long with the necessary insurance) is far higher than the cost of processing an online card transaction, too.

 

[34D]

Incoherent brand strategy, lack of route numbers, both journeys I've done with them have been poorly driven. Need I carry on?

 

[Jordeh]

Incoherent brand strategy, lack of route numbers, both journeys I've done with them have been poorly driven. Need I carry on?

Lack of route numbers is hardly a reason to dislike any bus company (most of their routes have some numbers or letters anyway), they're distinctively branded and industry leading in this respect having won many awards for their branding. It's deemed a good way to make the bus an attractive alternative to driving and given it's success in creating new demand, it's fair to say it works. Given my poor eye sight over distances, it's a lot simpler when standing on Friar Lane to know what bus is coming due to its distinctive colour rather than having to expect the number up close.

Poor driving could occur anywhere (Rarely at TB I find), to base your opinions on a mere two journeys isn't very reflective of the company.

Do continue.

 

[tbone]

Incoherent brand strategy, lack of route numbers, both journeys I've done with them have been poorly driven. Need I carry on?

I think having a big green bus heading towards me with "SWIFT" in bigger letters on the destination screen is much clearer than a number.

As for poor driving, as has been said that happens everywhere, I've travelled a lot with Trent Barton and I have never had a negative experience, whilst I have with other firms with whom I've travelled significantly less.

 

[WillPS]

Incoherent brand strategy, lack of route numbers, both journeys I've done with them have been poorly driven. Need I carry on?

May I suggest you should have invoked their "no quibble money back guarantee"?

 

[MCR247]

Well in other news, NCT will have no Versas left by the end of the year! They have decided that due to the ongoing reliabilty issues with the MAN engines that they are going to be replaced this year!

 

[WillPS]

Crikey! Must be the shortest lived of all their buses since the Alexander Dash bodied Volvo's they had in the 90s (or possibly the pair of Titan's they took on at short notice to take on Nottingham Omnibus with).

 

[MCR247]

Yeah, I mean they're only 5 years old this year! Some omnicitys are 12 this year!

 

[WillPS]

Are they really 5 years old? Crikey!

 

[ARedFlyer]

TB already running scared with ticket deals for the Red Arrow. Bet they wish they hasn't decided to start charging £8 return now robbing gits !

How much are YourBus going to be charging? Can't believe they have nothing on their website as yet!

Skylink prices are going up again shortly. £5 single and £8 return :eek:

I don't care about my bus being pimped. I like them to be warm and comfortable though. The Skylink is neither of the latter.

 

[MCR247]

Are they really 5 years old? Crikey!

Yep, 20 of them, all 08 reg

Still no idea where the 10 enviro 200s are going though :?

 

[WillPS]

TB already running scared with ticket deals for the Red Arrow. Bet they wish they hasn't decided to start charging £8 return now robbing gits !

How much are YourBus going to be charging? Can't believe they have nothing on their website as yet!

Skylink prices are going up again shortly. £5 single and £8 return :eek:

I don't care about my bus being pimped. I like them to be warm and comfortable though. The Skylink is neither of the latter.

Why not invoke the "no quibble money back guarantee"?

 

[34D]

Do continue.

First of all, I'd forgotten Kinch and the Loughborough-East Mids Airport service which I'd travelled on circa 2009 and was satisfied with.

On my trip on the 'Mickleover Blue' (vehicles coloured Gold) a couple of months ago, neither driver routinely kneeled, and I was disappointed/shocked with the lack of consistency on the internal 'next stop' displays.

 

[MCR247]

Gold?! Can't see why the bus would be gold? :?

 

[Lewisham2221]

Gold?! Can't see why the bus would be gold? :?

Or why the driver would need to 'routinely' kneel the bus?

 

[Mugby]

Another complaint I'd make against TB is their refusal to contemplate double deckers under any circumstances, even though many of their services are standing room only.

As for Citylink, it stands or falls by the way it's publicised - and they don't seem to promoting it much at the moment, with less than a week till it's launch.

 

[Lewisham2221]

Another complaint I'd make against TB is their refusal to contemplate double deckers under any circumstances, even though many of their services are standing room only.

As for Citylink, it stands or falls by the way it's publicised - and they don't seem to promoting it much at the moment, with less than a week till it's launch.

I realise that I'm starting to sound like a bit of a TB fanboy now so I'll ease off a bit! But in their defence, TB did contemplate double deckers with the trial of an Enviro 400 on the Swift sometime last year. This was reportedly due to overcrowding problems which were too irregular to combat by providing a duplicate or additional services. Admittedly, nothing seems to have developed from the trial though.

 

[bb21]

Poor driving could occur anywhere (Rarely at TB I find), to base your opinions on a mere two journeys isn't very reflective of the company.

Do continue.

How else is he going to be basing his opinion of the company on? Grantedly it is unrepresentative, however there is nothing to stop him forming an opinion on his two journeys. Indeed for many casual users, one bad experience could put them off for life.

I think having a big green bus heading towards me with "SWIFT" in bigger letters on the destination screen is much clearer than a number.

I beg to differ. To a casual user, what does Swift actually mean? The company name? The route? All-over advertising? The destination blinds are where the route information should go imo and that is something which will not cause confusion.

Of course I am not saying that route-branding is bad, as can be seen by the various awards TB have won. The concept of dedicated drivers, buses and creating a rapport with the regular passengers is all good. I just think they have gone overboard with these gimmicks. In Trent land, it is almost as if routes with route numbers are second-class citizens.

It is also interesting to note that not all operators have flocked to the idea of route identity without numbers.

TB already running scared with ticket deals for the Red Arrow. Bet they wish they hasn't decided to start charging £8 return now robbing gits !

If they are really scared, they could always reduce the £8 return fares.

On my trip on the 'Mickleover Blue' (vehicles coloured Gold)

That is exactly the type of conflicting information which should really be avoided.

Another complaint I'd make against TB is their refusal to contemplate double deckers under any circumstances, even though many of their services are standing room only.

As for Citylink, it stands or falls by the way it's publicised - and they don't seem to promoting it much at the moment, with less than a week till it's launch.

The reason they give is that passengers feel much safer with single-deckers as the driver cannot effectively supervise the upper-deck at all times.

Before you jump to your guns, I am not saying that TB are a bad company and indeed I think they are one of the best bus companies in the land, on a number of fronts. I just do not think that I agree with some aspects of their strategies, but then again I am not the marketing director.

 

[WillPS]

bb21, Trent have managed to deliver way ahead-of-curve growth - there's a reason their route branding strategy is routinely copied!

I've never been on a bus service which has kneeled at every stop - it strikes me that such action would be a considerable waste of time!

 

[bb21]

bb21, Trent have managed to deliver way ahead-of-curve growth - there's a reason their route branding strategy is routinely copied!

I agree that they are doing well, and that there is no denying that route-branding is a good idea in many respects. My point is that route-branding does not need to require the removal of route numbers, and that is not a practice copied by many other operators. There are many reasons why Trent have above-average passenger growths - pleasant drivers, modern vehicles, no other choice, ... It would be interesting to see the breakdown of statistics regarding regular bus users and casual users, existing users and new users, etc, however I suspect that these are not always collected.

Just because they are doing something right does not mean that they are doing everything right. FWT managing director Doug Rose has written quite a few articles in the last year regarding information which confuse our cognitive senses in Buses and over-branding is one of the phenomenon.

For example, if Mickleover buses have red and blue routes, why then are they in a livery comprising mainly of other colours? If I am a casual user told to catch a Mickleover blue (route) bus, is it not empirical that I look out for a blue bus? (Yes, many people would do that.) What is wrong with having Mickleover 1 and 2, or A and B, or 40A and 40B branded "the Mickleover", in which case people will automatically look into the destination displays, where the current route colours are displayed anyway.

 

[tbone]

The 409 saw growth of 44% when it changed to Swift. If you go to Ashbourne and ask someone what Swift is, 99% of people will know, even those that never use the bus. Ask them what the 110 is (it's the Matlock bus) and most won't have a clue. Ashbourne, for example, has all the route numbers between 108 and 113. This can be confusing and Swift is far less so, in my opinion.

 

[CallySleeper]

I beg to differ. To a casual user, what does Swift actually mean? The company name? The route? All-over advertising? The destination blinds are where the route information should go imo and that is something which will not cause confusion.

Just to point out, on electronic destination boards with this facility, they state the destination in addition to the brand name e.g. Red Arrow/Derby, Pronto/Mansfield. So this information is not omitted. While route branding works for TB, I would argue that it would be unfeasible for many other companies (eg NCT) hence why you don't see it used. Not all TB routes have name brands.

Also, TB do collate a lot of information from users and potential users in surveys. An email to them will probably reveal information for example that in tbone's previous post. The pronto also saw a double-figure increase in custom following on from a relaunch and timetable frequency improvement three/four years ago, which will hopefully reoccur again at this year's relaunch.

I just think they have gone overboard with these gimmicks.

Define "gimmicks" please.

 

[tbtc]

Why do people have such strong opinion about TB's branded routes etc when I rarely hear a bad word said about Go Ahead's "brands"?