Nottingham 'Bus War'

[bb21]

The 409 saw growth of 44% when it changed to Swift. If you go to Ashbourne and ask someone what Swift is, 99% of people will know, even those that never use the bus. Ask them what the 110 is (it's the Matlock bus) and most won't have a clue. Ashbourne, for example, has all the route numbers between 108 and 113. This can be confusing and Swift is far less so, in my opinion.

It might have seen huge growth, but do we know how much is down to better buses, how much is down to route branding, how much is down to improved timetable, how much is down to better efforts at marketing, ...?

Just to point out, on electronic destination boards with this facility, they state the destination in addition to the brand name e.g. Red Arrow/Derby, Pronto/Mansfield. So this information is not omitted. While route branding works for TB, I would argue that it would be unfeasible for many other companies (eg NCT) hence why you don't see it used.

What about those buses without route name displays, for example, Indigo, Skylink, ...?

Not all TB routes have name brands.

That's true, and as I mentioned before, they are almost second-class citizens compared to named routes.

Define "gimmicks" please.

Route branding with conflicting information. I agree that some might have worked, and that is to be commended. Could they have worked better? No one will know. Route-branding is a gimmick. It might have been a good gimmick in some cases, but it still is a gimmick.

Why do people have such strong opinion about TB's branded routes etc when I rarely hear a bad word said about Go Ahead's "brands"?

Because TB have a much higher profile hence will be much better known amongst others. I too have very strong feelings towards the network revision in Poole and Salisbury, but they are hardly of interest on here.

I cannot comment on anything I don't know much about so you will unlikely see me making remarks on Go North East's routes, for example.

You don't have to agree with me. I am not out to persuade anyone.

 

[WillPS]

bb21 - I agree with you that having a letter/number of some sort is sensible (e.g. A B and C, as on The Threes). Not having anything other than a destination isn't as helpful to regulars on the branches as just having such an indicator.

 

[CallySleeper]

What about those buses without route name displays

Destination only. However, I know what route it falls under because it will additionally have the route number (next to the destination as convention) or the brand name on the coloured frontal livery. There are a number of examples of this.

That's true, and as I mentioned before, they are almost second-class citizens compared to named routes.

Is that a problem though? Not all routes have the same profile. You can't compare the RA to the 141, for example. One is a core, high frequency, high profile service, the other isn't. Customers on the 90 or 141 for example may be more grateful for example that their service is there and does offer the ability to travel within the local community, rather than its perceived status on what are rural, low key routes.

 

[bb21]

Is that a problem though? Not all routes have the same profile. You can't compare the RA to the 141, for example. One is a core, high frequency, high profile service, the other isn't. Customers on the 90 or 141 for example may be more grateful for example that their service is there and does offer the ability to travel within the local community, rather than its perceived status on what are rural, low key routes.

Not necessarily a problem per se, but that is the impression it will give.

I think we can agree that Trent is a company that tries very hard and has had a lot of success, which I am not criticising them for. I have an opinion on certain aspects of their operation which could be improved on, which some of you don't agree with, which is perfectly fine, as I don't expect you all to agree with me, or it would be so boring.

(Although I do have the backing of some industry experts with what I am saying, so I am happy that I am not mad or alone in thinking this. Then you will probably have the backing of some other industry experts so fair enough. There is simply no right answer, as it won't be verifiable anyway.)

 

[ALIEN14247]

As someone has asked.....
NCT Enviro 200's will be placed on Network Purple routes.

 

[tbone]

Trent Barton are putting two of the former TM travel freebee Plaxton Centros on the Skylink shorts. They're still in SYPTE livery with vinyls added on.

 

[WillPS]

Any pictures!?

 

[MCR247]

As someone has asked.....
NCT Enviro 200's will be placed on Network Purple routes.

Thank you do you know where the displaced solo SRs are going?

 

[tbone]

Any pictures!?

If that's aimed at me, head over to the Indigo Facebook page

 

[ALIEN14247]

Some of the displaced NCT Solo SR's will go onto the Network Navy routes.
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Of course if we were looking for a juicy bit of gossip, we could talk about Yourbus closing a depot!

 

[34D]

Or why the driver would need to 'routinely' kneel the bus?

To help with access. In many other firms, this has been guidance since the mid 1990s.

 

[Lewisham2221]

To help with access. In many other firms, this has been guidance since the mid 1990s.

Can't say I've ever been on a bus that's been lowered at every stop. It wasn't in my training either, although I'll happily lower on request or if I think it will be beneficial.

 

[tbone]

Of course if we were looking for a juicy bit of gossip, we could talk about Yourbus closing a depot!

Tuxford? I've heard this too, not sure how true it is, or whether the routes will be given up or will run from Heanor, if the latter there will be a lot of dead mileage!

 

[Mugby]

Well the new Yourbus Citylink service starts tomorrow and no mention of it on the Yourbus website, no mention of it on their facebook page.

You would have thought that they would have made an attempt to give it some advance publicity.
Perhaps they should have called it 'The Secret Service'

 

[trentside]

Well, they've finally updated their website to mention the Citylink... on the launch day.

I've also heard that Tuxford is closing, from a Yourbus employee - though I'd await official confirmation being commenting further, I'd expect this will come from the Nottinghamshire County Council website as their services in the area are all tendered. Such a move strikes of the former Dunn-Line, sweep in and takeover then chuck in the towel because you bid too low to force the local independents out...

 

[Deerfold]

Well the new Yourbus Citylink service starts tomorrow and no mention of it on the Yourbus website, no mention of it on their facebook page.

You would have thought that they would have made an attempt to give it some advance publicity.
Perhaps they should have called it 'The Secret Service'

I thought they were a bit late with that - had a look on Saturday and thought "oh, must still be a while off launching".

 

[ARedFlyer]

Prices are here:-

http://www.gocitylink.com/

£4 standard (£3.20 with Genie their Mango equivalent)
£6 return!

Group return after 9am (upto 5 people) £8 - WOW !

Weekly unlimited ticket - £20 (£10 cheaper than TB)

Free Wi-Fi!


TB going to lose a lot of custom here. It's a no brainier which is the better option for Nottingham>Derby now!

 

[bb21]

TB going to lose a lot of custom here. It's a no brainier which is the better option for Nottingham>Derby now!

Depends on whether one requires onward travel in either city.

 

[Lewisham2221]

A no brainer if you live in Nottingham city centre and work/study in Derby city centre, or vice versa, perhaps. If your journey actually begins/ends with a bus to/from Derby/Nottingham to elsewhere then it depends. If the other bus you catch is TB it makes more sense to catch Red Arrow.

 

[Deerfold]

Prices are here:-

http://www.gocitylink.com/

£4 standard (£3.20 with Genie their Mango equivalent)
£6 return!

Group return after 9am (upto 5 people) £8 - WOW !

Weekly unlimited ticket - £20 (£10 cheaper than TB)

Free Wi-Fi!


TB going to lose a lot of custom here. It's a no brainier which is the better option for Nottingham>Derby now!

You really do assume anyone that's not TB must be wonderful, don't you?

If they can provide what they promise and promote it well then it could do well. It'll be interesting to watch.

In common with TB they seem to have some very optimistic timings in the peaks. Does it really take no longer at 8am than at 2am?

They also seem to have a couple of magic buses in the timetable that travel between QMC and Derby in no time at all.

 

[WillPS]

I think that's a very compelling offer. Is it sustainable, or is this an intended loss leader, aimed at marginalising Red Arrow?

 

[MCR247]

£5 for a child network ticket?! Its only £2.50 for a child zigzag?

 

[tbone]

The fares are actually very comparable with those of Trent Barton, as soon as you include a connecting Trent Barton bus (which many people do) then Trent Barton becomes cheaper. Connections from other Yourbus services do exist but aren't as attractive as Trent Barton's offerings.

 

[MCR247]

Those prices are expensive for children!
genie child single: 2.40
mango child single: 1.80 (iirc)

I'm guessing this is because yourbus don't give child tickets 50% discount, as IIRC trent barton do?

 

[Mugby]

The times on the Citylink web page are completely different to those which are shown on Derbyshire County Council's transport site, which I quoted in a previous post.

I note that Derby - Nottingham now has 35 minutes, Nottm - Derby has 30 minutes!

 

[tbone]

That's right, Trent have a 50% child policy.

As for the timings, obviously as long as they leave Victoria and the QMC as per timetable it doesn't matter if they're late into Derby I don't think so it seems they've doctored the timetable a little, perhaps in responce to Trent's claim that red arrow is 'the fastest' way between the two.

Anyone who connects from a Trent Barton service onto red arrow will stay, it's the cheaper option. Citylink may get some passengers transferring from Arriva and NCT but not masses. Then there's those that'll stick to red arrow because it's what they know and there'll be those that will prefer coach comfort. Citylink will struggle in my opinion.

 

[WillPS]

I'm not so sure that Citylink will die on it's back side so quickly as you suggest. Certainly I've not seen much evidence of people connecting with other Trent buses; those that I know who use it regularly work in Derby city centre and connect 'in' using an NCT service.

Regarding the "coach comfort" thing - this isn't a Premiere style operation with a motley collection of mid life buses, these are brand new buses with semi-coach seating. There are people (myself included) who much prefer the open feeling of a bus to a 'proper' coach.

Ultimately, it's a journey of less than 45 minutes end-to-end, "coach comfort" is superfluous.

 

[Deerfold]

As for the timings, obviously as long as they leave Victoria and the QMC as per timetable it doesn't matter if they're late into Derby

Unless of course people want to be in Derby for a particular time in which case they'll be irritated.

 

[tbone]

Unless of course people want to be in Derby for a particular time in which case they'll be irritated.

Of course, and promising journey times that aren't achievable isn't a very good way of making customers happy!
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There's an interesting write up on the two services on the focus transport blog here:

http://www.focustransport.org.uk/gclink1.aspx

 

[WillPS]

Not surprising to see the incumbent doing better on day one, especially with such lackluster build up.