tom1649
Member
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- 5 Jul 2010
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- 989
Sounds like a risky name for an operator. Anyone tried to sue them for being late yet?
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Nottingham 'Bus War'
- Thread starter trentside
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Sounds like a risky name for an operator. Anyone tried to sue them for being late yet?
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WillPS
Established Member
That's rubbish. Most successful businesses slowly build a core operational base and then expand organically. Rapid expansion is very very risky.
The issue I presented is that you can't really start small when competing against the likes of NCT and the easyrider product.
I'm not sure that's the case at all. Trent have done an excellent job creating a network which has converted people [back] to buses. Their fleet is always very well presented and their marketing efforts are stellar. This all comes at a cost, and Trent charge the upper end by comparison to similar regional routes nationwide. I'm not saying this is unfair or that I disagree with it (having had to rely on a shockingly poor regional service in Scunthorpe I can honestly say I'd gladly spend an extra 50p a time for a better service), I'm saying that it does create an opportunity.
Now here's where Premiere went wrong - they tried to pretend they were something they were not. Even the name 'Premiere' was exactly what the service was not - it wasn't the 1st, it wasn't the most luxurious, it wasn't as nice looking. Their entire marketing strategy was frankly a load of arse. The 'brand manager' guy frankly didn't know what he was doing (lets not even go in to their massively underwhelming Twitter/Facebook).
Forget about route branding - waste of time and money and makes things operationally far more complex than they need be! Route branding is an art - done properly it costs a lot but converts car owners; done badly it just looks stupid.
They should have embraced their bargain status - they should have left all their buses white, with vinyls applied as the only method of branding. They should have taken a name which embodied what they were - something like 'zero fuss bus' or 'go cheaper'. Their marketing should have been simple and functional, taking queues from value supermarket ranges. The no-frills approach should have been explained and exploited, not ignored.
Oh, and even if you are branding your buses this way, you are still looking after a brand. Some of the buses (notably the ex-First Solos) were in a terrible state when they arrived, and by my last ride on one the other week were appalling. Uncomfortable even for my 7 minute ride. People wont be loyal to a product of low quality, regardless of price.
The only good thing that came from Premiere was the 'Fair Fares' branding - but in my opinion it was all too little (or too much?) too late. The rest was at best very, very amateurish, not to mention inconsistent and poorly positioned.
Lewisham2221
Established Member
Purchasing the remains of Veolia can't have helped them much!
WillPS
Established Member
I dunno. The whole Veolia thing was a bit strange, they took on Dunn Line, who had long bubbled just beneath the radar, with only a couple of attempts at commercial routes. Then they deleted the Dunn Line name, and basically deleted everything the company had become esteemed for.
They pretty much established themselves as the go-to bus company for Notts CC in the process, and that work must surely have been profitable?
They pretty much established themselves as the go-to bus company for Notts CC in the process, and that work must surely have been profitable?
Lewisham2221
Established Member
The amount of work that Veolia wass winning from local authorities would suggest that they were putting in very competitive (low!) bids. That's all well and good if revenue/useage estimates are accurate. If they're not, or if patronage falls, then you start to get problems. Increased fuel, insurance, wages, other costs etc. can also have a big impact on the profitability of contract work - you can't always negotiate the best mid-contract price change. Veolia's fairly short spell in the UK bus market suggests that their business model wasn't as successful as they'd hoped.
RJ
Established Member
Fair point - I suppose I'm more used to Londo
tbone
Member
Trent Barton have part replaced the Red1 service with their own Route 101:
https://www.trentbarton.co.uk/services/241
Yourbus are running the Uni Hopper buses using buses hired in from Black Diamond. The Citaros heading for citylink will replace these soon before the branded buses will in turn replace these, once released by the administrators.
https://www.trentbarton.co.uk/services/241
Yourbus are running the Uni Hopper buses using buses hired in from Black Diamond. The Citaros heading for citylink will replace these soon before the branded buses will in turn replace these, once released by the administrators.
They've also replaced the Red 5 but it's operating under the skylink brand? Totally different service/timetable confusing or what! Why are they treading on their own toes running with these replacement journeys? To prevent others muscling in? They don't need to really do they? It's always nice not be be on a jammed pack bus though.
mainframe444
Member
One thing that Trent admitted is that overall there were more people travelling between Radcliffe and long eaton into Nottingham as a result of premieres competition.
There are more passengers out there than Trents existing services can cope with, and they don't want to lose them, hence the extras.
Although some Premiere services were busy, the fares were too low.....
B
I like how you described the route as "innovative" when it was under Premiere and now it's somewhat being run by Trent Barton with presumably better buses, all it faces now is mostly criticism from yourself.
I would guess that passengers who have been using the Premiere Red 8 service to and from the large housing estates to the west of Hucknall have really missed their through services to and from the city today. I don't know how busy they were off peak during the day but certainly the service that left Hucknall just before 8am each morning was always quite full as I would think most other peak time services were.
Trent Barton stopped running these services years ago and I know that many people have appreciated having them back in recent months. As much as I think Trent Barton are on the whole a good company, they have been very determined in recent years that people from West Hucknall will have to use their Connect Buses and change onto the Three's or Tram in Hucknall which can be very time consuming if you just miss a connecting service.
Trent Barton stopped running these services years ago and I know that many people have appreciated having them back in recent months. As much as I think Trent Barton are on the whole a good company, they have been very determined in recent years that people from West Hucknall will have to use their Connect Buses and change onto the Three's or Tram in Hucknall which can be very time consuming if you just miss a connecting service.
Lewisham2221
Established Member
As said above, the competition from Premiere almost certainly increased bus useage on the Radcliffe and Long Eaton routes, hence now, without Premiere, TB need to provide extra buses to cope with the passenger numbers.
Why are he extra Long Eaton buses running as Skylink? A couple of possible reasons. They could simply fit more efficiently into an amended schedule for Skylink buses than they would into say, the Indigo schedule or running them as a standalone service. They'd probably also be expected to provide buses to the same spec as the existing Indigo buses if they were to be operated as part of the Indigo brand.
If anything, I'm probably more surprised that the extra buses, and the 9 have been picked up under the Trentbarton and Kinchbus banners, rather than Notts & Derby. That's probably down to N&D being based at Derby garage though.
Why are he extra Long Eaton buses running as Skylink? A couple of possible reasons. They could simply fit more efficiently into an amended schedule for Skylink buses than they would into say, the Indigo schedule or running them as a standalone service. They'd probably also be expected to provide buses to the same spec as the existing Indigo buses if they were to be operated as part of the Indigo brand.
If anything, I'm probably more surprised that the extra buses, and the 9 have been picked up under the Trentbarton and Kinchbus banners, rather than Notts & Derby. That's probably down to N&D being based at Derby garage though.
I wasn't criticizing just questioning their business logic. I mean the current Skylink is very rarely full. Whilst I appreciate it's short notice, running a separate Long Eaton bus under the brand "Skylink" is just silly and confusing. I guess though they'll rebrand that route if they keep it.
Harbon 1
Member
Why is it illogical running a presumably empty extra bus off a route that is rarely full?
CallySleeper
Established Member
I imagine that the new 101 journeys and fast buses to Long Eaton will probably be absorbed at some point soon into current indigo/skylink or RL routes, to tidy and streamline things a bit more. I expect the present situation is just temporary/short notice after the death on Friday. SL should always be fast to Long Eaton IMO.
tbtc
Veteran Member
I guess it's there to stop some cowboy coming along...
tbone
Member
It's a temporary measure, they will be skylink duplicated until the 26th March when the 56 day notice period expires, after this they will be Long Eaton Xprss. The two buses on there today are just showing "Long Eaton fast" on the destination displays and make no reference to Skylink.
WillPS
Established Member
It's amazing what a big operator can quickly pull out of their pocket to fill a gap. How long before, say, Connect becomes one direction only again?
In fact, I wonder if NCT might venture out to Hucknall again now they've lost the tram? That would really create friction between Trent and NCT - and I suspect would be a lot more successful than Red 8.
In fact, I wonder if NCT might venture out to Hucknall again now they've lost the tram? That would really create friction between Trent and NCT - and I suspect would be a lot more successful than Red 8.
I think the the old NCT 70 to Hucknall was always a council subsidised service.
tbone
Member
They wouldn't dare! It would be catastrophic for both sides if NCT and Trent Barton waged war against each other.
As for Hucknall, given the fact that Red8 was quite popular, quite a few people are callin for the return of the Hucknall flyer.
I know Trent Barton are considered by many to be a very good company but they are not over popular with lots of people in Hucknall. The fact that they withdrew all direct buses from the Hucknall Estates to Nottingham and then reduced the frequency of the Connect service did not go down well. I'm sure they wouldn't dare make the Connect route one direction again now Premiere have pulled out!
I also don't really know what Trent Barton are trying to achieve with the high fares from Hucknall @ £2.20 single or £4.30 return to from Hucknall to Nottingham. The tram is only £3.50 for a Day Ticket and it's only £3.20 return from Hucknall to Nottingham on the train!
WillPS
Established Member
As I see it, Trent can only loose. The corridors they compete on are:
Calverton
Arnold
West Bridgford
Beeston
Trent have the upper hand in Calverton (although NCT could change that by including it in their easyrider product), but I doubt passengers in Arnold, Bridgford or Beeston would be at all responsive to an increase in Trent services.
All academic, of course.
Jordy
Established Member
This from Twitter
I was waiting for a bus in the city centre last night and saw this Trent Barton '101', I had no idea what it was and neither did anyone else by the looks of it - it was fairly empty compared to the Radcliffe Line which showed up shortly afterwards, that was literally jam packed and some people were left behind! Admittedly the RTC in the city centre probably didn't help but it's clear that this 101 is much needed.
Looks like the Shoplink is up and running again as well, just seen an ex Premiere Enviro (branded for one of the 'Red' routes, didn't catch which one) go past my house on the S2!
I was waiting for a bus in the city centre last night and saw this Trent Barton '101', I had no idea what it was and neither did anyone else by the looks of it - it was fairly empty compared to the Radcliffe Line which showed up shortly afterwards, that was literally jam packed and some people were left behind! Admittedly the RTC in the city centre probably didn't help but it's clear that this 101 is much needed.
Looks like the Shoplink is up and running again as well, just seen an ex Premiere Enviro (branded for one of the 'Red' routes, didn't catch which one) go past my house on the S2!
tbone
Member
Trent Barton typically run long distance routes that enter the city boundaries and then go along NCT corridors, the ones you mentioned above but also the likes of Wollaton, Mansfield Road etc. Trent Barton could also up the pressure in Ruddington and Clifton which they both serve. I just can't see it happening anytime soon, though perhaps the handover of NET and Skylink might have raised tensions.
According to the County Council website, Silverdale Tours have taken over the Shoplink routes.
Jordy
Established Member
Interesting. It's a Red1 branded Enviro 300 (seen again on the S1!).
tbone
Member
Trent Barton have announced this afternoon a new "Trentbarton land" saver. It is available on all trent barton buses apart from Pronto. It will cost:
£30 for 7 days
£95 for 28 days
£270 for three months
£520 for 6 months
£950 for 12 months.
The weekly price is the same as the current Red Arrow weekly ticket but allows travel on connecting routes, no doubt this has been introduced in preparation for the launch of Citylink
£30 for 7 days
£95 for 28 days
£270 for three months
£520 for 6 months
£950 for 12 months.
The weekly price is the same as the current Red Arrow weekly ticket but allows travel on connecting routes, no doubt this has been introduced in preparation for the launch of Citylink
MCR247
Established Member
- Joined
- 7 Nov 2008
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- 10,290
Makes sense, since an exRed1 enviro 300 was working a silverdale operated school contract today
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