Nottingham 'Bus War'

[Jordy]

Presumably the same one I saw on the Shoplink! There's been a Sharpes coach going back and forth past my house on the 50 all day - it then reappeared later on its usual school run so it looks like there's possibly quite a bit of interworking.

 

[Deerfold]

Trent Barton have announced this afternoon a new "Trentbarton land" saver. It is available on all trent barton buses apart from Pronto. It will cost:
£30 for 7 days
£95 for 28 days
£270 for three months
£520 for 6 months
£950 for 12 months.

The weekly price is the same as the current Red Arrow weekly ticket but allows travel on connecting routes, no doubt this has been introduced in preparation for the launch of Citylink

Now *that* is something TB have been missing. Not so sure about the naem though - sounds like it's for a theme park.

 

[CallySleeper]

Now *that* is something TB have been missing. Not so sure about the naem though - sounds like it's for a theme park.

Tweet #trentbartonland or #reallygoodteam and you'll find that both phrases have been used in communication for quite a while now. So it's no surprise they have decided to use it for this unlimited saver product (with the exception of the damn elephant in the corner!!)

Question is, will a scaled down version (i.e. saver in its current form) be available still or will main routes have a weekly ticket + mango.

 

[Deerfold]

Tweet #trentbartonland or #reallygoodteam and you'll find that both phrases have been used in communication for quite a while now. So it's no surprise they have decided to use it for this unlimited saver product (with the exception of the damn elephant in the corner!!)

Question is, will a scaled down version (i.e. saver in its current form) be available still or will main routes have a weekly ticket + mango.

The comment on their website states that Nottingham saver tickets are unaffected.

 

[Jordy]

Kinchbus have now branded the couple of Excels that are running the 9.

 

[ashworth]

£4.30 return to Hucknall? Disgrace !!

It gets worse if you travel from villages on the outskirts of Hucknall! The fare of £4.30 return from Hucknall to Nottingham rises to £5.90 return once you stray more than a mile out of Hucknall on the 141 service in the Linby and Papplewick area! I live in Linby and I have not used the Trent Barton 141 bus for well over 10 years now. I just do the 20 minute walk to Hucknall station and use the train at £3.20 return - a saving of £2.70.
Even the short ride from Linby into Hucknall is £3.70 return and from Papplewick into Hucknall it's £4.90 return. Just travelling the half mile between the two neighbouring villages is £2.90 return. No wonder the buses travel through the village almost empty except for those travelling on concessionary tickets.

I agree that Trent Barton are a good reliable company but I don't use them because I refuse to pay those prices for journeys that are within easy walking distance.

Everyone is now saying that the 7 Day Saver Ticket is good value at £30.
It probably is in comparison to Trent Barton's regular prices but it doesn't compare very well with similar tickets in other parts of the country.
I have friends in Lancashire and regular make use of weekly tickets up there. The one's I use, which all cover much larger areas than Trent Barton, are:

Stagecoach North West Mega Rider 7 Day Gold @ £25
This covers all Stagecoach buses in Lancashire, Merseyside, Cumbria (including all the tourist routes in the Lake District) and extensions across to Newcastle from Carlisle and into Scotland to Dumfries all for £25.

Transdev 7 Day Silver @ £19.80
Covering large areas of Lancashire and into West and North Yorkshire including Preston, Clitheroe, Blackburn, Burnley, Bury, Skipton, Keighley etc.

Arriva North West and Wales Weekly Saver @ £18
Covers all Arriva services in South Lancashire, Merseyside, Greater Manchester, Cheshire, North wales Coast and other areas of North Wales.


I'm sure similar weekly tickets priced at around £20 must be available all over the country. Is £30 therefore that good in comparison?

 

[WillPS]

I don't think there's any arguing that the fare there is high, but frankly the 141 is a great service - I understand most of it runs on a commercial basis, and all power to Trent for being able to run such a service on that basis.

 

[bb21]

These season ticket prices are very high compared to other areas, however I understand that they cannot drop below £30 for the weekly version as that would otherwise undercut the Red Arrow fares.

Compare those prices to nearby Arriva Midlands, the All-Zones version costs £25 per week (as opposed to TB's £30) or £55 (£49.50 online or as m-ticket) for four weeks (TB £95). Annual pass is £590 as opposed to TB's £950.

Arriva Midlands covers an area extending from Melton Mowbray to Wrexham, so much bigger. Even though I might be getting a better service, I don't think I would be happy paying 60% to 70% more for it.

 

[ashworth]

I don't think there's any arguing that the fare there is high, but frankly the 141 is a great service - I understand most of it runs on a commercial basis, and all power to Trent for being able to run such a service on that basis.

I totally agree that the villages on the 141 route do get a great service of an hourly bus service to Nottingham or Mansfield throughout the day Monday to Saturday.
However, as good as it might be, even though it runs right past my house, I will not use on principle that they charge more for the the 8 mile journey into Nottingham than it costs for journeys on other routes of much greater distance such as Nottingham to Derby or Nottingham to Mansfield.

Also the very local fares from Linby and Papplewick into Hucknall are way higher than fares from other comparable distances into Hucknall. For example the fare from Westville to Hucknall on the Amberline route is only £3.20 return and that is on a very similar type of route to the 141. Also the fare from Newstead into Hucknall, which is a longer distance than from Papplewick is only £3.40 return compared to £5.90 from Papplewick.

I know it's a rural route and Trent Barton run a very good and reliable service but I know that most paying passengers now walk into Hucknall whenever they can, and leave the bus to those with concessionary cards.

 

[CallySleeper]

ashworth & bb21,

While 7 days is £30, 6 or 12 month passes cost the equivalent of £20 or less a week. 3 months are £22.50/week. I'd say that £20 was pretty good value all things considered, especially if getting two or more buses. May even find this year that as NET incorporates the init ticket system, mango and saver are also accepted here too.

 

[WillPS]

I think Mango is much more of a possibility than Saver. Trent only have a relatively small share in NET remember, unlike NCT who had 50% (and their shareholder Transdev held the other 50%).

With Mango they can just pay the revenue from Tram usage in to the NET consortium.

 

[tbone]

It appears that yet another bus war may be coming to a halt; there's talk that Trent Barton and Stagecoach have 'kissed and made up' and have agreed to run the pronto together again, offering a frequency of every 10 minutes between Nottingham and Mansfield as opposed to the current 15. This will happen from the 31st March.

 

[Deerfold]

It appears that yet another bus war may be coming to a halt; there's talk that Trent Barton and Stagecoach have 'kissed and made up' and have agreed to run the pronto together again, offering a frequency of every 10 minutes between Nottingham and Mansfield as opposed to the current 15. This will happen from the 31st March.

Any idea if that will involve TB having a lower percentage involvement than historically to "make up" for the 3s?

 

[Mugby]

It appears that yet another bus war may be coming to a halt; there's talk that Trent Barton and Stagecoach have 'kissed and made up' and have agreed to run the pronto together again, offering a frequency of every 10 minutes between Nottingham and Mansfield as opposed to the current 15. This will happen from the 31st March.

That's interesting. It will give two more departures per hour and the new Yourbus Citylink will create six more per hour from Victoria.
The timings of Citylink between Derby and Nottingham are interspaced with those of Red Arrow (i.e. meaning every 5 minutes) whereas from Nottingham to Derby they are at the same time as Red Arrow.

 

[tbone]

Any idea if that will involve TB having a lower percentage involvement than historically to "make up" for the 3s?

Don't know for sure but I'd imagine that the current fleets (original trent barton + original stagecoach + more recent stagecoach) may contain enough vehicles to allow for the increased frequency. If not I have no idea where Trent Barton would get any extra vehicles from as they're already a bit short due to stepping in for Premiere!

 

[WillPS]

That's interesting. It will give two more departures per hour and the new Yourbus Citylink will create six more per hour from Victoria.
The timings of Citylink between Derby and Nottingham are interspaced with those of Red Arrow (i.e. meaning every 5 minutes) whereas from Nottingham to Derby they are at the same time as Red Arrow.

Does that allow for a lower PVR? Red Arrow does seem to spend quite a long time in-bay at Victoria Bus Station; and of course loading and unloading is much faster with a bus than a coach.

 

[MCR247]

Well they're often late at Derby

 

[Mugby]

Difficult to say what the PVR wiil be. The Citylink timetable appears to give a 5 minute layover at each end which would perhaps be very tight in practice. However, the Citylink running time is 40 minutes whereas for the Red Arrow, it's 30 minutes, although this is mostly unachievable at peak times.

Apparently, bays have been allocated for Citylink at both Derby and Nottingham. Unless there is to be a complete reallocation at Victoria, Citylink will be at a disadvantage if it is pushed to the top end. Also, as departures will be simultaneous with Red Arrow, whichever gets away first will have the advantage at the Upper Parliament Street stop.
Similarly, Citylink will be at a disadvantage if it has been given a bay at the far end of Derby Bus Station.

 

[Deerfold]

Also, as departures will be simultaneous with Red Arrow, whichever gets away first will have the advantage at the Upper Parliament Street stop.
Similarly, Citylink will be at a disadvantage if it has been given a bay at the far end of Derby Bus Station.

So looks like promoting their single operator passes will be very important.

 

[tbone]

Citylink will use what is currently the Sherwood Arrow bay in Victoria and what is currently the Transpeak bay at Derby bus station.

 

[MCR247]

The silverdale exPremiere E300 has had all of its Red1 etc branding removed, and has had a clean! Probably a first for it tbh, I almost didn't recognise it as the same bus

 

[WillPS]

So looks like promoting their single operator passes will be very important.

Definitely; Trent have certainly tightened things up by effectively throwing in free travel on all Trent services to Red Arrow weekly customers. If somebody travels from, say, Carrington every day, they now have all the travel they need included.

I think having a person in-situation at both Nottingham and Derby to 'guide people' to the Citylink might be an idea; not sure how doable that is though.

 

[Mugby]

I think having a person in-situation at both Nottingham and Derby to 'guide people' to the Citylink might be an idea; not sure how doable that is though.

I dont see why not.
If they want it to be a success, they must do everything possible to make it so.

 

[WillPS]

According to BMB15 on Flickr apparently from next week the 47 is extended out to Epperstone, Lowdham and Gunthorpe to cover one of the Nottsbus routes Premiere previously operated during the day, with evening services renumbered 47B and terminating at Woodborough. Bad news for anybody who used to make journeys between Woodborough and Calverton in the evening I suppose.

The 47A becomes the 46, and is cut back to Arnold. Is this the exact same route the c.2002 46 ran?

In any case - it appears NCT have backed off from trying to compete with the Calverton Connection. The old boys agreement back in place?

 

[trentside]

The 47B is continuing onto Calverton.

NCT have published a timetable for the revised services here.

 

[WillPS]

The 47B is continuing onto Calverton.

NCT have published a timetable for the revised services here.

Ahhah. Still - not venturing in to Calverton as much as they could. I suspect that's an unwillingness to compete with Trent, more than anything. Still, people do have a choice now, and life will probably be more affordable for people who live in Calverton and make cross-city journeys, so that's positive.

 

[tbone]

Some of the Citylink citaros have now been branded for the service. The font they've used isn't that dissimilar to the 'trademarker' font used by Trent Barton on most of their services including Red Arrow

The advert war has now began, in Derby bus station there are some advertising panels on the floor, one of which promotes citylink. Trent Barton have a rather more prominent advert on the wall suggesting that Red Arrow is the quickest and most comfortable way to Nottingham.

Another route that competes in part with Trent Barton is Wardle's X50. Normally operated by deckers, this was utilsing an MPD on Saturday. The general message seems to be that competing with Trent Barton isn't a good idea!

 

[Qwerty133]

Wardle are arriva so a MPD suggests a breakdown (as they only keep inadequate busses as spares)

 

[Lewisham2221]

Wardle are arriva so a MPD suggests a breakdown (as they only keep inadequate busses as spares)

Smaller buses on the X50 on Saturdays is the norm. Wardle's double decker fleet is usually fully utilised on Brittania Stadium services for Stoke City home games, to the extent that they usually have to borrow additional double deckers from other Arriva Midlands garages.

Another route that competes in part with Trent Barton is Wardle's X50. Normally operated by deckers, this was utilsing an MPD on Saturday. The general message seems to be that competing with Trent Barton isn't a good idea!

I wouldn't really count the 2-hourly Uttoxeter-Derby section of the X50 as competition with Trent Barton!

 

[34D]

What a choice to have to make though! Trent are one of the worst 'big' operators I have ever experienced, and Yourbus are run by the same people previously behind Dunn Line!