Nottingham 'Bus War'

[Jordy]

More Premiere news, the Red 7 and 7.1 are being replaced by NCT with the 47 and 47A. Timetable and Fares.

 

[bb21]

More Premiere news, the Red 7 and 7.1 are being replaced by NCT with the 47 and 47A. Timetable and Fares.

Now that is a number not seen in Nottingham since the Network reorganisation 11 years ago.

 

[WillPS]

Surprised to see NCT taking on the 7. It was a Barton route which was commercial until Trent deregistered them and moved them all to the other route which became the CC.

Calverton is definitely new stomping grounds for them. What buses will they use?

 

[MCR247]

Sigh, why not 46 and 47

 

[WillPS]

Is there not already a 46? There definitely used to be one, 3 journey in a 1 out in the morning (for Christ the King) and 1 in with 3 returns in the evening. I used to like getting it as it was normally quieter than the 45 and had more interesting buses (N113s, Lions and Citybuses regularly).

 

[Lewisham2221]

Sigh, why not 46 and 47

Does it really make a difference? :roll:

Besides, I imagine it's keep things a little bit simpler for people who were used to 7 and 7.1. They've both still got a 7.
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Is there not already a 46? There definitely used to be one, 3 journey in a 1 out in the morning (for Christ the King) and 1 in with 3 returns in the evening. I used to like getting it as it was normally quieter than the 45 and had more interesting buses (N113s, Lions and Citybuses regularly).

Not according to the NCT website.

 

[MCR247]

Is there not already a 46? There definitely used to be one, 3 journey in a 1 out in the morning (for Christ the King) and 1 in with 3 returns in the evening. I used to like getting it as it was normally quieter than the 45 and had more interesting buses (N113s, Lions and Citybuses regularly).

no I think that went before the major reshuffle that saw the 45 become the sky blue line
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Does it really make a difference? :roll:

Besides, I imagine it's keep things a little bit simpler for people who were used to 7 and 7.1. They've both still got a 7.

No, not really. It wasn't a very serious post, it just would have made more sense

 

[tbone]

Premiere have finally admitted that they've gone, a facebook message appeared about 10 minutes ago thanking people for their support.

 

[MCW]

to me all this premiere stuff is confusing me...

what is actually happening? are ALL of Premiere's routes being replaced at short notice by routes run by competitors? or is it just a few routes for now with others coming up?

 

[Lewisham2221]

Be interesting to what Kinchbus put out on the 9. My money's on it being one of the ex-R3 Excel's or ex-R4 Scania's. Knowing Wellglade it could be anything from the 'empire' though!

 

[Deerfold]

to me all this premiere stuff is confusing me...

what is actually happening? are ALL of Premiere's routes being replaced at short notice by routes run by competitors? or is it just a few routes for now with others coming up?

I think the replacements are concentrating on those which will leeave people without buses anywhere near them if they go - much of the network is very similar to TB or NCT routes so there's no real need for replacement.

 

[WillPS]

What happened to the Darts which were on it before?

 

[Lewisham2221]

What happened to the Darts which were on it before?

One caught fire during the last few days of Kinchbus' previous spell on the route. Another is apparently withdrawn due to gearbox failure. They seem to be fairly keen on getting rid of the Dart's anyway. I don't blame them!

 

[ashworth]

What about the services contracted out through Notts County Council like the 228?

 

[Lewisham2221]

What about the services contracted out through Notts County Council like the 228?

I imagine Notts CC will issue emergency short-term tenders for those routes and get them up and running with new operators ASAP. Could take a bit longer to sort though.

 

[tbone]

The 228 has gone back to Doyles.

Other operators to have gained contracts are Littles and PS Winson, amongst others.

 

[bb21]

Is there not already a 46? There definitely used to be one, 3 journey in a 1 out in the morning (for Christ the King) and 1 in with 3 returns in the evening. I used to like getting it as it was normally quieter than the 45 and had more interesting buses (N113s, Lions and Citybuses regularly).

Yes, ran by Lilac Line buses normally. 47 is the only one in the 40s that has not made an appearance in the last 11 years.

 

[Jordy]

Looks like Premiere have now removed their Facebook page.

 

[RJ]

I saw a rather tired looking X reg Optare Excel on the 9 today in dull red livery.

 

[tbone]

I saw a rather tired looking X reg Optare Excel on the 9 today in dull red livery.

Sounds like 234. To be fair to them, the fact that they are able to run any service at such short notice is a credit to them, I don't think we can criticise their vehicle choices!

 

[Jordy]

Another of the three 9 diagrams is being covered by ex Centrelink solo 452.

 

[tbone]

I also understand that 266 is the third bus. Well done to them for getting two full size buses at such short notice!

 

[trentside]

Nottinghamshire County Council have published a full list of ex-Premiere services along with new operators. Some interesting companies stepping into help that don't normally touch public service work.

• 54/55 - Stagecoach East Midlands
• 2 - Lowes Coaches (Peak Time / Schools only)
• 228 - Doyles
• 5/601/610 - AOT (Always On Time)
• 3.1/3.2 - Littles
• 63/65 - PS Winson
• 56 - Sharpes

School contracts have passed to AOT, Nottingham Minibus, Tiger European and Sharpes.

No information at present on the 6, 50, 53 and 73/74.

http://alt.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/home/latest-bus-information

 

[tbone]

Uni shuttles are currently suspended until further notice, no doubt UoN Re urgently seeking an alternative operator

 

[ARedFlyer]

So what can other rival operators who want to take on the big 2 learn from this? I think Premiere made a mistake going for rural less densely populated routes where there wasn't a high frequency (Keyworth, Bingham, EMA). Their main (only?) success was the Red 5. The Indigo has a frequency of less than 10 minutes so this already proved there was lots of footfall to pick up on that route (yes I know the Red 5 goes a more direct route). Y36 has been a success too this is because of high footfall and density on the route. So YourBus needs to target services with a frequency of 10 minutes or less as this is already established there are plenty of passengers to pick up.

Of course YB have already started to do this taking on the Red Arrow. They should strongly consider a Red 5 replacement and as i've said before a Y58 Sherwood>Arnold direct. Forget going to Bingham, Keyworth etc every half an hour a waste of time and money. Maybe later down the line.

 

[ALIEN14247]

It'll be Solos for nct 47/47A.

 

[Deerfold]

So what can other rival operators who want to take on the big 2 learn from this? I think Premiere made a mistake going for rural less densely populated routes where there wasn't a high frequency (Keyworth, Bingham, EMA).

Wasn't it too rapid expansion that was their mistake?

Their main (only?) success was the Red 5.

Wow - you've changed your tune.

Of course YB have already started to do this taking on the Red Arrow. They should strongly consider a Red 5 replacement and as i've said before a Y58 Sherwood>Arnold direct. Forget going to Bingham, Keyworth etc every half an hour a waste of time and money. Maybe later down the line.

So you think they should expand rapidly?

 

[WillPS]

Bellamys took on the 58 - it didn't go well, even with the novelty of Routemasters.

Y36 is perhaps a lone-example of an operation that has successfully taken on NCT.

NCT have proven a tricky one to beat - their network is extensive and their period and daily fares are reasonable. The easyrider product allows somebody in Arnold to do all the travel they need to in the entire city area for a pretty reasonable Direct Debit; I wouldn't be surprised to see the 47 affecting Trent's Calverton 'stronghold' for that reason (assuming easyrider xtra will cover it?).

I think if somebody wants to properly take on NCT they'd need to do it Nottingham Omnibus style and get a core network out, covering at least a handful of NCTs Go2 routes, and they'd have to be prepared to run for almost nothing for a period of 24-36 months. Rotala or Stagecoach are the only ones I can think of who could afford it.

What's Rotala's relationship with YourBus? In the early days of the 36 (now Y36) the timetable advised that they were 'operated by YourBus on behalf of Rotala plc.'.

 

[ARedFlyer]

Most successful businesses enjoy rapid expansion in their infancy. Problem with Premiere was their flawed business model, though hindsight is a wonderful thing. They became a bit too obsessed with emulating TB's network and taking them on.

Rapid expansion into profitable routes vs rapid expansion into non-profitable routes are two different entities, I'm sure you would agree. Indeed YourBus have already enjoyed what many people would class as rapid expansion, being only 4 years old.

I hope this helps.

Oh, and dark pink is my new favorite colour :-P

 

[tbone]

I think Premiere made a mistake .

I think Premiere made a big mistake by waging war with Trent Barton. It won't end well and no doubt Yourbus will learn this the hard way over the coming months.

5 years of 'real' competiton from Premiere as well as years from Yourbus against Trent and NCT and what has been achieved? One route. How many routes have failed? Loads. On top of all of Premere's, there's the Y81/2 and all its derivatives as well as the Y100. They are very difficult to compete with and I'd imagine that post Premiere both will and are tightening up their networks to prevent many future attacks. There aren't many areas in which Trent Barton can be competed with and I reckon Premiere attempted to or suceeded in exploiting all of them. Now they're gone Trent are filling in the gaps and I suspect that will be that.