Northwest Electrification Projects

[Whistler40145]

As expected, Liverpool Lime Street-Manchester Victoria/Piccadilly, Preston-Manchester & Preston-Blackpool North are to be electrified.

I expect on each part of the project that the necessary works to connect with existing Catenary will be left until other areas are complete?

Are there any major structural problems which could hinder the progress of the project?

I remember when the ECML was electrified, a restriction was in place to only permit the use of a single loco to draw from the OHLE, therefore if a Freightliner had 2x86/6s, then the rear loco had to lower it's Pantograph, does this apply to this project?

 

[ainsworth74]

Are there any major structural problems which could hinder the progress of the project?

Well there is a rather large bog between Manchester and Liverpool which could make it interesting getting the foundations for the OHLE masts set properly. Latest RAIL says that Network Rail think they've found a work around however.

 

[Whistler40145]

Similar problem to Rannoch Moor, as the line is built on a peat bog.

 

[rail-britain]

Latest RAIL says that Network Rail think they've found a work around however.

Presumably this will use the same technique as used between Airdrie and Bathgate
In which case they might be scratching their heads...

 

[142094]

I did once read that they used sheep carcases to stabilise the land on Rannoch Moor - whether this is true or not I don't know. Quite ingenious if it is.

 

[WatcherZero]

According to RAIL their solution is to use poles with a crossbar rather than free standing poles and to anchor them above the raft. NR are also claiming they will be using technology never before used in the UK.

 

[Welshman]

Well there is a rather large bog between Manchester and Liverpool which could make it interesting getting the foundations for the OHLE masts set properly. Latest RAIL says that Network Rail think they've found a work around however.

I heard they were going to use the latest techniques of inserting the masts on timber, laid in herringbone-fashion, combined with moss, heather and brushwood hurdles.

Oh, hang on. Sorry. That's how Stephenson built the railway in 1829.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I heard they were going to use the latest techniques of inserting the masts on timber, laid in herringbone-fashion, combined with moss, heather and brushwood hurdles.

Oh, hang on. Sorry. That's how Stephenson built the railway in 1829.

now he was clever!

They say theyve completed survey and are ready to start work so you wouldhope they have a plan ready really. Will the Liverpool Manchester bit be brought into use when its finished or will all bits need finishing.

Scrap that, its gonna depend on thameslink order not when its finished....

 

[Whistler40145]

Am I to presume that Wigan-Bolton & Wigan-Salford Crescent aren't part of the project?

 

[ukrob]

Am I to presume that Wigan-Bolton & Wigan-Salford Crescent aren't part of the project?

Correct.

 

[Whistler40145]

Maybe a side issue, do Freightliners bound for Trafford Park from the North go via Basford Hall?

Have Network Rail ever considered building a purpose built freight line from Trafford Park towards Worsley & connect into Preston-Manchester line? Either that or a spur from WCML in Warrington area?

 

[Whistler40145]

As Network Rail have reopened the spur @ Olive Mount Jn, would it benefit freight operators to electrify the line to Bootle?

 

[Ploughman]

I did once read that they used sheep carcases to stabilise the land on Rannoch Moor - whether this is true or not I don't know. Quite ingenious if it is.

Same solution used at Fen Bog on the NYMR

 

[Whistler40145]

Ploughman, that sounds delightful! Sheep carcasses, what next!

 

[Bevan Price]

As Network Rail have reopened the spur @ Olive Mount Jn, would it benefit freight operators to electrify the line to Bootle?

Not unless they also electrified Warrington to Fiddlers Ferry Power station, which is the destination of much of the coal traffic on the Bootle line.

 

[furryfeet]

Are there any major structural problems which could hinder the progress of the project?

Farnworth tunnels should be difficult - one of the reasons why that stayed diesel in BR days was due to the high cost of electrifying those two tunnels.
How are NR going going to tackle this problem ?

P.S. Is the signalling going to be upgraded, or will it be a case of keeping what is there and making sure that it is all a/c immunised ?

 

[Welshman]

Would this location be a case for discontinuous electrification?

 

[mickey]

As Network Rail have reopened the spur @ Olive Mount Jn, would it benefit freight operators to electrify the line to Bootle?

If they re-launch container trains then yes, it would. This is only likely to happen when (or more likely if) the new deep-sea terminal is built on the river at Seaforth. As stated above, if that doesn't go ahead it will stay as it is. Container train routings will most likely be to the midlands and Scotland so could easily be run throughout with electric locos.

 

[Whistler40145]

Is it clearance problems with Farnworth Tunnels?

 

[Toots]

Maybe a side issue, do Freightliners bound for Trafford Park from the North go via Basford Hall?

Have Network Rail ever considered building a purpose built freight line from Trafford Park towards Worsley & connect into Preston-Manchester line? Either that or a spur from WCML in Warrington area?

There is already a spur at Newton-le- Willows,Anything running to Worsley would now be difficult because of building over the track alignment at Monton Green....

 

[Whistler40145]

If Freightliners from the North & Scotland travelled via the spur @ Newton-le-Willows, they still would have to reverse somewhere in Manchester to reach Trafford Park without being routed via Basford Hall.

An alternative is to wire from the WCML @ Hartford via Knutsford, but the obstacle would be the single section from Altrincham to Stockport, To overcome this, build a new link to the Liverpool-Warrington Central-Trafford Park-Manchester line, so freightliners arrive from the West.

 

[Nym]

Or just build a junction with the chat moss route at Kenyton and re-lay track to Glasebrook (yes, I know it would need a new bridge over the M62) but I don't see how Port Salford is going to stop the need for ?electric fregihts into Trafford Park and this seems to be the shortest distance for electrification, and if it where done before or during the existing possessions for electification it would mean a diversionary route and/or less possessions.

Satelite of the area. http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8&ll=53.446251,-2.501106&spn=0.078109,0.154324&t=h&z=13

 

[Whistler40145]

Nym, never thought of that alternative, good idea.

 

[driver9000]

Is it clearance problems with Farnworth Tunnels?

Definitely in the Down (from Manchester) direction where the tunnel bore is smaller than the Up line.

 

[Whistler40145]

driver9000, so that will be a long job?

Stupid question, what is above Farnworth Tunnel?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....They say theyve completed survey and are ready to start work so you wouldhope they have a plan ready really. Will the Liverpool Manchester bit be brought into use when its finished or will all bits need finishing.

Scrap that, its gonna depend on thameslink order not when its finished....

When Manchester to Newton-Le-Willows section is complete, the idea is/was to re-route Manchester-Scotland TPE services via Chat Moss and Wigan using new build electric units (350s?). The Manchester-Liverpool services would have to wait until Earlestown-Liverpool is complete and units are available for it.

 

[Whistler40145]

With a possible headache for Network Rail regards Engineering Works to electrify Farnworth Tunnel, I can now understand why TPE services will be routed via Eccles & Wigan!

 

[WatcherZero]

Some additional tidbits Huyton Junction linespeed will be increased from 25mph to 40mph as part of the project and Prescott signal box will be decommisioned.

 

[First class]

Some additional tidbits Huyton Junction linespeed will be increased from 25mph to 40mph as part of the project and Prescott signal box will be decommisioned.

I wonder whether the signalling below will be moved to align with electrification:

• 2017 – Liverpool (Allerton and Speke area
resignalling
• 2019 - Liverpool Lime Street area resignalling
• 2020 – Liverpool Edge Hill area resignalling
• 2022 – Merseyrail area resignalling

 

[DarloRich]

Farnworth tunnels should be difficult - one of the reasons why that stayed diesel in BR days was due to the high cost of electrifying those two tunnels.
How are NR going going to tackle this problem ?

P.S. Is the signalling going to be upgraded, or will it be a case of keeping what is there and making sure that it is all a/c immunised ?

Will the track bed not just be lowered?