Northwest Electrification Projects

[tbtc]

For some really daft reason the politicans in this country only ever to consider electrifing lines on an individual basis, they never seem to consider the Rail network in totality. What this means is that you have many line radiating from London that are electrified but very few cross country routes, which means that almost all the frieght in this country is desiel hauled. Scotland seems to have the right idea.

The best example of that is that the only way of getting an electric train from Leeds to Manchester is either to go up to Edinburgh/ Carstairs or down to the North London Line - none of the lines in between allow an electric link from the ECML to the WCML
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I note that you make mention of the Caldervale route going via Brighouse to Leeds, which is a direct route these days. But by going through Brighouse, you will cut out Bradford Interchange. Was that to prevent the need for reversal at Bradford? Surely it would also be useful also to electrify the line from Milner Royd junction through Dryclough junction, carrying on via Halifax to Bradford.

There is much in the way of case argument about the relative rights and benefits to either the west or to the east sides of the Pennines, when discussing North-South routes, but there is the matter of cross-Pennine electrification is one that seems logical to people on both sides of the Pennines, but has been very late in coming even to the discussion stage.

Sorry, I don't think I explained myself very well.

The way I see it is this:

The main Transpennine route from Leeds to Manchester has a lot of trains running over it, but it isn't a great case for electrification because these trains run on to Hull/ Scarborough/ Middlesbrough at the eastern end (so you'd need to either wire these lines up/ cut links if you want electrification to free up a lot of DMUs).

However, the Caldervale line could potentially sustain a fifteen minute service from Leeds to Manchester. What you'd need to do is

1. Divert the (York) - Leeds - Bradford - Hebden Bridge - Burnley - Blackburn - Preston - Blackpool service to run via Brighouse (meaning that the current "via Brighouse" service would run via Bradford instead).

2. Chop the "Grand Tour" so that the Wakefield - Huddersfield - Brighouse - Bradford - Leeds (Selby) service becomes Wakefield - Huddersfield - Brighouse - Bradford (plus a separate Leeds - Selby service)

3. Replace this with an hourly Leeds - Bradford replacement

4. You now have four trains an hour from Leeds to Bradford (along the Caldervale line), three trains an hour from Bradford to Rochdale and four trains an hour from Rochdale to Manchester. None of this has needed a massive increase in units.

5. The next step is to electrify Leeds - Bradford - Halifax - Hebden Bridge - Rochdale - Manchester and give it a fifteen minute DMU service (say two an hour doing the "local" Yorkshire stations (Bramley/ Pudsey) and the other two trains doing the "local" Lancashire stations (Castleton/ Moston etc)

6. You've then freed up a dozen DMUs to be used elsewhere at the cost of around fifty miles of track

7. There's then potential for EMUs to run from Leeds/Bradford/Rochdale to Bolton/ Blackpool/ Liverpool etc (balancing up the EMUs at Victoria)

8. You've not had to make many significant cuts. The only significant "loss" would be Bradford - East Lancashire/Blackpool (though this could be compensated by running direct services through to Blackpool via Bolton). Most of the lost other links are more there for operational convenience (nobody uses the train to travel from Selby to Wakefield via Brighouse, for example!)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Thank you for clarifying matters. I thought that I was the only one on the West side of the Pennines who saw electrification of the Caldervale line as something with much to offer.

Your section (5) in your posting is excellant in every respect.

 

[Whistler40145]

During the period that the Manchester to Liverpool via Earlestown line is closed for Electrification, would Liverpool bound trains run via Wigan North Western & St Helens Central or will it be replacement bus services?

Also, will Manchester to North Wales services start at Warrington Bank Quay or will some get diverted via Stockport & Knutsford?

Any answers would be welcome.

 

[WatcherZero]

I dont think they envisage a long period of closure, mostly working at night with a few weekends.

 

[Whistler40145]

Ok WatcherZero, thanks for the info

 

[Nym]

At the moment it's closed every weekend, if I get any Manchester routes next week (I spend most of my time in N and W Yorks) I'll see if I can get some photos of whats been going on, I'm sure I've seen pile driving equipment and close survary equipment on the M602 Parallell a few weeks back, so it may already have concrete cantry bases.

 

[Whistler40145]

So Network Rail are moving quickly & with advancing technology it won't take ages to do this line.

 

[185]

There was a time when the North Wales stuff briefly went via Wigan!

Leek flavoured pies for tea then....

 

[Nym]

So Network Rail are moving quickly & with advancing technology it won't take ages to do this line.

The on track plant I saw last time when I was on my way though Eccles was reasonably impressive yeah.

The only thing I personally would prefer is throwing more men at it, if there was enough expertise, with them doing whole line closures all the way from Newton to Ordstall Lane, they could proberbly have the concrete in in under a month...

As I don't seem to remember setting the bases to be that complicated.

 

[ukrob]

At the moment it's closed every weekend, if I get any Manchester routes next week (I spend most of my time in N and W Yorks) I'll see if I can get some photos of whats been going on, I'm sure I've seen pile driving equipment and close survary equipment on the M602 Parallell a few weeks back, so it may already have concrete cantry bases.

No it isn't - it is open right now for example. Nor are there any closures this month.

As far as I am aware the only work being done so far is work around structures - bridges etc.

 

[Nym]

OK, stand corrected, but every saturday I'd driven into Manchester it was closed...

 

[WatcherZero]

Thats right its only structures at the moment, actual electrification work starts at the end of the year.

 

[Whistler40145]

Will the route require any extra electrical Feeder Stations?

I know equipment exists where the WCML passes underneath near the former Bickershaw Collery.

 

[ole man]

There going to float the foundations as chat moss is a swamp,similar measures were done on the crewe-manchester line just north of crewe because of the old salt mines underneath
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Will the route require any extra electrical Feeder Stations?

I know equipment exists where the WCML passes underneath near the former Bickershaw Collery.

Heard a rumour that it will fed from edge hill at the liverpool side