Northern rolling stock changes post electrification

[Brian Aylott]

Northern 323s are serviced at Longsight by Alstom staff though. I visited the depot recently.

Yes, of course - they are allocated there and maintained in the the very restricted electric shed under contract - unlikely to have any more capacity and even if it could be found, unlikely that Northern could afford a new enhanced contract
Anyhow of the Northern fleet, Alstom fitters only know the 323s
Brian

 

[childwallblues]

Northern 323s are serviced at Longsight by Alstom staff though. I visited the depot recently.

There is a two road depot to the south of the main depot at Longsight which is used to service the 323s.

 

[thealexweb]

To clarify, Northern Rail were originally supposed to recieve 14 x Class 319s by December of this year. This has now been increased to 20 x Class 319s by December to compensate for the subleasing of 6 x Class 156s to Transpennine Express.

If this is true, Will 20 x Class 319s be enough to entirely operate Liverpool to Manchester Airport / Manchester Victoria / Warrington Bank Quay / Wigan North Western and Preston?

 

[northwichcat]

To clarify, Northern Rail were originally supposed to recieve 14 x Class 319s by December of this year. This has now been increased to 20 x Class 319s by December to compensate for the subleasing of 6 x Class 156s to Transpennine Express.

If this is true, Will 20 x Class 319s be enough to entirely operate Liverpool to Manchester Airport / Manchester Victoria / Warrington Bank Quay / Wigan North Western and Preston?

DfT have got themselves a bit mixed up over Liverpool-Preston. They released a press release saying it will go over to electric from Autumn 2015. However, a more detailed document released the same day says they have asked Northern to examine the implications of splitting up Liverpool-Blackpool services from September 2015 to free up DMUs and to come up with a suggested figure of how many (if any) through services should remain.

 

[158722]

To clarify, Northern Rail were originally supposed to recieve 14 x Class 319s by December of this year. This has now been increased to 20 x Class 319s by December to compensate for the subleasing of 6 x Class 156s to Transpennine Express.

If this is true, Will 20 x Class 319s be enough to entirely operate Liverpool to Manchester Airport / Manchester Victoria / Warrington Bank Quay / Wigan North Western and Preston?

Based on the current timetable/frequency, Liverpool to Manchester Airport / Manchester Victoria / Warrington Bank Quay / Wigan North Western can be covered by 12 of the 14 units.

Should Liverpool to Preston (vice Blackpool) go electric this year, then 4 from the 6 extras should be sufficient. 16 from 20 diagrammed seems fine, considering that 1 or 2 units will be being refreshed through Wolverton over the next 12 months or so.

 

[thealexweb]

Based on the current timetable/frequency, Liverpool to Manchester Airport / Manchester Victoria / Warrington Bank Quay / Wigan North Western can be covered by 12 of the 14 units.

Should Liverpool to Preston (vice Blackpool) go electric this year, then 4 from the 6 extras should be sufficient. 16 from 20 diagrammed seems fine, considering that 1 or 2 units will be being refreshed through Wolverton over the next 12 months or so.

This is excellent and even taking in to account the subleasing of the Class 156s there should be plenty of spare rolling stock for Bolton reinforcing and operating the Todmorden curve.

 

[northwichcat]

This is excellent and even taking in to account the subleasing of the Class 156s there should be plenty of spare rolling stock for Bolton reinforcing and operating the Todmorden curve.

10-12 months later than scheduled.

 

[thealexweb]

10-12 months later than scheduled.

Yeh I was trying to be optimistic. The Todmorden Curve thread can only take so much bad news.

 

[Llama]

319 driver training for Manchester Victoria and Wigan drivers is being planned, with Driver Instructors' training beginning in just over a fortnight. DIs from Vic, Picc, Liverpool, Wigan and Blackpool will be involved. Practical handling for Manchester Victoria drivers will continue to be done on the WCML between Crewe and Allerton until the 319s enter service over Chat Moss, but the moves between Crewe and Allerton may continue for a while after this time to allow Liverpool drivers to maintain competency (under DI instruction) on the traction - there are only so many trains that drivers can work, and if all the Chat Moss services are being used for training Man Vic and Wigan drivers, Liverpool drivers wouldn't get much of a look in.

Static training will still be done at Stockport CS for Man Vic drivers and Preston CS for Wiganers (Wigan drivers will do their practical handling between Preston and Carnforth using similar paths to those used by TPE drivers when they trained 350s).

 

[deltic08]

Has the latest refurbed 319 left Crewe yet?

 

[Class377/5]

Has the latest refurbed 319 left Crewe yet?

Left Sunday morning.

 

[Class 170101]

Not sure what to make of this, but was speaking to a conductor on a Northern service today and they have been told that the 319's are now going to based at Springs Branch, Wigan instead of Allerton.

This surely can't be right. :?

Instead of EMUs at Springs Branch how about DMUs moving from Allerton to Springs Branch to release space at Allerton for EMUs instead?

 

[SC318250]

So from this can we take it 321411-417 are going to Scotland?

Will one leave for refurbishment/relivery before going off lease in September?

 

[childwallblues]

So from this can we take it 321411-417 are going to Scotland?

Will one leave for refurbishment/relivery before going off lease in September?

Have I missed a message? Where did this come from?

 

[northwichcat]

Have I missed a message? Where did this come from?

The lease expires on the GN 321s in September and the LM 321s next April. Scotrail agreed a deal to take on 7 x 321s from September. Govia have worked a deal for 7 x 319s to go to LM, so the GN 321s can stay where they are and there won't be issues with inconsistent fleets or securing EMUs for the LM Direct Award.

 

[8A Rail]

Instead of EMUs at Springs Branch how about DMUs moving from Allerton to Springs Branch to release space at Allerton for EMUs instead?

They are doing that anyway, as I've written earlier in this thread, Allerton Depot will be the base for the Class 319 fleet, as Northern Rail have spent considerable amount of money on the Depot and that includes re-energising some of the lines in and around the depot too for this purpose. Allerton was still have a "few" (less than handful is the impression) of DMU's to look after other services in the area (eg. CLC route). As you may appreciate, this will be done over time as and when more Class 319's appear and gradually take over the DMU turns. Also, some Class 319's wil be probably "outstation" to other locations to look after the "turns" that begin at other locations outside Merseyside otherwise there will be a lot of ECS running. Whether Springs Branch (??) and other locations fits into this category I have no idea.

 

[northwichcat]

Instead of EMUs at Springs Branch how about DMUs moving from Allerton to Springs Branch to release space at Allerton for EMUs instead?

There's still the Liverpool-Warrington-Manchester line which will be DMU.

As I've mentioned in other threads Northern want to eliminate the ECS workings between Newton Heath/Longsight and Chester and replace them with ECS workings between Allerton and Chester as it would reduce the amount of ECS mileage and make pathing similar.

 

[43074]

Sorry to be a pain but would it be possible for someone to confirm which 319s are confirmed or planned to be transferring to Northern?

Also which 6 are subleased to Southeastern (although I understand 6 377s are used by SE in this arrangement?)

Many thanks, there's rather a lot going on at the moment so it's a bit difficult to keep track of all these changes!

 

[158722]

Sorry to be a pain but would it be possible for someone to confirm which 319s are confirmed or planned to be transferring to Northern?

Also which 6 are subleased to Southeastern (although I understand 6 377s are used by SE in this arrangement?)

Many thanks, there's rather a lot going on at the moment so it's a bit difficult to keep track of all these changes!

My understanding is as follows;
319361-369/71/72/74/77-80/82/83/86 plus one of 375 or 376
Of these, 362-365 have been refreshed and 361/66/68/79/80/82 are currently at Wolverton.
Of the others, based on the original plan, 372 was due Dec 14, 367/369/386 Feb 15, 371/74/83 Mar 15, 375 or 376 Apr and 377/78 in May. That seems to have changed however.

319217/220/373/421/436/451 were the nominal South Eastern ones.

 

[Wolfie]

Deleted

 

[yorkie]

perhaps a mod can sort...

There are 2648 posts in this thread. If someone who has been following it can give me a list (via PM,or even better with the report button) of posts that should be moved, and a suitable topic title, I will do it. If not, then it's not really practicable.

Can I ask if anyone wants to discuss something other than the topic in hand to click the button please? It only takes a few seconds to click the right button, but can take a lot of our time to sort out the mess if people don't.

 

[childwallblues]

I travelled on 319004 today on Thameslink. Has this unit been refreshed as it is in the new livery?

 

[Bletchleyite]

There are 2648 posts in this thread. If someone who has been following it can give me a list of posts that should be moved, and a suitable topic title, I will do it. If not, then it's not really practicable.

It appears to be post 2642 and a number of replies under it (to 2646).

Should probably have been in:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2039857

Neil

 

[Greenback]

Thank you.

 

[Geeves]

The three Northern liveried 319s at Allerton are 362, 363 and 364. I believe 364 has Northern Logos now. Driver and guard training at Liverpool LS is nearing completion. Vic and Wigan start soon at Stockport and Preston respectively.

 

[user15681]

The three Northern liveried 319s at Allerton are 362, 363 and 364. I believe 364 has Northern Logos now. Driver and guard training at Liverpool LS is nearing completion. Vic and Wigan start soon at Stockport and Preston respectively.

Have you managed to lose 319365?!

But yes, you're right, 319364 is with logos and is the first fully refreshed unit.

 

[AM9]

Have you managed to lose 319365?!

But yes, you're right, 319364 is with logos and is the first fully refreshed unit.

So that is the one that will be rolled out for the media launch of electric services next month.

 

[user15681]

So that is the one that will be rolled out for the media launch of electric services next month.

It's possible. This is the first, but it's not to say that 362/363/365 won't be fully done by then, given the delays... :roll:

Northern did Tweet a picture earlier too...

Here’s a sneak peek at one of our completed 319 electric trains, the latest addition to our fleet. #NWelectrics

Hope nobody misinterpreted '319 electric trains' as 319 of them!

In the replies, there was also possibly a vague suggestion that some units would be named. Someone Tweeted something and suggested they'd found the name for the first unit, to which Northern said "Stay tuned there will be more info on this soon!" (unless I've misinterpreted Northern's comment!)

 

[AM9]

It's possible. This is the first, but it's not to say that 362/363/365 won't be fully done by then, given the delays... :roll:

Northern did Tweet a picture earlier too...


Hope nobody misinterpreted '319 electric trains' as 319 of them!

In the replies, there was also possibly a vague suggestion that some units would be named. Someone Tweeted something and suggested they'd found the name for the first unit, to which Northern said "Stay tuned there will be more info on this soon!" (unless I've misinterpreted Northern's comment!)

I'm sure that a few suggestions could be made by forum posters.

 

[Viscount702]

Do we know how many units will be available by May when TPE will be using 6 x 156s. Hopefully 6 + but is this confirmed.