Northern rolling stock changes post electrification

[samj]

Do the test runs between Liverpool South Parkway and Crewe run on specific days or is it as required? Thanks in advance.

 

[zuriblue]

Do the test runs between Liverpool South Parkway and Crewe run on specific days or is it as required? Thanks in advance.

In RTT it's down as runs as required

 

[deltic08]

Some people on here seem to think switch a DMU to an EMU and you'll see huge growth as a result. I was pointing out there needs to be more than just switching DMUs to EMUs to get huge growth.

In that case please come and electrify the Leeds-Harrogate-York Loop and that will prove the "Sparks Effect" to you.

Currently we have Pacers, 150s and 153s in 2,3, and 4car formations. 4-cars cope peak and off peak, 3-cars just cope off peak but definitely not peak. 2 cars don't cope any time but single Pacers are diagrammed throughout the day.

Quiet, refreshed 4-car 319s with good acceleration is just what is needed on this route to attract passengers back to rail who have been lost to rail by dirty, noisy, smelly Pacers and 150s after using better quality East Coat stock by interchanging at York and Leeds.

Local Councillors are expecting a doubling of footfall on this route with electrification. I have my reservations until Harrogate-Ripon-Northallerton is reinstated.

 

[Bevan Price]

If Newton-Le-Willows, along with many of the other staions on the routes being electrified, are to become real commuter stops, then expect to have to pay for car parking. About £8 per day* is not uncommon across the London commuter area.
* when leaving a car before 10:00. £3 seems to be a norm for parking after 10:00.

They are already commuter stops.

Merseytravel policy is for free car parking. Charging would lose a lot of passengers - and put more cars on the roads around Liverpool.

Just consider the example of Runcorn, with Virgin-level car park charges, but with rather less rail commuters into Liverpool than might be expected (but the adjacent road bridge is often blocked with car-borne commuters heading to/from the Liverpool area. )

 

[mpb56125]

Do the test runs between Liverpool South Parkway and Crewe run on specific days or is it as required? Thanks in advance.

The last few weeks they have only been running on Sunday, Monday & Tuesday's due to ongoing work in Allerton Depot during the week.

Mark
http://www.mark5812.smugmug.com/

 

[childwallblues]

If Newton-Le-Willows, along with many of the other staions on the routes being electrified, are to become real commuter stops, then expect to have to pay for car parking. About £8 per day* is not uncommon across the London commuter area.
* when leaving a car before 10:00. £3 seems to be a norm for parking after 10:00.

Newton-le-Willows is in Merseyside and as such is a Merseytravel station. All car parking provided by Merseytravel at its stations is FREE.

 

[AM9]

Newton-le-Willows is in Merseyside and as such is a Merseytravel station. All car parking provided by Merseytravel at its stations is FREE.

At the moment. One day it may charge just like TfL.

 

[northwichcat]

In that case please come and electrify the Leeds-Harrogate-York Loop and that will prove the "Sparks Effect" to you.

The so called 'sparks effect' happened on TPE services pre-electrification and also on XC services as a result of 'operation princess'. It happens when you provide an improved service not just because you switch diesel trains to electric.

Local Councillors are expecting a doubling of footfall on this route with electrification. I have my reservations until Harrogate-Ripon-Northallerton is reinstated.

Doubling of football isn't that impressive in the current climate. My local station has gone from 241,000 to 500,000 despite an unjustified cutback in weekday commuter services as a result of Virgin VHF and most services being operated by 2 car 142s and 150s. Harrogate's growth in the same period hasn't been that impressive, although Knaresborough doesn't fair too badly.

 

[Bletchleyite]

At the moment. One day it may charge just like TfL.

Personally I think Northern should have introduced car parking charges rather than their ill-conceived, badly-implemented evening peak restrictions.

I have no issues with evening peak restrictions in and of themselves, but to have done it properly (e.g. only on the way out of big cities in the peak) would have brought in less money that would have to come from somewhere.

Neil
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The so called 'sparks effect' happened on TPE services pre-electrification and also on XC services as a result of 'operation princess'. It happens when you provide an improved service not just because you switch diesel trains to electric.

True, though there is one big improvement coming with the Class 319s - capacity. The trains themselves are nothing special but are adequate - electric 150s, basically.

Neil

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Time passes by remorselessly and the "cascade" still more resembles a "drip-feed".

 

[ashworth]

They are already commuter stops.

Merseytravel policy is for free car parking. Charging would lose a lot of passengers - and put more cars on the roads around Liverpool.

Just consider the example of Runcorn, with Virgin-level car park charges, but with rather less rail commuters into Liverpool than might be expected (but the adjacent road bridge is often blocked with car-borne commuters heading to/from the Liverpool area. )

I think this is a big problem where stations like Runcorn, which also ought to have reasonable parking charges for commuters, are on major main lines and have parking charges set by a TOC such as Virgin.

If you think that the £8 being charged at Runcorn is too high for commuters travelling into Liverpool just compare some of the parking charges at stations in the north operated by EMT and East Coast!
I would love to be able to travel into Sheffield occasionally by train from Chesterfield, but the price to park at Chesterfield is now £10.50. Perhaps £10.50 is a fair charge for parking at a major city centre station, but not at a smaller provincial market town. Many people commute the short distance from Chesterfield to Sheffield but unless you live within walking distance of Chesterfield station, the car or bus wins over the train because of this unreasonable parking charge.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They are already commuter stops.

Merseytravel policy is for free car parking. Charging would lose a lot of passengers - and put more cars on the roads around Liverpool.

Would it? Surely that would depend on the level of the charge. Parking all day in central Liverpool is going to cost you a tenner or more.

Neil

 

[WatcherZero]

Its in pte's interests to encourage free parking on the fringes to stop people driving into city centres.

 

[W230]

I would love to be able to travel into Sheffield occasionally by train from Chesterfield, but the price to park at Chesterfield is now £10.50. Perhaps £10.50 is a fair charge for parking at a major city centre station, but not at a smaller provincial market town. Many people commute the short distance from Chesterfield to Sheffield but unless you live within walking distance of Chesterfield station, the car or bus wins over the train because of this unreasonable parking charge.

I'm with you on this one but I guess there is a problem of the system being open to abuse, though usually I think you do have to display a related rail ticket (I may be wrong). Certainly car park prices in central towns and cities seems unreal nowadays.

As much as I like to see rail get people off the road, on the whole (outside London) people wlll still need/want to make some of their journey by car.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm with you on this one but I guess there is a problem of the system being open to abuse, though usually I think you do have to display a related rail ticket (I may be wrong).

What, on Merseyrail? No, you don't, or not generally. There may be the odd case of having to display a free rail user voucher but I don't think so.

Neil

 

[DJH1971]

Not sure what to make of this, but was speaking to a conductor on a Northern service today and they have been told that the 319's are now going to based at Springs Branch, Wigan instead of Allerton.

This surely can't be right. :?

 

[Wavertreelad]

Would it? Surely that would depend on the level of the charge. Parking all day in central Liverpool is going to cost you a tenner or more.

Neil

Depends on where you park, there are a couple car parks in the Pall Mall area that charge about a fiver for a whole day, although they are not open at weekends.

Wavertree Tech Park is in desperate need of park and ride facilities, the roads around the station are very congested very often seven days a week. Rathbone Road is a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[WatcherZero]

Not sure what to make of this, but was speaking to a conductor on a Northern service today and they have been told that the 319's are now going to based at Springs Branch, Wigan instead of Allerton.

This surely can't be right. :?

Was a rumour yesterday Network Rail had bought the depot, if the two rumours have different origins then it would paint a more complete picture.

 

[marko31161]

On the 319 course,theory is done Wednesday-Saturday followed by practical handling Sunday and Monday with a pass out on Tuesday.
Hence the trains running to Crewe on these days only.

 

[DJH1971]

Was a rumour yesterday Network Rail had bought the depot, if the two rumours have different origins then it would paint a more complete picture.

And I thought Springs Branch shut down some years ago.

 

[WatcherZero]

Still a trickle of work, scrapping diesel locos and maintaining MPV's

 

[Bevan Price]

What, on Merseyrail? No, you don't, or not generally. There may be the odd case of having to display a free rail user voucher but I don't think so.

Neil

At St. Helens Central, you need to show a valid rail ticket or pass to get a free parking ticket. It costs £6 per day if you are not a rail user. This is because the car park was being abused by non-rail travellers.

 

[deltic08]

The so called 'sparks effect' happened on TPE services pre-electrification and also on XC services as a result of 'operation princess'. It happens when you provide an improved service not just because you switch diesel trains to electric.

There hasn't been an improvement on TPE as such. One noisy vibrating class of unit, 158, was replaced with an even noisier unit, the 185, with less legroom. The reason there has been growth is that service frequency went from two an hour to four an hour.

Electrification will hopefully provide longer trains, at least five coaches long, with a more InterCity feel to them. Journey time is forecast to reduce from 49 minutes to 36 minutes between Leeds and Manchester purely on performance alone. If there isn't going to be a "Sparks Effect" why bother spending on electrification?

 

[childwallblues]

What, on Merseyrail? No, you don't, or not generally. There may be the odd case of having to display a free rail user voucher but I don't think so.

Neil

You have to get a parking ticket by showing a valid rail ticket at the booking office at St Helens Central.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There hasn't been an improvement on TPE as such. One noisy vibrating class of unit, 158, was replaced with an even noisier unit, the 185, with less legroom.

There are many valid criticisms of Class 185s, not least that they are too short. But the seat pitch can't possibly be one of them - it is vastly more generous than the Class 158 original layout.

As for IC layout for TPE I doubt it, 1/4 3/4 or 1/3 2/3 are the only likely door layouts - do you remember how slow loading and unloading were in the 158 days? I'd expect a Desiro City or Aventra with a layout similar to the Class 350/1, 3 or 4 to be used.

Neil
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You have to get a parking ticket by showing a valid rail ticket at the booking office at St Helens Central.

Thanks (and to the other poster), I stand corrected.

Neil

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Still a trickle of work, scrapping diesel locos and maintaining MPV's

Would there be a great deal of financial upgrading costs required at the Springs Branch facility to ensure it was fully upgraded to be ready to carry out all the required maintenance duties on the Class 319 EMU ?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Would there be a great deal of financial upgrading costs required at the Springs Branch facility to ensure it was fully upgraded to be ready to carry out all the required maintenance duties on the Class 319 EMU ?

It isn't electrified for a start.
I suppose there will need to be a parking area for Wigan terminators after Bolton-Wigan goes live.
But surely Allerton is the place to go. It won't be needing to host as many diesel units soon.
Then there's the future of Newton Heath to think about and the Manchester area electrics.
I doubt there's a serious plan for Springs Branch to go electric.
Possibly for HS2 instead of the putative new depot at Golborne?

 

[edwin_m]

A lot of money was spent bringing Allerton back into use with the specific intention of providing a base for the EMUs. So I'd be very surprised if what would probably be an even greater sum was spent converting Springs Branch for the same role.

 

[deltic08]

There are many valid criticisms of Class 185s, not least that they are too short. But the seat pitch can't possibly be one of them - it is vastly more generous than the Class 158 original layout.

To say there is more legroom on a 185 than a 158 does not mean there is enough. I do not find a problem with 158s but my first ride on a 185 in a table seat was a nightmare with knocking knees of the two lads sitting opposite. I am just less than average height but I can only assume those who think there is plenty of room on a 185 must be vertically challenged.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To say there is more legroom on a 185 than a 158 does not mean there is enough. I do not find a problem with 158s but my first ride on a 185 in a table seat was a nightmare with knocking knees of the two lads sitting opposite. I am just less than average height but I can only assume those who think there is plenty of room on a 185 must be vertically challenged.

To be fair I mainly choose an airline seat, but the table seats are slightly better spaced than the 158 ones. Though there isn't a lot in it. I expect coincidence.

I am 6' 4" and very long in the leg (35" inside leg) so I do notice these things!

Anyway we are heading off topic from 319s.

Neil