Manchester77
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Will you North Easterners not recieve some cascaded 156s post 319 introduction on the west side?
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Northern rolling stock changes post electrification
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Will you North Easterners not recieve some cascaded 156s post 319 introduction on the west side?
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Well, 319s would be easier to path on the ECML as locals (in addition to TPE, not instead of, and possibly running through to Morpeth or even further north).
childwallblues
Established Member
I think that you will find that a large amount of people are very happy with electrification. Getting rid of the Pacers and four car EMUs is a definite improvement.
Many people on group do not show their location. I would not be surprised if these people are outside of the North West of England.
Outside the enthusiast world, the minutae of train types and their previous users is irrelevant to ordinary paying passengers. Their first priority is almost always reliability, followed by basic comfort which is really about capacity. Apart from user groups that often contain enthusiasts and local papers that will print anything to grab attention, sustained whingeing about the stock is only prevalent in those who have nothing better to do.
And that is based on what spoilt South-East commuters do. I doubt that more 'deprived' areas that really have been putting-up with inadequate stock will behave any differently. I was using the Thumpers between Fareham and Portsmouth around 1990 and the consensus was that over 20 year-old MKI 421s & 423s were perfectly good for the service.
Yes, I think most people who have paid a fare DO care about whether or not they get a SEAT. They also care about the quality of the seat, including whether or not it is possible to get your knees behind the seat in front or clear of facing passengers in bays of 4.
Most EMUs are 3 or 4 car and so when they replace 2 car DMUs there WILL be more seats. Also many DMUs (140s, 143s 144s & 150s) seem to be fitted with peculiarly badly designed and uncomfortable seats with minimal seat pitch, sometimes so close that only a child could sit in comfort. Whereas even modern EMUs have adequate seats, I doubt that anyone ever complained about the seats in 423s and their replacements are not an improvement in this respect.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Northern do run a considerable number of 4 car DMU workings at peak times. This isn't really the case on Manchester Airport-Liverpool services but there are some 4 car workings on Manchester Victoria-Liverpool, Wigan-Liverpool, Hazel Grove-Preston and Manchester Victoria-Blackpool. On the Bolton corridor there are 4 car workings at off-peak times and some of the 4 car workings at peak times are very busy and it wouldn't need much growth for 5 car minimum to be needed.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
A 4 car 319 compared to a 2 car 142 would be a huge increase in capacity. However, there aren't many 2 car 142 diagrams which will switch to 4 car 319s, the majority (when you include Blackpool and Bolton) are 2 car Sprinters at off-peak times and 4 car Sprinters at peak times. The introduction of 319s will release Sprinters to replace/strengthen services which are operated by 2 car 142s and require extra capacity.
It's even expected that Manchester Airport-Blackpool will transfer to Northern and get 319s as well and possibly 319s to Lancaster/Cumbria with Barrow/Windermere losing direct Manchester links. If it was proposed Middlesbrough-York will be electrified and get 319s turning back at York instead of the 185s to Manchester, would political figures be claiming a good deal for the North East or horrible London cast offs?
Remember the 'North West' region consists of Cheshire, Greater Manchester, Merseyside, Lancashire and Cumbria and has a combined population around 3 times the size of the North East. If you combine the population of the North West boroughs which aren't getting 319s then you get a figure similar to the population of the North East.
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po8crg
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I think people's priorities on a train are:
1. It arrives and runs to time or very close (a minute or two late and no-one cares).
2. They can get a seat (or, for very short commuter services in peak, they're standing in moderate comfort and not crammed into someone's armpit).
3. The seat is comfortable. That includes things like a reasonable temperature, seat comfort, and more legroom than Ryanair.
Many of the things enthusiasts moan about like vibration from underfloor engines or bad window alignment are not generally a big deal with the paying public. Bench seats (like on the 142) are unpopular compared to "proper" seats. Not having enough legroom is a big deal, but most people aren't 6'5" like me and there aren't many train seats that are Ryanair bad.
Expectations for toilets on trains are so low that as long as they flush and you can't smell them from outside the cubicle then they're seen as adequate. Yes, the Voyagers do get moans...
1. It arrives and runs to time or very close (a minute or two late and no-one cares).
2. They can get a seat (or, for very short commuter services in peak, they're standing in moderate comfort and not crammed into someone's armpit).
3. The seat is comfortable. That includes things like a reasonable temperature, seat comfort, and more legroom than Ryanair.
Many of the things enthusiasts moan about like vibration from underfloor engines or bad window alignment are not generally a big deal with the paying public. Bench seats (like on the 142) are unpopular compared to "proper" seats. Not having enough legroom is a big deal, but most people aren't 6'5" like me and there aren't many train seats that are Ryanair bad.
Expectations for toilets on trains are so low that as long as they flush and you can't smell them from outside the cubicle then they're seen as adequate. Yes, the Voyagers do get moans...
northwichcat
Veteran Member
All of Northern's trains have smaller seats and less leg room than Ryanair and the introduction of 319s won't change that.
2. Someones armpit is infinetley better then sitting down and staring at someones crotch or arse as you do on a 378
3. Surely better leg room would lead to fewer seats - coaches are only so long.
Using 378s, which are perfectly fine for their role (except perhaps they need to be even longer than 5 cars!) every day I, when I do get a seat, manage perfectly well to avoid looking at someone's crotch or bum thank you very much. I think that comment says more about you than it does about 378s. Indeed London Underground has managed for a VERY long time with such seating too.....
319363 at Crewe on the 23rd of November.
319363 and 57308 by quinnsrailwayphotos, on Flickr
319363 and 57308 by quinnsrailwayphotos, on Flickr
319363 and 57308 by quinnsrailwayphotos, on Flickr
319363 and 57308 by quinnsrailwayphotos, on Flickr
Fincra5
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Any of them been repainted yet?
childwallblues
Established Member
Manchester77
Established Member
This Wednesday for a set swap?
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...14/12/03/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt
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Class377/5
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Keep your eye out for paths next week 
Yeah, looks quite tidy. As the original OP says over there it would be nice to see a driving car, and maybe we will soon if Class377/5's prediction is right!
Oh and someone has posted a nice video of 319361 charging through Winsford over on skyscraper City.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jdycS_YUc78
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158722
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Have any more TSGN 319s gone to Wolverton for repaints or refresh? AFAIK;
Relivered; 319001, 004-006, 009-011, 373, 426
Refreshed (PRM compliant); 319005, 006
Northern's 319362/365/366 also at Wolverton, of course.
Relivered; 319001, 004-006, 009-011, 373, 426
Refreshed (PRM compliant); 319005, 006
Northern's 319362/365/366 also at Wolverton, of course.
Class377/5
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The TSGN 319 have neither been refreshed nor just relivered, they are having C6 exams. 005/006 are the first to have completed work with PRM features due to various reasons. All 319s are going through this cycle and even Northern's will get the upgraded features in due time.
158722
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Ok, thanks for the clarification - in which case 005/006 are the only ones to have had the full C6 exam with PRM mods? Presumably the 3 Northern ones at Wolverton are getting this, plus I missed 443 off the list - that was reported as having gone to works?
bb21
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Can someone just sum up which ones have left Thameslink now for me please?
I have down so far 319361/2/3/5/6 and 319380.
I have down so far 319361/2/3/5/6 and 319380.
Unit no. - Current location (arrival date)
319361 - Allerton Depot (arrived 20/06)
319362 - Wolverton works (arrived 01/08)
319363 - Allerton Depot (arrived 11/09)
319364 - Wolverton works (arrived 14/09)
319365 - Wolverton works (arrived 14/09)
319380 - Allerton Depot (arrived 15/09)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Yes, that's right about 005/006 so far (but this is really for a seperate thread)
C6
319010 Arrived at Wolverton - 12/05/2014, Departed Wolverton - 14/06/2014
319001 Arrived at Wolverton - 02/06/2014, Departed Wolverton - 12/07/2014
319373 Arrived at Wolverton - 14/06/2014, Departed Wolverton - 12/07/2014
319004 Arrived at Wolverton - 14/07/2014, Departed Wolverton - 21/08/2014
319011 Arrived at Wolverton - 21/07/2014, Departed Wolverton - 21/08/2014
319009 Arrived at Wolverton - 11/08/2014, Departed Wolverton - 06/09/2014
C6 + PRM mods
319005 Arrived at Wolverton - 01/09/2014, Departed Wolverton - 01/11/2014
319006 Arrived at Wolverton - 08/09/2014, Departed Wolverton - 10/11/2014
319443 Arrived at Wolverton - 03/11/2014
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156441
Member
380 is on loan as a spare unit and will be the one that goes back on Wednesday.
childwallblues
Established Member
319363 left Allerton yesterday for Wolverton Works, and 319362 arrived at Allerton at 0530 this morning.
SprinterMan
Established Member
Anyone have any idea what the first NT service the 319s will work will be?
Adam
Adam
Whistler40145
Established Member
I dunno, need to get the wiring finished and energised first!
Class377/5
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Its less a loan unit now and more part of the Northern fleet.
Aictos
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Was going to have a trip on 005/006 today to see first hand the work that's been done and the train it was working got terminated at BFR so didn't get to sample them 
northwichcat
Veteran Member
A picture of a purple 319 carriage has appeared on the Northern Rail Twitter feed: https://twitter.com/northernrailorg/status/540120390090366976
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