Northern Class 331 East:West unit swap

[reecestrains]

107 could do Doncaster tomorrow though, but we'll see what allocations are in the morning.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Dec 2023 ==

We'll see what happens with that unit if and when it booked to go, been cancelled more than any of the other 331's so far!

 

[jonesy3001]

107 could do Doncaster tomorrow though, but we'll see what allocations are in the morning.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Dec 2023 ==

We'll see what happens with that unit if and when it booked to go, been cancelled more than any of the other 331's so far!

Polar on the wnxx forums says 107 is booked to go to allerton tomorrow.

 

[reecestrains]

See what happens in the morning.

 

[3973EXL]

STP 5Q36 1323 Neville Hill - Allerton
Mon to Wed 18-20/12

 

[reecestrains]

STP 5Q36 1323 Neville Hill - Allerton
Mon to Wed 18-20/12

If everything goes as planned, all 331/1's should be in the North West by next Wednesday. (Provided they don't have anymore problems with 107 or the locos!)

 

[jonesy3001]

What's moving from allerton on Monday if 007 is moving tomorrow?

Realtime Trains | 5Q17 0735 Allerton Depot to Neville Hill T&R.S.M.D | 18/12/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q17 0735 departure from Allerton Depot to Neville Hill T&R.S.M.D on 18/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[3973EXL]

What's moving from allerton on Monday if 007 is moving tomorrow?

Realtime Trains | 5Q17 0735 Allerton Depot to Neville Hill T&R.S.M.D | 18/12/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q17 0735 departure from Allerton Depot to Neville Hill T&R.S.M.D on 18/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

There's also a 0E17 path

 

[jonesy3001]

There's also a 0E17 path

The 5q path might be a mistake then, unless nothing moves tomorrow.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Have noticed the 4 cars have strayed onto Manchester work. Was on 331104 this morning from Blackpool to Manchester; initially thought it was going to be wedged after Preston but surprisingly wasn't too bad for a 4 car vice what would usually be 6.

Also saw 105 and 110 out and about too although did see two 3 cars out and about.

 

[reecestrains]

331007 on the way to Yorkshire...

Looks like 331107 is going North West today, if they don't have anymore problems!

 

[Geeves]

On the move 74 late so far! Going well

 

[reecestrains]

007 has made it into Leeds. The big question is... Is 107 going to go?

Hopefully no more problems this time!!!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Dec 2023 ==

107 has still not left as of 13:40.

Have a feeling they're having problems again...

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CANCELLED AGAIN, I don't believe it.

Four times now...

 

[darylyates17]

007 has made it into Leeds. The big question is... Is 107 going to go?

Hopefully no more problems this time!!!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Dec 2023 ==

107 has still not left as of 13:40.

Have a feeling they're having problems again...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Dec 2023 ==

CANCELLED AGAIN, I don't believe it.

Four times now...

The unit must have a problem for it to be cancelled 4 times for the same thing my suggestion now is leave this unit until last and get other 331s that aren’t as troublesome moved first.

 

[superkev]

007 has made it into Leeds. The big question is... Is 107 going to go?

Hopefully no more problems this time!!!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Dec 2023 ==

107 has still not left as of 13:40.

Have a feeling they're having problems again...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Dec 2023 ==

CANCELLED AGAIN, I don't believe it.

Four times now...

Total railway farse.
K

 

[reecestrains]

The unit must have a problem for it to be cancelled 4 times for the same thing my suggestion now is leave this unit until last and get other 331s that aren’t as troublesome moved first.

Agreed, hopefully they'll get 101, 106 and 112 over Monday-Wednesday and then deal with 107 afterwards.

I suggest 107 goes last too.

 

[darylyates17]

Agreed, hopefully they'll get 101, 106 and 112 over Monday-Wednesday and then deal with 107 afterwards.

I suggest 107 goes last too.

Other than 107 is it just 101,106 & 112 left to move over now keep loosing track of what’s left to be swapped.

 

[jonesy3001]

It was the loco that had the problems not the unit.

 

[Slug1]

It was the loco that had the problems not the unit.

What sources do you have to confirm this?

 

[jonesy3001]

What sources do you have to confirm this?

Had a reply on the wnxx forum in the northern refurbishment and future allocations part 6 thread.

 

[Slug1]

Had a reply on the wnxx forum in the northern refurbishment and future allocations part 6 thread.

Cheers!

 

[507 001]

Noticed a 4 car 331 leaving Manchester yesterday evening (around 1730) for Blackpool.

Unsurprisingly, this 4 vice 6 working was packed to the rafters.

I’m beginning to think that the 331/1s are a bit of a white elephant. They should all have been ordered as 3 cars IMO, considering both sides of the Pennines seem to be ideally served by 6 car trains.

 

[northwichcat]

Unusual 7 car formation on the 04:48 Manchester Airport to Blackpool this morning:

Realtime Trains | 1N50 0448 Manchester Airport to Blackpool North | 16/12/2023

Real-time train running information for 1N50 0448 departure from Manchester Airport to Blackpool North on 16/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Dec 2023 ==

I’m beginning to think that the 331/1s are a bit of a white elephant. They should all have been ordered as 3 cars IMO, considering both sides of the Pennines seem to be ideally served by 6 car trains.

Weren't the 4 car sets originally supposed to replace 323s on Glossop, Crewe and Stoke services?

 

[Mamorin]

Weren't the 4 car sets originally supposed to replace 323s on Glossop, Crewe and Stoke services?

Some 331s were supposed to do that, but I think for Glossop it was only going to be 3 car 331s as there was a plan for 6 car 331 operation on Glossop services in the future.

4 car 331s on Crewe stoppers would have made sense, not sure if Stoke stoppers were going to be 3 or 4 cars. If I had to bet Stoke stoppers would have been 4 car 331s.

Given the 4 car 331s have the same seating capacity as pre-PRM refurb 323s it would have made sense for the plan to have been for Glossop, Crewe and Stoke services to have gone to 4 car 331 operation.

 

[northwichcat]

Some 331s were supposed to do that, but I think for Glossop it was only going to be 3 car 331s as there was a plan for 6 car 331 operation on Glossop services in the future.

I don't know if they would have stretched far enough to allow pairs of 331s on the Glossop line. Remember Northern had to avoid planning to putting 3+2 seating on the routes they took over from TransPennine as part of their franchise agreement. Northern would have also had pairs of 323s or 319s as long term options (at that time).

The original plan also had a stopping service from Blackpool to Piccadilly extending to Macclesfield (as an additional service), with a semi-fast going to the airport.

 

[Mamorin]

Remember Northern had to avoid planning to putting 3+2 seating on the routes they took over from TransPennine as part of their franchise agreement.

Didn't know that was why the 195s and 331s had 2+2 seating.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Dec 2023 ==

I don't know if they would have stretched far enough to allow pairs of 331s on the Glossop line.

It was not a plan in 2015-2016, my bad the plan for 6 car 331 working is from 2020. So yes Glossop was planned for 331/1 working.

Plan for 6 car 331 working on Glossop line can be found here. Though I think the plan is long dead by now.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Dec 2023 ==

The original plan also had a stopping service from Blackpool to Piccadilly extending to Macclesfield (as an additional service)

Oh I remember that plan. Went nowhere which is kinda a shame.

 

[td97]

Unusual 7 car formation on the 04:48 Manchester Airport to Blackpool this morning:

Presumably the rear unit would have been locked out of use.

 

[Greybeard33]

Northern would have also had pairs of 323s or 319s as long term options (at that time).

The franchise agreement originally required Northern to release the 323s (to go to the West Midlands) as soon as the 331s were in service. There was never an option to operate the 319s in pairs. There were not enough of them and the platforms are not long enough.

The 331 order was supposed to provide sufficient 3-car units to work a 2-hourly service between Manchester Airport and Windermere. After Windermere electrification was cancelled more 195s were ordered and the 331s became available for 6-car workings to Blackpool.

 

[AMD]

This was the original plan that Arriva had for 195/331 route allocation (once all had been accepted), way back in the day.......

 

[northwichcat]

Oh I remember that plan. Went nowhere which is kinda a shame.

It's frustrating as North TPE services being diverted to Victoria was supposed to help free up paths for enhancements to services to Macclesfield, Buxton and Northwich. So while there may have been fewer connecting trains at Piccadilly, the enhanced local service would have made up for that. However, we're left with reduced TPE without the Northern enhancements.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Dec 2023 ==

Presumably the rear unit would have been locked out of use.

If there's a 6 car formation there's annoucements about the doors not being released on the rear carriage, or rear two carriages at certain stations. Presumably they could still do front 5 carriages only, even if it's a 7 car formation.

 

[Mamorin]

This was the original plan that Arriva had for 195/331 route allocation (once all had been accepted), way back in the day.......

Thanks for that, so Crewe was planned to get 331s way back in the day with Arriva Rail North. Makes sense since Piccadilly to Crewe was 319 operation by 2018 I think.

Stoke services and glossop line services were going to be a mix of 3 and 4 car services, my guess would have been 4 cars at peak and 3 cars off peak.

Would have been nice to have enhanced capacity on Northern's Stoke services at peak times pre-covid, as they were alway busy. Not sure how busy they are post-covid.

No idea what the length allocation for Macclesfield to Blackpool would have been at what times, since it never got started.