New Virgin Dvt and Mark 3's

[350401]

Does anyone know the seating capacity of the LCHS stock? More than Pendolino? Would guess so as only has 1 disabled area per class (Coach D and J) rather than 2 per class (B, D in standard), and the buffet is in one of the 1st coaches, not taking up Std seating room?

 

[dave_wm]

As far as I can remember, the capacity for a Mk3 set is;

4 x TSO = 4 x 76 = 304
1 x TSOD = 1 x 70 = 70
Total = 374 Standard Class (294 on a Pendolino)

1 x RFM = 1 x 18 = 18
2 x FO = 2 x 48 = 96
1 x FOD = 1 x 42 = 42
Total = 156 First Class (145 on a Pendolino)

In other words, yes it is!

I might have to go and have a look some time next week

 

[route:oxford]

As far as I can remember, the capacity for a Mk3 set is;

4 x TSO = 4 x 76 = 304
1 x TSOD = 1 x 70 = 70
Total = 374 Standard Class (294 on a Pendolino)

Is that the standard capacities? How many on the highest capacity HST Mk3?

 

[dave_wm]

I think the FGW HSTs seat 84 in each standard class carriage.

 

[The Snap]

You'd have thought to finish the set off nicely they would have pointed a 90 or to up in the new livery...:roll:

Shame!

Still looks stunning though.

 

[alex57601]

You'd have thought to finish the set off nicely they would have pointed a 90 or to up in the new livery...:roll:

I think that's for Virgin and DB Schenker to decide whether it should. It would look nice, but would it be worth painting a loco just to be used with matching stock once a week?

 

[37401]

I think that's for Virgin and DB Schenker to decide whether it should. It would look nice, but would it be worth painting a loco just to be used with matching stock once a week?

well true but at the moment its more than once a week and its been more than the "12 weeks" we were given

as for painitng it well, FSR have 90`s painted up and they work services on the GEML with NXEA every now and then, they could paint one and have the DB logo under the Driver side windows, Just because its in VT liv doesnt mean to has it only can work VT services

 

[The Snap]

well true but at the moment its more than once a week and its been more than the "12 weeks" we were given

as for painitng it well, FSR have 90`s painted up and they work services on the GEML with NXEA every now and then, they could paint one and have the DB logo under the Driver side windows, Just because its in VT liv doesnt mean to has it only can work VT services

That's what I was thinking. Surely one 90 in the new livery wouldn't hurt? When it's not being used on the VT services, it can do something else.

Whatever else it hauls, it will certainly make it look nicer!

 

[87031]

Like a previous poster i also hate Pendolinos and Voyagers but this livery looks superb on the Mk3s. Virgin could of done a couple of more sets with DVT and used em on Anglo scottish diagrams instead of Vomiters or Holyhead services.

 

[jopsuk]

I'd actually have thought that the new red DBS livery would go pretty well- not quite as well as full Virgin livery maybe, but still better than grey, maroon or (and you know it's going to happen at some point) First....

 

[MCR247]

Like a previous poster i also hate Pendolinos and Voyagers but this livery looks superb on the Mk3s. Virgin could of done a couple of more sets with DVT and used em on Anglo scottish diagrams instead of Vomiters or Holyhead services.

You reckon it could keep vomiter timings on BHM-GLC/EDB?
And yeah right, you think a Diesel loco could keep timings on the WCML up to Crewe? Or have a loco change at Crewe and still keep vomiter timings

 

[class377man]

You reckon it could keep vomiter timings on BHM-GLC/EDB?
And yeah right, you think a Diesel loco could keep timings on the WCML up to Crewe? Or have a loco change at Crewe and still keep vomiter timings

Don't worry, I'm sure regular passengers will be fine with older, slower, less safe stock, as long as the enthusiasts are happy :roll:

 

[87031]

I didnt actually say the same timings i just said instead of..

 

[MCR247]

I didnt actually say the same timings i just said instead of..

Network Fail have forked out a lot of money and passengers have had to put up with a load of s*** because of the upgrade, and now your saying you think it'd be better to go back ot the stock that was replaced :roll:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Don't worry, I'm sure regular passengers will be fine with older, slower, less safe stock, as long as the enthusiasts are happy :roll:

I completely agree

 

[87031]

Not entirely old stock but a few diagrams wouldnt do any harm......Maybe in another 6 months Virgin will have sorted out more problems but Network rail are to blame for some of the problems but not all of them. once the line is completely upgraded only is it fair to judge Virgin but theres no doubt some of the timings are just far too tight especially on Glasgow Services. It just sad too see Pendolinos and Voyagers everywhere you go i HATE them

 

[class377man]

Please tell me you aren't one of those people who hates literally everything that isn't an HST/loco-hauled... because I really get the impression that you are.

 

[87015]

You reckon it could keep vomiter timings on BHM-GLC/EDB?
And yeah right, you think a Diesel loco could keep timings on the WCML up to Crewe? Or have a loco change at Crewe and still keep vomiter timings

Maybe, but it would have enough seats so you wouldn't have to turn away an entire football team, because that generates just really good PR for the railway...

 

[The Planner]

Ive already replied to the nonsense on the other thread. I find it so odd that people hate progress on the railways and everything is looked at through rose tinted glasses. Its the Luddites all over again.

 

[87015]

Looked at the tmimgs for the 1200 Glasgow-Birmingham today
1hr8mins Glasgow - Carlisle (non-stop) vs 1hr15 mins 1994
1hr6mins Carlisle - Preston (Lanc stop) vs 1hr10 mins 1994
42mins Preston - Crewe (all stops) vs 46 mins 1994

So fifteen minutes saved - hardly world beating stuff is it.

 

[MCR247]

Not entirely old stock but a few diagrams wouldnt do any harm......Maybe in another 6 months Virgin will have sorted out more problems but Network rail are to blame for some of the problems but not all of them. once the line is completely upgraded only is it fair to judge Virgin but theres no doubt some of the timings are just far too tight especially on Glasgow Services. It just sad too see Pendolinos and Voyagers everywhere you go i HATE them

You're telling me that mark 3s with a DVT isnt old stock for scheduled passenger operation? And you mean using them instead of trains that are less than 10 years old? And yes, acutally a few diagrams could hurt, literally, as one of the diagrams where you have chose to swap a pendo for a MK3 LHCS set, could be the diagrams where something like Grayrigg happens, and the train ends up in a simalar state to Ladbroke Grove.

Looked at the tmimgs for the 1200 Glasgow-Birmingham today
1hr8mins Glasgow - Carlisle (non-stop) vs 1hr15 mins 1994
1hr6mins Carlisle - Preston (Lanc stop) vs 1hr10 mins 1994
42mins Preston - Crewe (all stops) vs 46 mins 1994

So fifteen minutes saved - hardly world beating stuff is it.

Yeah, but after all of the passengers have gone through with Network Fail upgrading the WCML, I think the passengers deserve at least decent, modern trains where they will be somewhat more protected if there was an accident.

 

[87031]

im certainly not against progress but i am against Virgin using crap trains that ok are safer but overall design and comfort wise just are not good enough in comparison to MK3s. A design based around he Mk3 similar to the Mk4 would of been much better not necessarily loco hauled just a better standard and a better enviroment for customers. Just because tilting trains where ordered it didnt mean that everything else didnt matter as long as they tilted, thats what it seems like with Virgin. Many posters on this site will agree progression is one thing but only if the whole package is right.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Please tell me you aren't one of those people who hates literally everything that isn't an HST/loco-hauled... because I really get the impression that you are.

Far from it i think the Turbostars 185/170s are great progress and are far better to travel on than Voyagers and Pendolinos. Also the 350s are quite rateable as are the 442s. I like railways in general but i dont like substandard rubbish thats on the WCML at the moment.

 

[87015]

Yeah, but after all of the passengers have gone through with Network Fail upgrading the WCML, I think the passengers deserve at least decent, modern trains where they will be somewhat more protected if there was an accident.

After all the upgrading I'd more hope they kept the track in a standard where trains don't go falling off... Ladbroke Grove and Grayrigg were totally different axccidents, I'm not saying the Pendo isn't more safe - thirty years later it has to be - but if you are worrying about the one in whatever tiniest chance the train is going to go for a roll down an embankment then you might as well stay at home. I take it you refuse to go on pacers then because they are clearly unsafe?

I'd rather have a mk3 (yes, even with a skoda) then a 220 then a 390 but I'm not going to argue that point with you as its gone round and round countless times in my opinion a Pendo is not the significant improvement in passenger saloon quality it should be over a Mk3.

 

[MCR247]

After all the upgrading I'd more hope they kept the track in a standard where trains don't go falling off... Ladbroke Grove and Grayrigg were totally different axccidents, I'm not saying the Pendo isn't more safe - thirty years later it has to be - but if you are worrying about the one in whatever tiniest chance the train is going to go for a roll down an embankment then you might as well stay at home. I take it you refuse to go on pacers then because they are clearly unsafe?

No I dont mind pacers, but what I'm saying, is that I dont think that non-enthusiasts would like to have 30 year old coachingh stock that cant keep timings when they could be having modern, fast, safe trains. I have travelled on a Pendolino before, and I bear in mind why people dont like them, but I love them, and I think VT made a great choice of trains

 

[87031]

After all the upgrading I'd more hope they kept the track in a standard where trains don't go falling off... Ladbroke Grove and Grayrigg were totally different axccidents, I'm not saying the Pendo isn't more safe - thirty years later it has to be - but if you are worrying about the one in whatever tiniest chance the train is going to go for a roll down an embankment then you might as well stay at home. I take it you refuse to go on pacers then because they are clearly unsafe?

I'd rather have a mk3 (yes, even with a skoda) then a 220 then a 390 but I'm not going to argue that point with you as its gone round and round countless times in my opinion a Pendo is not the significant improvement in passenger saloon quality it should be over a Mk3.

Well said your spot on there 87015......i think where both singing from the same hymn sheet!

 

[poshbakerloo]

How long are virgin gonna runs these? And also will they get any more?

 

[jopsuk]

They'll run the daily service until the Pendo damaged at Wembley returns (soon), then it'll just run on the Friday relief. I wouldn't expect them to get any more, as they're getting more complete Pendolinos (as well as cars to lenghthen existing sets).

 

[33056]

Well, 390 006 is back out now and the loco hauled is still running................

 

[LouJ]

Apparently this will be the last week of the 90 and refurbished Mk3 stock on the Euston to Birmingham route. 90029 is on the working today. Managed to keep within a couple of minutes right time arriving Brum 4 late at 1212.

 

[LondonLarry]

No I dont mind pacers, but what I'm saying, is that I dont think that non-enthusiasts would like to have 30 year old coachingh stock that cant keep timings when they could be having modern, fast, safe trains. I have travelled on a Pendolino before, and I bear in mind why people dont like them, but I love them, and I think VT made a great choice of trains

I don't think they're that bothered about the age of the rolling stock. As long as the train is punctual, is clean and recently refurbished - what does it matter?

 

[alex57601]

MCR247 is correct in everything he says.

It is not feasible to revert "a few diagrams" to locos + stock due to the slower top speed, and in particular on the Birmingham-Scotland services as it would simply not keep to time nor will it be able to go round corners as fast as 221s or 390s. You may be able to reduce the time deficit by short-forming, but then it would be as waste of time as you would be simply replacing a train of a similar capacity for a slower one.

And yes 15mins does make a difference - Eurostar shaved about 20mins off London-Paris/Brussels journey times when the first phase of HS1 opened which triggered an increase in passenger numbers.

The railway is not run for the benefit of trainspotters or for those who are stuck in the past, and some of the posters in this thread need a reality check.