There are 182 journeys a week; 96% punctuality equates to 7 journeys not being "punctual" so could include the 4 cancelled.Looking at their Twitter feed below Alex Hornby's 96% punctuality post are Tweets about 4 cancelled journeys in 4 sucessive days, albeit one due to a passenger taking ill. Are TransDev taking a leaf out of the rail operator's book and pulling entire journeys to make punctuality look better?
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New Transdev Cityzap services registered (and now cancelled)
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The numbers were not entirely my point, a causal user happening across the feed would see the daily cancellations and wonder if that 96% figure were really true. After all is a cancelled service included in the calculation or are Transdev cancelling services off other late running services to keep them off?
But moreover the causal user might see regular cancellations and decide not to risk the Zap because they know that the M62 has regular problems and don't want to be hanging around for over an hour for a service when there are much more regular trains. It is the timing of the tweet that is somewhat unfortunate .
Can you supply a link?
Basic VOSA details are at
https://www.vehicle-operator-licens...ch/find-registered-local-bus-services/browse/
The entries there give you no more info than I posted above.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licens...ch/find-registered-local-bus-services/browse/
The entries there give you no more info than I posted above.
Details of the changes have been posted http://lancashirebus.co.uk/news.jsp?newsID=2265
Serving all stops along Lindley Moor Road and some journeys commencing up to 10 minute earlier.
Serving all stops along Lindley Moor Road and some journeys commencing up to 10 minute earlier.
Flying Claret
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I see these buses nearly ever day on my commute to Uddersfield. Loadings look 'light' to say the least; does anyone know how long new routes like this take to become popular/ profitable?
AJW12
Member
The Cityzap's a funny one with loadings. Transdev claim it's getting more and more popular every month.
I think it does get some reasonable loadings but not for the reasons most would expect. I've used the service in the early morning (pre-9am arrivals) where the service runs two departures in an hour from Leeds, presumably to pick up everyone using it to commute. And they're absolutely dead - definitely no more than 3-4 people on them.
However later during the day when the concessionary passes become valid, they do get more usage and from some twitter pictures, some relatively busy loadings. I just think, like the York Cityzap, the service doesn't quite hit the market they hoped and hoover up all the train commuters, but it does get concessionary passengers. It makes me wonder how profitable they are based on that.
I think it does get some reasonable loadings but not for the reasons most would expect. I've used the service in the early morning (pre-9am arrivals) where the service runs two departures in an hour from Leeds, presumably to pick up everyone using it to commute. And they're absolutely dead - definitely no more than 3-4 people on them.
However later during the day when the concessionary passes become valid, they do get more usage and from some twitter pictures, some relatively busy loadings. I just think, like the York Cityzap, the service doesn't quite hit the market they hoped and hoover up all the train commuters, but it does get concessionary passengers. It makes me wonder how profitable they are based on that.
185143
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If it was bus or full price walk up tickets-and the early departure of the last bus isn't too early for you-then yes absolutely
185143
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I wouldn't even consider the train in that case then! Plenty of choice of seating on the bus, not so on the train.
{Copied from the Rossendale Transdev thread}
And for someone in Taddy or Bethnal Green exactly how many Manchester-Leeds City Zaps have you seen. And what of all the people who have tweeted pictures of reasonably full vehicles.
Seen quite a few, living in Taddy I'm often in Leeds or travelling across the M62 to Manchester. Not seen pictures of reasonably full buses since the weeks after the service started.
AJW12
Member
A bit of an underhand comment picking on location.
I've used the Manchester ZAP a few times this week, thanks to being on a client site there and staying in Leeds. And I honestly (the whole truth) have never been on a service which is busy:
I've used the Manchester ZAP a few times this week, thanks to being on a client site there and staying in Leeds. And I honestly (the whole truth) have never been on a service which is busy:
- Tuesday (7:30 from Leeds) - 4 people on the bus
- Tuesday (4:05 from Manchester) - 6 people on the bus
- Wednesday (7:30 from Leeds) - 3 people on the bus
- Wednesday (17:15 from Manchester) - 5 people on the bus
- Friday (8:15 from Leeds) - 4 people on the bus
- Friday (17:15 from Manchester) - 8 people on the bus
- Saturday (2:30 from Leeds) -5 people on the bus
- Since I stayed in Manchester through to the evening, I've booked the train back since the ZAP knocks off ridiculously early.
Yes those numbers seem about right for the times I've seen the cityzap. Don't think I've seen one with more than 8 on since the first 2 weeks
atraindriver
Member
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Alex 2901
Member
As part of my trip yesterday, I did the Cityzap from Manchester to Leeds, and I counted 19 people on there, and 15 of those paid fare, which isn't bad for 10:05. Would've found a 19:30 ex Leeds useful though, as I had to get a TPE service back to Piccadilly...
Would it be unfair because TPE "were there first", or because Rail should be protected from competition but bus shouldn't? I don't know about giveaways, but no one batted an eyelid when Metrolink targetted Stagecoach passengers at bus stops in Chorlton when that line first opened some years ago.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Given TPE is still a subsided rail franchise (even though if First meet their targets it won't be much longer) and Northern is subsided, I think Transdev would be right to question if a subsided operator should be handing out free tickets which takes passengers off a commercial bus service, if it were to happen.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Also passengers who are travelling by air between London and Manchester have been targeted by Virgin Trains handing out free tickets in the past.
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As a matter of interest can people be more specific about these free tickets outside Rail Stations and vouchers in the Metro - particularly where Manchester is concerned? I regularly catch the train into Piccadilly - albeit after the height of the morning peak, but I have never seen anyone giving away anything other than Lucozade, other unhealthy sugary confections or cheap Gym membership, either inside the Station or on the concourse outside. Further, I usually pick up a Metro and have never seen any adverts for anything bus based let alone cheap vouchers. Come to think of it, I've never seen cheap vouchers for anything.
Notwithstanding, I think overall publicity is very poor as apart from any promotion at rail stations, the "Twitterati" and bus enthusiasts on forums like this, I doubt anyone has ever heard of Cityzap in Gtr. M'cr - other than just periodically seeing these red/grey buses running up and down Oldham Road & Broadway.
Which would get us back to the argument about subsidised off-peak rail fares from Stations served by direct commercial buses - but that would soon get me a "Off Topic" warning, so I won't say any more......
Which of the following is likely to lead to the best modal share for public transport and fewest cars on the road? Ideally with evidence.
1. Local bus and rail networks competing with each other
2. Integrated bus and rail networks
3. Bus only system with no trains
1. Local bus and rail networks competing with each other
2. Integrated bus and rail networks
3. Bus only system with no trains
Firstly, "best" modal share is irrelevant - only fewer/est cars on the road is relevant. Otherwise, it depends on individual circumstances, but; 1. No.
2. Yes, but only if the following are achieved:
a. Fundamental change in both public and private transport economics;
b. massive improvement in punctuality and reliabiliity of all modes
c. Major investment in Interchange facilities whereby transferring passengers have the shortest possible walk between vehicles - preferably protected from the British Climate and conflict with private transport - both motorised and non motorised, both legally and illegally used.
d. Massive improvements in treatment for physical health problems.
3. Yes. - certainly in low car ownership areas - unless all four provisos in 2. are achieved. In reality, NONE will be achieved.
The ideal situation for maximum use of public transport would be for both bus and train to run with integrated ticketing and interchanges, but that's never going to happen.
It would be much better if ticketing and timetables were integrated between bus and rail, but not if integration means bus passengers spend half the journey going in the wrong direction in order to serve the station, and then wait on the platform longer than it would have taken to complete the trip by road.
Does that happen in countries with high public transport use and textbook integration?
northwichcat
Veteran Member
It's not as straight forward as that. Take Altrincham to Manchester - there's a 263 bus (commercial), Metrolink and Northern. However, the 3 aren't really comparable e.g. under normal circumstances no-one would use the slow 263 bus and if you're taking a bike with you then Northern is the only option. It also needs to be remembered the train doesn't start at Altrincham - from Hale, Knutsford, Lostock Gralam, Northwich, Delamere etc. there is no bus or Metrolink service to Manchester and the fare from Delamere can't be so expensive that it puts everyone off travelling and if you're travelling a shorter distance on the train then it makes sense that you pay a lower fare.
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