Presumably the Broadway and Ainley Top stops mean that the whole CityZap service has less than 15 miles between stops, and so BSOG can be claimed. National Express can also claim BSOG between Broadway and Ordsall.
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New Transdev Cityzap services registered (and now cancelled)
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Presumably the Broadway and Ainley Top stops mean that the whole CityZap service has less than 15 miles between stops, and so BSOG can be claimed. National Express can also claim BSOG between Broadway and Ordsall.
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I wonder if I misunderstood the stopping details. From memory, the 060 stops just north of jct 21 (M60) near a big school (whose name I forget), and I thought Cityzap stopped at the same stop. From that, I'm guessing you got lucky with a 81 or 81A. I would have thought the more sensible stop would have been near the centre of Chadderton, just south of Manchester Road. Although the 58 has recently been cut from Chaddy, it would at least give regular connections to Middleton and Royton, as well as Oldham itself.
PermitToTravel
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A large amount of ENCTS custom is probably a major component of the business plan - the service overall isn't an at all attractive way of travelling between Manchester and Leeds, but if it's free...
It may not be attractive to commuters, but it will appeal to many off-peak markets. Even if it goes up to £10 return in Summer (better weather and more daylight benefitting Daytrippers), it will still be considerably cheaper than the train. Also, whenever I have travelled by rail in or from (ie returning late afternoon) Yorkshire, I have felt intimidated as I seem to be the only sober person on the train!
It will generally be cheaper than NatEx "walk up" fares and there is the added attraction of not having to queue to buy your ticket beforehand. The only downside is no toilet on board.
I agree that it will appeal to leisure and off-peak travel, but there are two very big problems with that. One is that this is not the time of year I am doing lots of leisure trips that this service would be useful for and the other is that the product I might buy for leisure trips is a day ticket - or possibly their period return. They have just hiked the prices of both. So what exactly are they appealing to?
Stan Drews
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I think you might be. They both stop just to the south of the junction with the Middleton-Oldham Road, so the 59 offers frequent connections to both towns as well as being a short walk from the Chadderton Precinct.
That explains it. Much more sensible than NatEx.
I suspect the timing has been driven more by the unrest on the railways, as October would probably be the worst time to start a service otherwise. Whilst the removal of the Daytripper does look like an own goal, I would think most people would consider it largely for a "low risk" day out. By low risk, I mean any delays en route would only be a minor inconvenience if travelling to Leeds or Manchester for shopping or touristy things; rather than needing to make connections at Leeds for onward travel to York, Harrogate or Scarborough etc; or at Manchester for................well ok! Express/Limited stop coaches/buses from (Gtr) Manchester are virtually non-existant, so if originating in West Yorkshire, you probably would use the train anyway.
Non enthusiasts are hardly likely to keep tabs on fare changes/availability for services they do not normally use so for example someone who regularly travels Harrogate-Leeds will know that fare but not what the fare for a through journey to Manchester is. Previously if told it was Daytripper,which was only slightly more that the return to Leeds,they would have though it was a massive bargain whereas now being told its a Daytipper Plus that will not seem wrong given the distance covered.
Of course not, but for a Harrogate to Manchester return £15 is almost the same price as the train to a railcard holder. To most people it's also only £10 cheaper than the train, i.e. not even a 40% discount. Is it likely to attract people at half the frequency and near double the journey time? Harrogate to Manchester is only one case of course but it serves to demonstrate the point.
And soon railcards will be able to be had for 16-30 year olds. At the moment for me it is cheaper to use a railcards to get to Manchester than the Zap from Leeds but I book in advance managing to get returns for about £6 if booked a week before.
I forgot to say I made another "free" round trip today between Manchester and Leeds with the free travel with a train ticket offer. The driver recognised me and made a slightly dirty comment about how he would "check for next time if you can use these rail cards, as this seems too generous". He then let us off into a line of taxis which I understand is difficult because they were probably illegally parked, but it was a pretty poor place to let us off. I thought the bus hardly managed to make it up to 50 miles/hour going up the steep incline on the M62 too, which seemed slower than last time.
There were about 10 other passengers eastbound early afternoon and 4 westbound, on the 1730. Several had bought returns though which is in some contrast to my previous journeys where everyone has had an ENCTS. One person even got off at Ainley Top eastbound.
There were about 10 other passengers eastbound early afternoon and 4 westbound, on the 1730. Several had bought returns though which is in some contrast to my previous journeys where everyone has had an ENCTS. One person even got off at Ainley Top eastbound.
Par for the course I'm afraid. Minimum fare on Stagecoach Manchester is £1.50 (therefore £3 return) and Starbeck to Harrogate looks like a 1.8 mile journey which would be £2.50 single at least, and therefore £4.50 return (ie. DaySaver). Indeed, this higher rate applies to the 1.2 mile journey from my nearest stop to the nearest Superstore.
I suppose it does encourage people to just pay for a day ticket...
Anyway they've also kicked off work at some of the bus station stands to install power for the upcoming electric buses, and in the process managed to boot a couple of Connexion services to a temporary stop rather than the bus station itself...hmm!
http://www.harrogatebus.co.uk/news.jsp?newsID=2230
Anyway they've also kicked off work at some of the bus station stands to install power for the upcoming electric buses, and in the process managed to boot a couple of Connexion services to a temporary stop rather than the bus station itself...hmm!
http://www.harrogatebus.co.uk/news.jsp?newsID=2230
theblackwatch
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I can remember when it went up for 30p to 35p single! That was in the days when we had Harrogate Hoppa Ford Transit 'bread vans'. I suspect if there wasn't Connexions about, the fare would be higher.
Keeping on topic, £9.50 for a day out to Manchester from Starbeck was worth doing. Now it's £16.00, I'm more likely to decide to pay a bit more and go by train.
theblackwatch
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I am unlikely to do the trip five times a year though. (Or six now that I have a complimentary Daytripper Plus after a disastrous trip a couple of weeks ago! 
)
)theblackwatch
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I can't actually see an obvious expiry date - so in 10 years time...
When I queried it, I was told they had a 12 month validity. In ten years time, Daytripper Plus might not be valid on Cityzap!
Fares are higher on other routes - it was £3.20 return to Bilton or Jennyfield (now presumably £3.30) and that was to any point in the estates so including journeys of equivalent distance (or less) than that to Starbeck i.e. to the Hydro. Fares on Starbeck / Knaresborough services have always been lower than other services presumably to do with the presence of train.
theblackwatch
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I used the Connexions anology due to Wetherby being similarly cheap. I'm not sure what the fares are now, but I think Wetherby was £4 return from Harrogate, where there is an alternative option - but travel a couple of miles further to Thorp Arch Trading Estate, where there isn't the same 'competition', and the fare shot up to around £7.
I know what you are talking about. Quiye a steep rise in money there for an extra 3 miles!
Whilst this thread continues off thread its the same for both operators - go beyond Wetherby on Connexions and it jumps immediately from £3.80 to £6.60 return
On topic - Alex Hornby has just tweeted
Pleased to report our busiest week on @cityzapbus Leeds-Manchester last week. Thousands of customers, and growing week after week, even in January. And still with 96% of journeys running on time. All thanks to our amazing team
Pleased to report our busiest week on @cityzapbus Leeds-Manchester last week. Thousands of customers, and growing week after week, even in January. And still with 96% of journeys running on time. All thanks to our amazing team
I find it hard to believe it was busier than the 1st week
Looking at their Twitter feed below Alex Hornby's 96% punctuality post are Tweets about 4 cancelled journeys in 4 sucessive days, albeit one due to a passenger taking ill. Are TransDev taking a leaf out of the rail operator's book and pulling entire journeys to make punctuality look better?
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