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New TPE Train Discussion

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northwichcat

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442's and 37/57/67/68? <D

One thing we do know is First won the TPE franchise on the basis they would introduce 220 brand new carriages so any loco-hauled solution using existing carriages will be temporary otherwise First will have breached their franchise agreement.
 
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DarloRich

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One thing we do know is First won the TPE franchise on the basis they would introduce 220 brand new carriages so any loco-hauled solution using existing carriages will be temporary otherwise First will have breached their franchise agreement.

brand new to whom? ;)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
13 5 car intercity style diesel powered trains (tbc)

Hmm.... The wording is a little ambiguous...

I know where i can get you 13 x 5 car intercity style diesel powered trains ;)
 

humbersidejim

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brand new to whom? ;)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I know where i can get you 13 x 5 car intercity style diesel powered trains ;)

I don't, do tell...

If you're referring to 180s/HSTs, surely these won't be availalble within the timeframe?
 

Greybeard33

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One thing we do know is First won the TPE franchise on the basis they would introduce 220 brand new carriages so any loco-hauled solution using existing carriages will be temporary otherwise First will have breached their franchise agreement.
And if TPE does not have additional capacity in service by Dec 2017, First will be in breach of the franchise agreement. If the new carriages cannot be delivered in time, is First likely to hire in old stock temporarily to bridge the gap, or just try to persuade DfT to agree to amend the agreement?
 

northwichcat

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Latest rumour appears to be after First started negotiations on plan B, plan A (CAF) started being more willing to negotiate.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Latest rumour appears to be after First started negotiations on plan B, plan A (CAF) started being more willing to negotiate.

Of course, First now needs another set of rolling stock for its London-Edinburgh services.
It's hard to see any other solution but AT300s, based at Hitachi's ECML depots like its TPE trains.
If it wasn't obvious before, it demonstrates the value of supplier maintenance rather than leaving it to the individual TOCs.
That's why a CAF solution for TPE seems very odd.
 

northwichcat

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From what Tony Miles' has posted on wnxx it sounds like an announcement will be made before the end of the month and it's likely to be the original CAF plan when it's announced.
 

gimmea50anyday

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First Edinburgh is new build and is likely to be AT300's. There's plenty of lead time for that service (5 years) so awaiting a place in the queue isn't an issue. The fact TPE need theirs in under 4 is however a bigger issue, if CAF want the business they are going to have to come up with something. Surely subcontracting maintenance to a third party (Siemens would be a logical choice) Can't be that difficult if a multi million pound contract is up for grabs...

Otherwise plan B being more AT300's is looking promising especially as the lessor for AT300's is taking a huge interest....


I have however said it several times already as much as both ANONMOUSE and I and maybe even KWVR45 savour the possibility, 442's being hailed or shoved are out of the running, and TPE management have also stated the pretendolino is also out of the running despite it being mentioned in Rail AND Modern Railways

Who's to say it won't be used in a training perspective tho....
 
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dgl

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Nah, that's how CAF are able to get the carriages out quickly as they will just acquire all the disused 442's, refurbish them (to original NSE spec), remove the traction equipment stick CAF badges on them, change the data plates and hope no-one notices.
That's the problem with the maintence contract, as they didn't build them they don't know how to repair them if something goes wrong.
 
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Clarence Yard

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The "car park watchers" report a lessening of activity at the various offices and more smiling faces than furrowed brows.

Apparently, barring any last minute hiccups, we are only days away from a (plan A) announcement.
 

theblackwatch

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From what Tony Miles' has posted on wnxx it sounds like an announcement will be made before the end of the month and it's likely to be the original CAF plan when it's announced.

Although this announcement seems to have been 'a few days away' or 'next week' for the past month! :roll:
 

northwichcat

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Although this announcement seems to have been 'a few days away' or 'next week' for the past month! :roll:

The original plan was to announce everything on 1st April but with the reported CAF issues the Press Release they circulated on 31st March to journalists ahead of the new franchise launch only mentioned a batch of 5 car bi-mode Hitachi AT300s.
 

jshaw

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Sorry if this has already been mentioned. But am I right in thinking TPE are getting:

19x 5 Car Hitatchi Class 802

13x 5 Car CAF loco hauled sets hauled by DRS class 68s.

12x 5 Car CAF EMUs. For use on the WCML and the proposed Liverpool-Glasgow, replacing the 10 class 350s.

185s are said to be staying for the Manchester-Cleethorpes route.

I may be wrong but this is out of todays railways.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Sorry if this has already been mentioned. But am I right in thinking TPE are getting:
19x 5 Car Hitatchi Class 802
13x 5 Car CAF loco hauled sets hauled by DRS class 68s.
12x 5 Car CAF EMUs. For use on the WCML and the proposed Liverpool-Glasgow, replacing the 10 class 350s.
185s are said to be staying for the Manchester-Cleethorpes route.
I may be wrong but this is out of todays railways.

Only the first item of that list is confirmed by TPE, and presumably the last (29x185s), although they will turn up on more than the Cleethorpes services.
 
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Harbornite

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Sorry if this has already been mentioned. But am I right in thinking TPE are getting:

19x 5 Car Hitatchi Class 802

13x 5 Car CAF loco hauled sets hauled by DRS class 68s.

12x 5 Car CAF EMUs. For use on the WCML and the proposed Liverpool-Glasgow, replacing the 10 class 350s.

185s are said to be staying for the Manchester-Cleethorpes route.

I may be wrong but this is out of todays railways.

Some of the 185's are due to be sent elsewhere according to some sources.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Some of the 185's are due to be sent elsewhere according to some sources.

Some are definitely staying (the numbers staying/leaving are mentioned in the main franchise thread) for South TPE and the North TPE semi-fasts. Where the others go is still open to speculation. I'd rather they all stay to improve capacity on the semi-fasts but extending the likes of Slaithwaite and Deighton for 6x23m stock might be overkill if the true stoppers come back after the wires go up. Electric stoppers between Huddersfield and Leeds and Manchester would probably be fine with single 319/321s for the forseeable future.
 

edwin_m

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I suppose it's into the next franchise so nobody really knows, but I'd suggest the TP stoppers after full electrification should be something with a bit more adhesive weight than a 319. I presume the new CAF EMUs have two third of axles motored like a 323, which might make quite a difference when trying to get away from stops on 1:100 gradients with a fast just behind.
 

IanXC

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Can I remind members that this thread is entitled "Any news on TPE ordering their new trains" rather than "Options for 185 cascades". I know there is little news for now but can we remain a little closer to topic please!
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Unknown at the moment. However I doubt it will be to the south simply because of where the maintenance facilities (ie York and Ardwick Manchester).

If it were my choice how about an extra South Transpennine service between Doncaster and Manchester for extra capacity on that route. (Or perhaps extended to Lincoln or how about from Sheffield via Retford Low Level?)

Noting the Lincoln part of your posting, without going too much off-thread, can anyone give any updated information about any planned future service provision to this station and also about the signal box coverage of the lines to and from that particular railway station.
 

Bantamzen

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What/where?

There's an announcement on TPE's site:

http://www.tpexpress.co.uk/news/2016/05/more-new-trains-for-the-north-and-scotland/

More new trains for the North and Scotland

20 May 2016

TransPennine Express (TPE), the intercity rail operator for the North and Scotland is delighted to today announce the purchase of a further 126 brand new carriages.

TPE will deliver an investment of more than £230m in 25 brand new five-carriage trains which will be in service across the network by 2019.

The new franchise began on 1 April 2016 with a commitment to invest more than £500m in the rail network and today’s announcement follows an earlier agreement to buy 19 new five-carriage bi-mode (capable of operating by diesel and electric power) trains from northern based manufacturer, Hitachi Rail Europe.

The new train fleets will provide an extra 13m seats a year, which is enough to fill the Old Trafford stadium more than 150 times.

Today’s agreement will see the introduction of two new fleets, which are 12 five-carriage Civity UK InterCity electric trains financed by Eversholt Rail and 13 sets of five-car InterCity carriages financed by Beacon Rail Leasing.

The Civity UK InterCity electric trains will operate between Manchester and Liverpool to Glasgow and Edinburgh whilst the InterCity carriages will operate initially between Liverpool and Newcastle.

In total, the 44 brand new state of the art trains will supplement TPE’s current fleet and will more than double capacity on all intercity routes across the North and into Scotland, by 2019. The vast majority of services will operate with at least five carriages as opposed to the current three.

TPE’s Managing Director, Leo Goodwin said: “This is great news for our customers and we are delighted to have concluded the deals that will bring much needed and much wanted extra carriages across our network.

“This will enable us to transform the customer experience over the life of our franchise and our three new train fleets will form a key part of this improvement.

“Whether travelling to work, for business or leisure, our services are going to offer more seats, improved connectivity and a higher standard of comfort. The on-board experience will be second to none and we will provide customers with a real alternative to the car and congested road network.”

Investment in new fleets will mean every train operated by TPE by will have; free Wi-Fi and media servers allowing customers to stream TV shows, films and entertainment, advanced on-board customer information, modern interior with spacious seating, air conditioning and power sockets at every seat.

The new trains will allow services to operate at speeds of up to 125mph, cutting the journey times between key towns and cities across our regions.

Councillor Liam Robinson, Chair of the Rail North Limited Board said: “To support long-term economic growth and prosperity, the North needs a modern, high-quality rail service connecting towns and cities.

“We need a lot more capacity with new routes and additional journey opportunities, seven days a week. Passengers want an end to overcrowding and an improved travel experience.

“This commitment from TPE to introduce another, much needed, 25 brand new trains will help to deliver on these requirements. The capacity improvement on state of the art, intercity standard trains is exactly what is needed and will help drive the North forward, supporting improved connectivity across the region.

Following a comprehensive procurement process, Spanish manufacturer, Construcciones y Auxiliar de Ferrocarriles (CAF), was successful in securing the contract to build both the new EMU trains and the new loco-hauled carriages. No UK manufacturer took part in the competitive tender process.

The bi-mode AT300 trains will be built in County Durham by Hitachi Rail Europe.

CAF already provides trains for other operators across Europe and is currently manufacturing fleets for the Caledonian Sleeper and Arriva Northern franchises.

The Class 68 diesel locomotives that will haul our new InterCity carriages between Liverpool and Newcastle are owned by Beacon Rail and will be leased from Direct Rail Services (DRS).

Most of the required Class 68 engines are already built and by buying state of the art carriages to be pulled by these engines, much needed additional capacity can be introduced quickly to the network.

The new fleets will be delivered during 2018 and 2019.

CAF will provide technical support and spares for both fleets. Maintenance will be undertaken by Alstom at its facilities at Longsight (Manchester), Edge Hill (Liverpool) and Polmadie (Glasgow).

Antonio Campos, CAF, S.A. International Commercial Director for Western Europe said: "I am delighted to work with FirstGroup to provide new modern and comfortable trains for the North of England. This is a fantastic opportunity for CAF to strengthen its presence in this region and consolidate its position as one of the leading manufacturers of trains for the UK market. We are delighted to have our total product range such as the Sleepers, Coaches, EMUs, DMUs and Trams operating throughout the UK rail network."

Richard Garner, CAF. S.A. Business Development Director for UK and Ireland said: "Following on from CAF's recent order for the supply of 281 passenger carriages to Arriva Rail North, this order reinforces CAF's presence in Northern England. These new contracts further support the economy of the Northern Powerhouse including the creation of 50 new jobs. CAF will invest in a new central logistics hub and as an established supplier into the UK market; CAF now has a solid economic basis for further increasing its footprint in the UK.”

Mary Kenny, Chief Executive Officer of Eversholt Rail Group, said: “Eversholt Rail is delighted to be supporting this expansion of the TransPennine Express network by investing £120m in its new fleet of CAF Civity trains. These trains will bring major improvements for passengers on services between Manchester and Scotland. We look forward to working closely with our partners to introduce the new fleet into service over the next three years.”

Ted Gaffney, Chief Executive Officer of Beacon, said: “Beacon is very pleased to provide a locomotive hauled coach solution to TransPennine Express. This transaction is in line with our strategy, growth ambitions, and our commitment to providing state of the art rolling stock to the UK market.”

Chris Connelly, Commercial and Business Development Director of DRS said: "DRS are delighted to be part of this exciting venture. With unmatched environmental credentials the Class 68 locomotive is already delivering industry leading levels of performance, reliability and fuel efficiency. We are proud that these highly innovative locomotives together with our team of technical experts will be supporting TPE in delivering an exceptional product to the customer.”

Henrik Anderberg, Acting MD Alstom UK & Ireland, said “This is an exciting day, not just for rail users, but for everyone interested in the jobs and apprenticeships this contract will allow Alstom to create. We are a world expert in train maintenance. Most famously in the UK we look after the Pendolino trains we built for Virgin’s West Coast service, but we also maintain a whole range of trains built by other companies worldwide. Now, with this contract, and our Widnes Technology Centre and Training Academy that received planning permission last week, Alstom can deliver another 25 new permanent jobs, and a whole host of training and apprenticeship opportunities for local people.”
 
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