New Pacers

[ainsworth74]

I think by the time you've got round to modifying a PPM to be suitable to take over from a Pacer then you might as well have just bought something that was already designed for the role.

 

[route:oxford]

I would be surprised if it would fit in the UK loading gauge.

Whilst it's not the whole element of loading gauge, they have sold a model to Switzerland with walk-through power car that are 2650mm wide.

Stadler seem to be able to take the required specifications and build to order.

 

[starrymarkb]

This is a good example of that
http://www.stadlerrail.com/media/uploads/ZZB1009d_zb7tlg_D.pdf

A 7 coach narrow gauge regional unit complete with Buffet and Panoramic windows extending into the roof, capable of climbing a 1 in 8 gradient with rack gear for the Zentralbahn, a 70 mile private network (SBB has a stake from the sale of the Brunigbahn to the Luzern-Stans-Engleberg)

Total Production Run - 4 units!....

 

[Peter Sarf]

Probably easier to de-engine them, turn the cabs into loos and slap them in the middle of existing units. I know of a pair of Driving Motor coaches going spare that fit the bill - sloping front, oodles of power.

If the bodies are so strong then put a BIG diesel engine in them and make the Pendolinos into Bi-Mode trains.

Target practice for the Army.

Hen coops.

Scrap metal has quite a high value these days.

 

[The Decapod]

Britain is a group of islands, and it is actually made up of 4 countries (England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland.)

Technically, no! Great Britain is a geographical name for the island that consists of England, Scotland and Wales - plus associated small islands like the Hebrides, Isle of Wight etc. The UK (United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland) is the name of our nation state. England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are not countries, but 'states within the UK - a bit like Bavaria and Lower Saxony are states in Germany. Second thoughts, I suppose it depends what one means by 'country' !

 

[Crossforth]

Technically, no! Great Britain is a geographical name for the island that consists of England, Scotland and Wales - plus associated small islands like the Hebrides, Isle of Wight etc. The UK (United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland) is the name of our nation state.

And then you have the British Isles which makes up England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland and all the other 6000 islands

 

[Oswyntail]

Technically, no! Great Britain is a geographical name for the island that consists of England, Scotland and Wales - plus associated small islands like the Hebrides, Isle of Wight etc. The UK (United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland) is the name of our nation state. England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are not countries, but 'states within the UK - a bit like Bavaria and Lower Saxony are states in Germany. Second thoughts, I suppose it depends what one means by 'country' !

And, just to stir up some controversy, Wales and NI have never had independent status as "countries" or "states"

 

[Vulcan]

If you go on the Parry People Movers' website, you'll see they are all ready to take orders for new projects, and could probably design a bigger, faster PPM to do pacer work if they got an order.

 

[WatcherZero]

They have been shopping round for a couple of years the PPM175 concept. Similar capacity to a 153, 5 meters longer, 30cm thinner with 5-15 extra seats. Though with only a 50mph max speed that severely limits applications.

A flywheel has great efficency for constant low energy demands in the region of a 50mph vehicle but its not really suited for 75-100mph which would require triple the flywheel rotation speed or a much heavier flywheel.

Edit: Just looked the company up, market capitalisation of 0.79m, but from its last balance sheet its very close to insolvency, higher debts falling due within 1 year (£1m) than its assets (450k) and cash in the bank (just £3000).

 

[Peter Mugridge]

They have been shopping round for a couple of years the PPM175 concept. Similar capacity to a 153, 5 meters longer, 30cm thinner with 5-15 extra seats. Though with only a 50mph max speed that severely limits applications.

Maybe a couple of these for the Lymington branch then....!!

Can PPMs operate in multiple?

Edit: Just looked the company up, market capitalisation of 0.79m, but from its last balance sheet its very close to insolvency, higher debts falling due within 1 year (£1m) than its assets (450k) and cash in the bank (just £3000).

What's the date on this report? I'm not registered with the Companies House website...

 

[WatcherZero]

Mid 2010 6 month trading update.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Thanks.

Are they getting any hire income from these loans to heritage lines of the prototype? That's been announced more recently than June 30th so I'm wondering if it's enough to make a difference?

 

[Vulcan]

Although its likely that a PPM could replace a Pacer, realistically it aint gonna happen is it?

The fleet of Pacers are still effectively fulfilling their purpose, They don't constantly suffer overcrowding, and these new coaches we're getting would be better used strenthening things such as 185s and Voyagers then replacing trains which are basicly still ok. Just my opinion, mind.

 

[Bevan Price]

Although its likely that a PPM could replace a Pacer, realistically it aint gonna happen is it?

The fleet of Pacers are still effectively fulfilling their purpose, They don't constantly suffer overcrowding, .

Yes they do. Look at Manchester Victoria / Salford Crescent during peak hours. Look at Liverpool Lime St. arrivals & departures at peak hours, and even off-peak on many days (especially during school holidays)

Bevan

 

[Vulcan]

Yes they do. Look at Manchester Victoria / Salford Crescent during peak hours. Look at Liverpool Lime St. arrivals & departures at peak hours, and even off-peak on many days (especially during school holidays)

Bevan

During peak hours any train running into a major city gets busy. But when have you seen a quiet Voyager (for example) at any time of the day?

 

[Arriva158]

Are they still planning on making a PPM with bogies for longer distance travelling? People are already complaining about the PPM on the stourbridge branch because of the "riding standard" they have to live with on every piece of track compared to the 153 beforehand!

 

[Sparks807Evo]

If they built any more of those **** pacers, I shall be absolutely furious as they are terrible! Bombardier or Siemens would be a good choice as they can actually build trains.

 

[route:oxford]

If they built any more of those **** pacers, I shall be absolutely furious as they are terrible! Bombardier or Siemens would be a good choice as they can actually build trains.

Oh, I don't know.

If Alexanders were to design and build a new Pacer, I'm sure they'd be a big improvement on their model from 30 years ago.

 

[Vulcan]

If they built any more of those **** pacers, I shall be absolutely furious as they are terrible! Bombardier or Siemens would be a good choice as they can actually build trains.

Oh yeah 'cos Voyagers are brilliant.

It seems to me that now people on here are just assuming that pacers are no good because other users say they are. I'm also sure there are people on here complaining about them who live in places which are not blessed with Pacers or have never actually travelled on one.

Just a thought.

 

[142094]

It seems to me that now people on here are just assuming that pacers are no good because other users say they are. I'm also sure there are people on here complaining about them who live in places which are not blessed with Pacers or have never actually travelled on one.

More than likely you are correct.

 

[Eng274]

I'd say the only things wrong with the Pacer class is that time isn't on their side; old usually = crap to a layman passenger. And there aren't enough of them, or rather not enough DMUs in general.

I'd place a week's wage that many commuters slate Pacers for being ancient and decrepit, while sitting on a 150.. or better still on a HST!

 

[danfitz123]

I think that pacers are a means to an end. They get you to your destination. Ok it won't be in luxury but I wouldnt call them bad.

 

[WatcherZero]

Oh yeah 'cos Voyagers are brilliant.

It seems to me that now people on here are just assuming that pacers are no good because other users say they are. I'm also sure there are people on here complaining about them who live in places which are not blessed with Pacers or have never actually travelled on one.

Just a thought.

However for some of us we rarely travel on anything but daily pacers, only the odd sprinter and perhaps once or twice a year a 185 or a pendolino.

 

[Kingfisher200262]

If they built any more of those **** pacers, I shall be absolutely furious as they are terrible! Bombardier or Siemens would be a good choice as they can actually build trains.

They may be good, but they would probably be unaffordable on the routes that Pacers currently operate.

Let's say, for the sake of argument that a Pacer vehicle costs £3k a month to lease and a 172 vehicle, £10k a month to lease (both figures are, I think conservative, but the differential is about right). If a vehicle has 70 seats and operates at 40% average utilisation through the day (so, 28 seats utilised), then over a 16 hour railway day, each 172 utilised seat costs £0.55 / hour more than the Pacer. On a well known franchise in the north, where the average ticket price is £2.80 odd for an average journey time of half an hour or so, this means a fare uplift of £0.29, or 10%.

So, the question is, would the average rail traveller accept an uplift of 10% on the ticket price, to replace a Pacer with a 172? Remember, this won't solve overcrowding, but will replace one old vehicle with another new one.

 

[Vulcan]

However for some of us we rarely travel on anything but daily pacers, only the odd sprinter and perhaps once or twice a year a 185 or a pendolino.

Oh the joys of living on the Cumbrian coast! (I'm guessing thats where you are by the trains you use, am I right?)

 

[142094]

Oh the joys of living on the Cumbrian coast! (I'm guessing thats where you are by the trains you use, am I right?)

Cumbrian Coast doesn't see Pacers too often these days.

 

[Vulcan]

I can't think of anywhere else in Pendolino and 185 territory where Pacers run though, unless he commutes between Carnforth and Lancaster on the Leeds train every day.

 

[WatcherZero]

Commute daily Wigan-Manchester with occasional trips every year to Birmingham (family), Edinburgh (holiday) and the Lake District (for residential training/staff bonding)

 

[tbtc]

Commute daily Wigan-Manchester

Out of interest (going off at a tangent), what share of the Wigan services are Pacer run these days?

The Southport - Airport runs generally aren't, but what about the others?

 

[Kneedown]

Oh yeah 'cos Voyagers are brilliant.

It seems to me that now people on here are just assuming that pacers are no good because other users say they are. I'm also sure there are people on here complaining about them who live in places which are not blessed with Pacers or have never actually travelled on one.

Just a thought.

As i Driver who regularly works 153's, but has only been on Pacers when route refreshing around Manchester, my opinion is that 153's were only built to make Pacers look good!
Okay, so they bounce a bit, but the cab environment is pretty decent when compared to a 153 or indeed a 156. That counts for a lot on a long day.