New Pacers

[TrainBrain185]

Just a heads up that plans are being made to retire a small number of Pacer Units to become prototypes for a new generation of Raibus extending their lives up to a further 25 years of operation at least, some which are to be run on lease to a major European Rail Network. Due to the robustness of their support underframes, plans are being made up to totally re-engineer the complete running units. Plans drawn up include replacing the power unit to the latest Tier 5 emmission IVECO lean burn 240bhp Eco 9 Liter Engines. VoithTransmissions removed to be replaced by AC propulsion Axle End mounted Hybrid Motors on the prototypes. More flexible semi-steerable axles with air suspension all round. One Class 142 and one Class 143 to be the first test units to recieve a European Builder supplied "Bolt On" sloping fronted body with a greater impact compliance to the existing support underframes after complete re-engineering has been dealt with.

 

[mumrar]

Is there a link or source for the information?

 

[Vulcan]

Where would the driver go if the front sloped??

 

[Bittern]

"New Pacer's" means "New Pacer is". The apostrophe has no place in that title unless you mean to say "New Pacer is".

 

[WatcherZero]

With that much work there wouldnt be anything left of the original apart from the passenger compartment......Ironic.

 

[jopsuk]

Seriously, source? Or is this too much cheese before bedtime?

 

[Drsatan]

The Pacers are pretty worn out anyway so it would be more economic to build new multiple units for any sort of trial.

Anyway, why would anyone want 'Pacer Mk2' given the flaws in their design?

 

[the sniper]

Maybe I'll have to eat my words, but I'm guessing this is TrainBrain185's idea of a joke.

 

[Eng274]

coal wagon subframe with a Plaxton Pointer body..?

 

[Vulcan]

"New Pacer's" means "New Pacer is". The apostrophe has no place in that title unless you mean to say "New Pacer is".

Not defending TrainBrain185 at all, and not wanting to single you out (but doing it anyway) and as we're in a mood for nit-picking...

Your signature is not correct. Britain is a group of islands, and it is actually made up of 4 countries (England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland.)

Nothing personal, but I've been itching to get it out there for ages.

P.S. Apostrophe abuse annoys me too! Especially when people put them on the end of words that end in 's' even when singular.

 

[Marklund]

Your signature is not correct. Britain is a group of islands, and it is actually made up of 4 countries (England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland.)

Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom, but not (Great) Britain, though it is part of the British Isles, which encompasses the island of Great Britain, the island of Ireland, and 6000 others.

 

[Vulcan]

Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom, but not (Great) Britain, though it is part of the British Isles, which encompasses the island of Great Britain, the island of Ireland, and 6000 others.

I like how my incorectness prompted you to join the forum especially! Correct as you are

 

[Marklund]

I joined yesterday
I only mean to lurk, but couldn't resist posting on that one.

 

[Oracle]

The British Isles incorporates the Channel Islands and Isle of Man as well.

No doubt the nationalists in Kernow (Cornwall) argue that their Duchy is also a Kingdom.

That aside, sounds like a heck of a lot of work to recycle...surely it would be cheaper to new-build?

 

[Vulcan]

Fair enough, welcome to the forum as well.

 

[lm321412]

Sounds a bit like the Class 424 idea which never took off either...

 

[The_Stig]

Hmmm, all this 're-engineering' talk. Surely it would be cheaper to purchase new units altogether (new units that will have manufacturers warranties) than change everything bar the coach body.

 

[Eng274]

Hmmm, all this 're-engineering' talk. Surely it would be cheaper to purchase new units altogether (new units that will have manufacturers warranties) than change everything bar the coach body.

two words - class 172 :P

the point is valid though, its better to buy new than modify stock that is already approaching it's use-by date.

 

[Vulcan]

Unless he comes up with some evidence (i.e. a link to a well known and respected railway news website), I think this is another case of someone's opinion being told as fact.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Hmmm, all this 're-engineering' talk. Surely it would be cheaper to purchase new units altogether (new units that will have manufacturers warranties) than change everything bar the coach body.

...or it could be the old railway trick of getting new stuff built during a financial clampdown on new builds by calling them "rebuilds" when only a single nut and bolt of the original is included in the new item...

 

[gareth taylor]

The 142s must be ready for the scrap heap. They are definately past their sell by date.

 

[Kingfisher200262]

The fact that by the third post, the conversation has changed the subject to that of grammatical errors, highlights the level of interest in Pacers.

This proposal sounds expensive and pointless, but if an alternative use and customer for Pacers can be found, it will be a welcome opportunity to free up some space on the network for some proper trains.

 

[Crossforth]

I might be tempted to believe this if the OP had either

a) given a source or

b) said (for example) 150s to be rebuilt rather than Pacers

I'm currently very sceptical

 

[142094]

I really don't see any of them being rebuilt, possibly shipped of a la the 141s to some funny country. However I still think we'll have them on our shores for another good 10 years or so at least.

 

[starrymarkb]

Would rebuilding work out cheaper then these?

[youtube]ZfKH3NPpSE0[/youtube]

I believe Arriva's Dutch batch came in at about £1.2mil per unit.

Stadler do small and affordable custom builds for the Swiss private railways, so a UK version shouldn't be too expensive if ordered in bulk...

 

[route:oxford]

I believe Arriva's Dutch batch came in at about £1.2mil per unit.

Stadler do small and affordable custom builds for the Swiss private railways, so a UK version shouldn't be too expensive if ordered in bulk...

The Stadler units are attractive.

When they've been mentioned before, there have been comments about the suitability of articulated stock and the internal dimensions of the passenger corridor in the power unit (when narrowed to meet UK gauge)..

But taking their general principal, it wouldn't be hard to adapt...

Just need to build 5 (non articulated) standardised units.

Standard Trailer, with Disabled accommodation & Loo
Standard Trailer
Standard DVT
Driven Power Unit
Secondary Power Unit.

The Diesel Unit "power at wheel" is recorded as 600kw on the website, this is equivalent to 800 bhp - so enough to haul 3 lightweight 20 metre trailers (if you compare with Pacer power), but probably more likely 2 to 2.5 trailers per power unit.

A narrower internal power unit corridor wouldn't be such an issue if it were only on-train staff that passed through it.

There would, of course, be an electric variant of the power car, all coaches built with a traction power bus as standard.

Trains could be formed as follows...

DPU-SDVT (56 Seats)
DPU-STDL-SDVT (108 Seats)
DPU-SPU-STDL-ST-ST-DVT or DPU-STDL-ST-ST-ST-DPU (220 Seats)
DPU-SPU-STDL-ST-ST-STDL-DVT or DPU-STDL-ST-ST-ST-STDL-DPU (270 Seats)

DPU-SPU-STDL-ST-ST-ST-ST-ST-ST-ST-ST-STDL-SPU-DPU (552 Seats)

You get the general idea...

 

[RobShipway]

Is there not a version of the Stadler unit that is Electro - Diesel?

 

[starrymarkb]

Is there not a version of the Stadler unit that is Electro - Diesel?

Not yet (Unless the Unique MIB unit has a diesel engine for operating under ZB wires like the unit it replaced)

The GTW is either EMU or DEMU at present

Bombardier do have one in the form of the AGC for SNCF (Bi Mode & Bi Voltage)

 

[EWS 58038]

I would be surprised if it would fit in the UK loading gauge.

Personally I think an enlarged Parry People Mover might be a possible candidate to replace the Pacers.

 

[Crossforth]

I think they were suggesting of building one of UK to loading gauge

And I don't think a PPM has a high top speed am I correct?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Just checked, it has a top speed of 40mph and a capacity of 60 people