New Bus for London

[radamfi]

I suppose the requirement to show paper tickets to the driver means that the driver can press a button to record the use of the Travelcard.

 

[34D]

I suppose the requirement to show paper tickets to the driver means that the driver can press a button to record the use of the Travelcard.

And more specifically, press it at the right fare stage.

 

[yorkie]

A bit off-topic but just a quick question - Can you use the back platform when using a normal travelcard?

Not that I'm aware of. There were no notices stating that only holders of Oyster cards were able to use the rear doors! And besides, the Conductor was encouraging people to use all available doors. If he then sent someone back I'd not have been impressed (as well as contributing to further delay - the bus was already heavily delayed)

 

[Mojo]

I've used the Borismaster a few times and I love it. Cool and airy thanks to the air conditioning (or air cooling or whatever is installed), no rattles and shakes, the ability to hop on and off (although yet to take advantage of this I can think of situations on routes I often use where it'd be handy) and the seats are lovely and comfortable.

 

[transmanche]

There were no notices stating that only holders of Oyster cards were able to use the rear doors!

There should be a sticker advising Oyster users to touch in and those paying cash to board at the front. But it's silent on the matter of paper Travelcards.

The version on the left is from the 2012 design standards, The image on the right is a crop of a sticker on a 24 bus - which changed slightly to add info about contactless debit/credit cards.

 

[radamfi]

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/15493.aspx#page-link-using-the-bus

Oyster card holders or passengers using contactless payment cards can use any of the doors to board.

In central London, many stops have a roadside ticket machine. Where such a machine is provided, passengers paying with cash must buy their ticket from the machine before boarding. Elsewhere, passengers must board through the front door and buy a ticket from the driver. Passengers with a printed Travelcard or other printed pass or ticket must use the front door and show these to the driver.

 

[Mojo]

I wonder why they don't have the centre doors for exit-only (as at present) and allow Oyster or pass holding customers to use the platform or front door; presenting verification or payment to the driver or Customer Service Assistant as appropriate. A number of people on the first day of operation were quite reluctant to use the centre doors it seems, so I don't think there'd have been much confusion had this been implemented from new.

 

[transmanche]

I wonder why they don't have the centre doors for exit-only (as at present) and allow Oyster or pass holding customers to use the platform or front door; presenting verification or payment to the driver or Customer Service Assistant as appropriate. A number of people on the first day of operation were quite reluctant to use the centre doors it seems, so I don't think there'd have been much confusion had this been implemented from new.

The problem with your suggestion would be when the buses are operating in DOO mode. To avoid arguments, I guess they have decided to have a consistent policy.

I guess TfL were keen to replicate the three-door free-boarding policy that applied on the bendybuses - being that Boris made TfL get rid of them.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/15493.aspx#page-link-using-the-bus

Passengers with a printed Travelcard or other printed pass or ticket must use the front door and show these to the driver.

The problem is that the information about paper Travelcard doesn't appear to be shown on the bus...

 

[Antman]

I've used the Borismaster a few times and I love it. Cool and airy thanks to the air conditioning (or air cooling or whatever is installed), no rattles and shakes, the ability to hop on and off (although yet to take advantage of this I can think of situations on routes I often use where it'd be handy) and the seats are lovely and comfortable.

Yes very nice buses and passenger reaction has been very positive, there is an ad in tonights Standard for 'conductors' for route 11 if anybody is interested

 

[Mojo]

FWIW, TfL are also advertising for Revenue Protection Inspectors, starting at £30k training salary. See their site for details.

 

[Muzer]

why so?

Really? What brings you to that conclusion?

I've seen a few reports of many buses breaking down and the air cons on those left breaking leaving the top deck (with no opening windows whatsoever, even with a key) roasting. Of course, probably just teething problems, but if these are as prevalent as they seem to be by what I've read, still a rather poor show.

Also, they have less capacity than smaller buses (because they're too heavy or something), and are slightly below par for fuel efficiency.

 

[radamfi]

The NBfL really needs to have a third axle. Double deckers in most of the (few) countries that use them typically use three axles to accommodate the weight. Most British and Irish buses get away with 2 axles because of the low specification, but the NBfL has 2 staircases and air conditioning which add a lot of weight. The NBfL may actually be the only double decker with two staircases in the world that has only 2 axles. Hong Kong buses are mostly 3 axles because of the air conditioning.

 

[starrymarkb]

Also you could have rear wheel steer too on the tag axle to improve manoeuvrability

 

[gordonthemoron]

Also you could have rear wheel steer too on the tag axle to improve manoeuvrability

perhaps they could be made to hover?

 

[Antman]

I've seen a few reports of many buses breaking down and the air cons on those left breaking leaving the top deck (with no opening windows whatsoever, even with a key) roasting. Of course, probably just teething problems, but if these are as prevalent as they seem to be by what I've read, still a rather poor show.

Also, they have less capacity than smaller buses (because they're too heavy or something), and are slightly below par for fuel efficiency.

There have been problems with the air con on some buses but hopefully it can be sorted out soon? Other than that the buses seem to be very popular.

 

[richardderby]

front page of the standard, No Air con works, and no way to open any widows, like a Thai sauna on board the 24..
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...ves-passengers-sweltering-in-30c-8690392.html

 

[ModernRailways]

The closing of the platform is a big put down for me. I remember seeing the bus and just missing it at Green Park, the traffic lights just down the road turned red so I managed to run down and hop on. The conductor asked to see my ticket and was fine with it. He started moaning at people jumping off when the bus was moving through traffic (albeit at around 5mph). He stopped a few people who he said would be allowed off when the bus stopped. I can see why too, even at 5mph there were people stumbling as they jumped off. We then stopped at a set of lights and he let them off whilst we were stopped.

I was on the 24 recently and the back platform was completely closed and the bus was in DOO. It was around 5:30pm too so probably the time when most people would use it. At my stop the driver opened all three doors and then closed them all and he did this at every stop.

A lot of the moaning on that Boris Watch are very small things. The air con not working is a big thing, and they should have been tested properly or something cool should be given to passengers who ask. However the seating being 50 instead of 58 is something which I find stupid to complain about there is also a few other things which are just stupid small issues. The cost of the buses is expensive especially if they are running DOO, since there purpose was to have a platform at the rear, if the conductors are there and done properly then they will be worth the cost in my opinion as they really are nice buses with a nice modern look. I think they suit London really well.

 

[jopsuk]

The seating thing is suprisingly major- these are bigger than normal buses, yet have a lower capacity- partially because of their extreme weight- than a standard off-the-shelf double decker. They'd be fine if they were three axle (as is increasingly common elsewhere).

 

[CC 72100]

Not that I'm aware of. There were no notices stating that only holders of Oyster cards were able to use the rear doors! And besides, the Conductor was encouraging people to use all available doors. If he then sent someone back I'd not have been impressed (as well as contributing to further delay - the bus was already heavily delayed)

Thank you and also to the others who had replied - something to bear in mind when I next find myself in the area and thinking of trying it out.

 

[transmanche]

The closing of the platform is a big put down for me.

This is hardly news though. Even before the first prototypes hit the streets, it was said that the platform door would be closed in DOO mode - with the driver opening and closing all three sets of doors at bus stops.

 

[BestWestern]

Oh dear oh dear!!

This is a joke, surely? So these things cost substantially more (as in, over £100k more) than a standard bus. They cost more to run than a standard bus, as they weigh far more and so use even more fuel. And they will accommodate fewer passengers than a standard bus, because of the enormous weight. Not a great set of specs to be starting with. The air con doesn't seem to work, which is not good when some genius decided not to install any opening windows at all on the upper deck. And the fantastic rear platform is now only to be used at bus stops, because it's an old fashioned concept that very obviously doesn't work in today's claim-happy society. Wow, what a superb use of £350k of taxpayers cash, x 60! That being the 'initial' order of course; we can be certain that more will follow now the initial investment has been laid down, else somebody will look a bit silly. The damn things look horrible too. And you'll need to let the first one or two pass you by whilst you spend 10 minutes or so reading the 'which door to go through and what to do with your ticket' rule book.

What exactly are the legal ramifications of the open platform and the seemingly pointless conductor? If you are trying to board at 5mph, does he yell at you and then stand aside so you can merrily get on anyway, or does he get in your way so that you fall face first into the tarmak and land TfL with a big fat compo claim? What about getting off; does he rugby tackle you and pin you to the platform until the next stop, or does the same apply that you just ignore him and jump off anyway? What if you jump off and he isn't there to shout at you, if you fall is that your fault or TfL's?!

Hands up Boris voters who thought they were going to get something that looked like a bit more like a good old fashioned London bus and didn't expect these ridiculous monstrosities?! Can Londoners all agree now not to pay heed to any more silly Mayoral novelty projects - that's your taxes being wee'd up the wall!

 

[LexyBoy]

Whilst I will reserve full judgement till I have travelled on one, it does seem that all the issues with the Borismaster were predicted a long time ago, by a lot of people...

 

[robertclark125]

This is actually beginning to put me in mind of CIE's Bombardier range of buses. Sure they lasted a long time, but just two were exported and they didn't prove popular with operators elsewhere.

It's fine building a bus for a specific city, and yes, I know there are more buses in London than the whole of Ireland, both sides of the border, but in reality, this is hardly doing the confidence of the travelling public any good.

The mayor wanted an iconic bus for London. He sure well got it, and London's paying for it.

 

[transmanche]

They cost more to run than a standard bus, as they weigh far more and so use even more fuel. And they will accommodate fewer passengers than a standard bus, because of the enormous weight.

There's an nteresting article from Tom Edwards (BBC London's transport correspondent) about the 'green credientials' of the Boris Buses.

Tfl report an average of 6.74mpg for the prototype vehicles (versus 6.1mpg for the 'normal' hybrids working on route 73). Which means they use less fuel, not more.

TfL also say that the production buses are not as heavy as the prototypes and they "estimate the production vehicles will deliver approximately 1 mpg improvement on the prototype vehicles".

Emissions of NOx and particulates are claimed as a quarter of 'normal' hybrids, with CO2 emissions about 20% less.

 

[BestWestern]

There's an nteresting article from Tom Edwards (BBC London's transport correspondent) about the 'green credientials' of the Boris Buses.

Tfl report an average of 6.74mpg for the prototype vehicles (versus 6.1mpg for the 'normal' hybrids working on route 73). Which means they use less fuel, not more.

TfL also say that the production buses are not as heavy as the prototypes and they "estimate the production vehicles will deliver approximately 1 mpg improvement on the prototype vehicles".

Emissions of NOx and particulates are claimed as a quarter of 'normal' hybrids, with CO2 emissions about 20% less.

Well, one would hope that would be the case after such an investment. Emissions figures are, of course, highly dubious however, as anybody who has bought a new car will tell you! Where will these very substantial fuel savings come from on the production buses I wonder; 1mpg out of a total of 6-7 is quite a big number.

 

[Liam]

perhaps they could be made to hover?

Or a bendy bit in the middle?

 

[Goldfynche]

I went on one last week, just for the hell of it. I travelled the entire 38 route from Victoria to Hackney Central. I estimate that there were about 40 buses on that route. But they were all 'old stock' I didn't see another 'Boris' until I got off at Hackney. I didn't see a conductor. I just boarded with my Perishers Pass in the normal way at the front.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

front page of the standard, No Air con works, and no way to open any widows, like a Thai sauna on board the 24..
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...ves-passengers-sweltering-in-30c-8690392.html

30.4°C on the upper deck?

My study at home is currently 31.6°C and I am spending 2 - 3 hours a day working up here, and before anyone asks the window is closed and I am quite comfortable...

 

[jon0844]

It isn't just about cooling, as a bus is much like a greenhouse. If it can at least reduce the humidity, even 30 degrees can be quite comfortable.

 

[button_boxer]

1mpg out of a total of 6-7 is quite a big number.

Which is why the l/100km way that the rest of the world quotes fuel efficiency makes so much more sense.