New Bus for London

[313103]

Well the Mayor's plan to us to start using the rear platform, have sort of backfired by his organisation.

The New Bus for London was sold (not just expensively) but its use of the rear open platform. However bosses have decided that that the 8 or so LTs (that's the code given to them) on route 38 are to have the rear set of doors (normally open to give a open platform) closed on a permanent basis and the conductor withdrawn and bus to operate on a DOO basis.

The other route operated solely by LTs (the 24) still have Conductors on them during the day with the platform door open.

Now the silly question needs to be asked, why still have these expensive buses running around in DOO mode? What is the point in all honesty? The excuse given by Management does not hold water either. Why not transfer them to the 24?

The link below is from the BBC. Needs to be seen to be believed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-23172634

Open deck platforms to be closed on some new buses

When London's mayor promised a new Routemaster bus he pledged that commuters would be able to hop on and off between stops.

But BBC London has discovered that on some of the buses this will not happen.

BBC London Transport Correspondent Tom Edwards reports.

 

[scotsman]

Any job losses as a result? Hopefully the Conductors were displaced to other routes. (Not hugely knowledgeable on London buses).

I understand the reason for the decision, but they really shouldn't have been built in the first place

 

[mbonwick]

The 24 already has a full allocation of LTs, so there's no reason to transfer them over.

The 38 will be going all-LT in the future, at which point I imagine they'll have the platforms open again, but until then it makes sense to close it off to help maintain the service pattern.

 

[jopsuk]

Even on the 24 TfL are still claiming the platform is for "hop on hop off" (on twitter), yet the sole role of the "conductor" is to ensure people abide by the TfL bus conditions of carriage and only board or alight at designated stops. They have absolutely NO revenue role whatsoever.

(then there's major stink being caused, in both ways, by the abymsal air conditioning)

 

[robertclark125]

Makes you wonder why TfL bothered designing an "iconic" new bus for London, when the likes of the Scania Omnicity and Enviro 400 are already able to operate in OPO mode. TfL needs to remember that it's no longer a bus operator per se; there are firms running the buses for them, and they, as operators, would have a good idea of what's the best bus around, not the Mayor of London.

If Boris carries on like this, what's the bet he'll want Televisions designed specific for London, and everyone living in the capital will have to buy/rent one from the Mayor?

 

[starrymarkb]

Or controversially - the Mercedes Citaro G (With proper Fare Enforcement)

 

[gordonthemoron]

Boris should get some bendy buses, they're great

 

[34D]

Why can't the driver simply open the rear door at stops

I'd question whether an exit door _can_ remain closed like this, tbh

 

[transmanche]

However bosses have decided that that the 8 or so LTs (that's the code given to them) on route 38 are to have the rear set of doors (normally open to give a open platform) closed on a permanent basis and the conductor withdrawn and bus to operate on a DOO basis.

Well it was said from the outset that the buses would also operate in DOO mode - and that the rear platform would be closed in DOO mode.

Up until now, the Borismasters have run as extras on the 38 - in addition to the current timetable. But now they are being merged into the normal allocation, as part of the standard timetable. So I guess that would cause problems in view allocation and (in the all-important mantra of the old-fashioned LT inspector) the 'maintenance of headway'.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Why can't the driver simply open the rear door at stops

That's exactly what they do. When in DOO mode they're just like the bendybuses, with the driver controlling three sets of doors.

 

[starrymarkb]

Why can't the driver simply open the rear door at stops

I'd question whether an exit door _can_ remain closed like this, tbh

Probably because people might sneak on without paying [/EveningStandard]

 

[transmanche]

Even on the 24 TfL are still claiming the platform is for "hop on hop off" (on twitter), yet the sole role of the "conductor" is to ensure people abide by the TfL bus conditions of carriage and only board or alight at designated stops. They have absolutely NO revenue role whatsoever.

It was made public from the outset that the conductor would have no revenue role - their role being 'customer service'.

Conductors will not collect fares but will supervise the rear platform when they are on board, ensuring passenger safety when hopping on or off and providing travel advice.

Source: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/15493.aspx
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Probably because people might sneak on without paying [/EveningStandard]

They can still do that via the centre door. Remember the Borismasters use the same free boarding system as on the bendybuses - with Oyster readers at every door.

 

[Muzer]

What's the point in the platform if you're not allowed to jump on and off it while the bus is in motion, is my other question? (Assuming what a poster above said is accurate). I can see why they would want to stop people doing it for health and safety reasons - but wasn't that the whole point in the platform?

 

[transmanche]

What's the point in the platform if you're not allowed to jump on and off it while the bus is in motion, is my other question? (Assuming what a poster above said is accurate). I can see why they would want to stop people doing it for health and safety reasons - but wasn't that the whole point in the platform?

We don't really have any reliable information. Was the conductor preventing people from boarding because the bus was full? Was the conductor preventing people from alighting because the bus was in motion, rather than stationary in traffic?

There only seem to be rumours...

 

[burneside]

It was made public from the outset that the conductor would have no revenue role - their role being 'customer service'.


Source: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/15493.aspx
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
They can still do that via the centre door. Remember the Borismasters use the same free boarding system as on the bendybuses - with Oyster readers at every door.

Yesterday I jumped on one of the new buses, and as I have an Oyster Travelcard (not pay-as-you-go) I went to sit down without tapping in on one of the readers. The conductor challenged me and said I needed to tap in, when I pointed out I wasn't using a pay-as-you-go Oyster he just shrugged his shoulders and walked away. I am presuming he was mistaken, as in all the years of using the bendy buses I never once tapped in, and on the occasions my ticket was checked en route by an inspector I was never told that I needed to validate my Travelcard on entering the bus.

 

[radamfi]

The rules for the NBfL are different to those used on bendy buses, which also still apply to the free boarding routes 507 and 521. When the bendy buses were in operation and now on the 507 and 521, you may board at any door with any ticket and do not need to show the ticket to the driver if you board at the front door. Only PAYG Oyster holders need(ed) to tap in.

On the NBfL, if you board at the front door you need to show the ticket to the driver, or touch in with the card. At the middle and rear doors, only Oyster/contactless cards are permitted and all Oysters need to be touched in, even Travelcard Oysters. The 'conductor' is there partly to check whether passengers at the middle and rear doors touch in.

The job advert for Passenger Assistants on route 11

http://www.londoncentral.com/join-our-team/nbfl.html

explains that successful applicants "will also be responsible for encouraging passengers to touch in with their oyster/contactless payment cards".

 

[Pumbaa]

A fairly good account of the problems experienced so far over at BorisWatch, including conductors stopping people exiting the platform when in motion.

http://www.boriswatch.co.uk

 

[34D]

Yesterday I jumped on one of the new buses, and as I have an Oyster Travelcard (not pay-as-you-go) I went to sit down without tapping in on one of the readers.

I believe you are liable to a penalty fare. The rules for buses (iirc) were changed last year and every passenger (even those with oyster travelcards) are now required to touch in.

 

[tom1649]

With no opening windows and apparently ineffective air conditioning, it'll be interesting to see how passengers cope with the forecast heat wave this weekend.

 

[Mikey C]

Makes you wonder why TfL bothered designing an "iconic" new bus for London, when the likes of the Scania Omnicity and Enviro 400 are already able to operate in OPO mode. TfL needs to remember that it's no longer a bus operator per se; there are firms running the buses for them, and they, as operators, would have a good idea of what's the best bus around, not the Mayor of London.

If Boris carries on like this, what's the bet he'll want Televisions designed specific for London, and everyone living in the capital will have to buy/rent one from the Mayor?

It's funny how people moan about the the big bus groups ripping the public off with their fares or providing poor service, yet when TfL decide how buses in London should run, then people suddenly defend them. Whether you like the Borismaster or not, isn't the principal of TfL (under a democratically elected Mayor) taking active control similar to what they've down with the Overground services? Or should we go back to Silverlink, because the private operators know what's best?

 

[transmanche]

A fairly good account of the problems experienced so far over at BorisWatch, including conductors stopping people exiting the platform when in motion.

I scrolled all the way down and only saw one real allegation about not being able to hop-on/hop-off.

As the CSAs are supposed to "supervise the open rear platform ensuring passengers are able to hop on and off when it is safe to do so"; perhaps the fault lies with Metroline (operators of route 24) who have either a) interpreted this too strictly or b) not trained their staff well enough.

 

[radamfi]

It's funny how people moan about the the big bus groups ripping the public off with their fares or providing poor service, yet when TfL decide how buses in London should run, then people suddenly defend them. Whether you like the Borismaster or not, isn't the principal of TfL (under a democratically elected Mayor) taking active control similar to what they've down with the Overground services? Or should we go back to Silverlink, because the private operators know what's best?

At least we do have the option of criticising the Mayor/TfL and hopefully influencing a change through public opinion and/or the ballot box. The negative perception of bendy buses by some was seized upon by Boris and helped him become Mayor. Boris has staked his reputation on these new buses and if they don't work out, he may well be toast.

However, outside London, there's not much we can do about any bus company, apart from boycott them. They can't be 'sacked'. At best the Traffic Commissioner can only punish extremely poor reliability. We can do absolutely nothing about fares or service levels or integration with other services.

 

[Antman]

Well the Mayor's plan to us to start using the rear platform, have sort of backfired by his organisation.

The New Bus for London was sold (not just expensively) but its use of the rear open platform. However bosses have decided that that the 8 or so LTs (that's the code given to them) on route 38 are to have the rear set of doors (normally open to give a open platform) closed on a permanent basis and the conductor withdrawn and bus to operate on a DOO basis.

The other route operated solely by LTs (the 24) still have Conductors on them during the day with the platform door open.

Now the silly question needs to be asked, why still have these expensive buses running around in DOO mode? What is the point in all honesty? The excuse given by Management does not hold water either. Why not transfer them to the 24?

The link below is from the BBC. Needs to be seen to be believed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-23172634

They've hardly backfired have they?

It is a bit pointless keeping these buses on the 38 in OPO mode but presumably it is only a temporary arrangement?

Oh and the 'conductors' on the 38 were actually drivers as well.

Meanwhile the new buses have been very well receieved on the 24.

 

[Pumbaa]

Well received by tourists and casual bus users, yes. Not by regular commuters.

 

[gordonthemoron]

why so?

 

[CC 72100]

A bit off-topic but just a quick question - Can you use the back platform when using a normal travelcard?

 

[radamfi]

A bit off-topic but just a quick question - Can you use the back platform when using a normal travelcard?

Paper tickets need to be shown to the driver when getting on. Of course, you may alight at the back door.

 

[martinsh]

Paper tickets need to be shown to the driver when getting on. Of course, you may alight at the back door.

How b*****y stupid ! What are they going to do if I got on at the back door with a paper travelcard - insist I go and show it to the driver ?!

 

[Antman]

How b*****y stupid ! What are they going to do if I got on at the back door with a paper travelcard - insist I go and show it to the driver ?!

No..............in practice common sense applies
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well received by tourists and casual bus users, yes. Not by regular commuters.

Really? What brings you to that conclusion?

 

[radamfi]

How b*****y stupid ! What are they going to do if I got on at the back door with a paper travelcard - insist I go and show it to the driver ?!

I've seen people told to do just that. Presumably, the conductor has no training on tickets, apart from being told that everyone boarding at the rear two doors needs to touch in. A normal conductor (like on routes 9 and 15), by contrast, has to know about paper Travelcards.

 

[Antman]

I've seen people told to do just that. Presumably, the conductor has no training on tickets, apart from being told that everyone boarding at the rear two doors needs to touch in. A normal conductor (like on routes 9 and 15), by contrast, has to know about paper Travelcards.

Well it probably varies between conductors but the ones I've seen have just thanked passengers for showing them their travelcard and (perhaps?) told the driver how many they've acknowledged at the end of the journey. I don't really think any training is needed to identify a valid travelcard