New automatic ticket gates at King’s Cross

[jon0844]

I am 15 minutes from Leeds, from King's Cross, and nobody has been through the train (we are in coach D) at all - let alone to check tickets.

But, there were problems earlier in the day that have caused problems this evening, such that first class has been declassified and all reservations cancelled. Yet the train was still lightly loaded (anyone standing chose to, there were seats from KGX and after PBO even more - now it's half full or even emptier than that).

The plus side is that we left over 30 minutes late, so that's a few rail vouchers to us!

BTW, when they cancel seat reservations, what happens if you get on and can't sit down?

 

[silentone]

You stand? Levitate?

 

[jon0844]

haha! What I meant was, do you get anything under delay repay? Now, as it was delayed 30+ minutes we do anyway (and EC states you only get one lot of compensation, so it doesn't double up).

I should add that I probably won't even bother to claim anyway as the delay was down to bad weather, I'm simply asking!

Everyone in First Class with a FC ticket was told they could get a refund of their FC portion, so they're covered. Sadly, they had no restaurant service which was a shame as we hoped to eat on the train instead of searching for food at 2230!

 

[Deerfold]

I did get checked yesterday before Peterborough but there were no checks after Peterborough - so presumably anyone over-travelling on a Peterborough ticket would not be spotted.

 

[Failed Unit]

Looks like a letter to Ms Holt is required then as it looks like from the above to examples the FCC only tickets are welcome on east coast and they dont mind carrying passengers they get no revenue for. Maybe ask her how the barriers will help her company recover that lost revenue! As for overdistance there are so many ways to avoid the barriers that if the get the reputation of no checks after Peterborough the flood gates open. I already sometimes buy an off-peak return to Peterborough and change on FCC to avoid the open return fare. So in the future everyone may do it but not bother changing at Peterborough, very worrying. East coast get this sorted before even think about barriers, get the basic right first! Oh and I do have a FCC ticket when doing this, not relying on the fact FCC are DOO so a ticket check on board them is slim.

 

[jon0844]

I am not sure my train counts, given they said they'd merged THREE trains into one (hence declassifying first) - although there was plenty of room to come through. Hardly anyone was standing and everyone was going to/from the cafebar, to clear it out!

Perhaps after disruption it becomes a free for all, given there would be the potential for lots of arguments about reserved seats, passengers worried about missing connections (done over the PA instead with times for onward trains - which was good) and those who are no longer on their booked train with an advance. Perhaps the staff thought it would be better to stay in once place?

 

[Tom B]

If 3 trains had been cancelled, could they not have used the staff from the cancelled services to assist those on the running ones? Unless, of course, a staff shortage was the reason...

 

[jon0844]

The service was being restored to normal after problems earlier (train cancellations and emergency speed restrictions, which I presume is down to the ECML being so badly wired that in high winds they can't take chances of things getting FAR worse).

It was quite surreal at King's Cross around 7pm, as there was a 180 on platform 8 and then NOTHING on platforms 1-7! (Some FCC trains had come and gone, but most were on 9-11).

The restaurant was closed as the crew to man it hadn't been able to get there, but given they had to take three train loads and declassified first, I doubt they'd have been serving food anyway.

We 'followed' the incoming train from Edinburgh and saw the allocated platform it was arriving on (0) so guessed it would be the Leeds train (based on the 20 minute turnaround of a train before). As such, we (and some others who were simply looking out for any EC train) went to platform 0 long before it was announced. I was stunned at how efficient they were in cleaning the trains, and how many people were blitzing it and filling up bin bags.. as well as restocking the cafebar.

Nobody boarded the train until given permission, and when we did get let on it was about 10 minutes before they announced it.

Suffice to say, EC were short staffed and did a commendable job under the circumstances. I am sure any staff that were around had to make sure they were able to man the other trains that were running later.

All I can say is, well done EC!

 

[Deerfold]

Did keighley to london again today. No check on the leeds to london train again. It was fairly busy but none of the standees in my carriage had to-but seemed to prefer to remain in a group.

 

[jon0844]

We were checked on the way back (1140 from LDS to KGX) and upgraded to first class from the TM. I am not sure £50 was worth it for two people to enjoy free tea and biscuits, but it was a nice way to finish a good weekend break.

I have no idea if she went off through standard but I have to presume she did, and she checked after each stop. We arrived at platform 2, which will have operational gates from tomorrow.

 

[Deerfold]

Has anyone experienced the gates in use yet?

 

[dk1]

Was absolutley heaving on the concourse at Kings Cross yesterday afternoon. Didnt see ant barrier checks in operation as i boarded the 14.15 Kings Lynn which may be do to late boarding as the 14.10 Leeds didnt start until 14.03.

 

[jon0844]

haha.. that was the train I was on (coming in). Arrived at 1355 or so, which meant a tight turnaround. I didn't realise EC actually scheduled trains to turn around that quickly. Scheduled arrival 1350, scheduled departure 1410 - given the distance the train has travelled, no wonder things go pear shaped so quickly. It's also no wonder the ISS cleaning staff were literally running at the train when I got off, and the speed the destination cards were being put on was crazy too.

I saw that they were holding people back to stop them trying to board as we were getting off - so gates would prevent the build up of people (at least to allow us off). That is probably a good thing.

 

[Failed Unit]

I saw that they were holding people back to stop them trying to board as we were getting off - so gates would prevent the build up of people (at least to allow us off). That is probably a good thing.

Not sure that they would. At Glasgow queen street people pass the gates before the platform is announced to avoid the crush going through them. So this may still happen at Kings Cross. The only thing that MAY stop that is if a hst was on platform 1 and 8, you know your train is a HST but you don't want risk getting it wrong. However if the HSTs are on 1 and 2 you might as well go through to avoid the stampede.

 

[Deerfold]

A colleague reports that he got into Kings Cross this morning to find all the gates open and a lot of police around. He's not quite sure what had happened.

 

[jon0844]

Not sure that they would. At Glasgow queen street people pass the gates before the platform is announced to avoid the crush going through them. So this may still happen at Kings Cross. The only thing that MAY stop that is if a hst was on platform 1 and 8, you know your train is a HST but you don't want risk getting it wrong. However if the HSTs are on 1 and 2 you might as well go through to avoid the stampede.

Well it certainly is the case that I got on the train at platform 0 on the Friday about 10 minutes before it was announced, but there were EC staff who had perhaps simply asked people not to walk down platform 2.

I don't know the reason, but people were waiting and not walking down at 1355.

 

[amcluesent]

Dear oh dear. Even on a normal Tue evening it's really not working. There's no means for peeps coming up from the tube to get to 0 to 5 when they call a train on 8 and everyone on the concourse heads the opposite direction. They need some path kept clear on the concourse. I can forsee the elderly and children being bowled over like skittles.

BTW, still asked to show tickets in EC 1st before we'd reached PBO.

 

[jon0844]

I must admit, I don't think the system can really work properly until they've gated 0-7 and can then close off 0-7, leaving platform 8 (and a rather narrow walkway to 9-11) fairly open.

I am still at work so probably won't be able to get to KGX before they're opened up in time to let the late night fare evaders through!

 

[philjo]

A colleague reports that he got into Kings Cross this morning to find all the gates open and a lot of police around. He's not quite sure what had happened.

The Daily Telegraph this morning had a photograph of The Queen boarding a 365 at Kings Lynn to travel back from Sandringham to London, so suspect that will explain the heavy police presence. I can't imagine them insisting that she used the barriers!

I was travelling into London in December & we were put into Platform 11 at Kings Cross instead of the usual platform in the main station, As we got off a large cleaning gang arrived & I noticed a heavy police presence then.
I read later that The Queen had travelled out to Kings Lynn that morning. they probably use platform 11 as they can take the car close to the suburban entrance without having to go through the main concourse.

Dear oh dear. Even on a normal Tue evening it's really not working. There's no means for peeps coming up from the tube to get to 0 to 5 when they call a train on 8 and everyone on the concourse heads the opposite direction. They need some path kept clear on the concourse. I can forsee the elderly and children being bowled over like skittles

Tonight won't be a typical test of the barriers though as I suspect manay of the passengers usually using Moorgate services will travel via Kings Cross this evening due to the OHLE problems today at Finsbury Park preventing through services from Moorgate for most of the day.

 

[jon0844]

I went there tonight, before getting the 2036 and they were still in operation.

One problem with 0-5 being isolated is that to walk through from the side entrance (Eastern side), you must now negotiate yourself through the main concourse - which can be heaving. Given people fill every bit of it, right up to the shops around the edge, it is now hard to come in from there (and that's where the FC lounge is).

I did see that EC have a member of staff on each section that is otherwise hidden from view - and saw a number of people looking confused as if they'd not used gates before! Surely few people have been in London without using gates somewhere?

 

[rjhglover]

In regard to the ticket barriers at Kings Cross, I arrived at/departed from Platform 0 on 28th January the barriers were open for both. The Peterborough Evening Telegraph reported that Peterborough station will have barriers installed and a lift to the bridge across the tracks. Without adjusting the current layout there is room for 3 ticket barriers, two standard and a disabled one.

I went to Nottingham a few months ago and a way to avoid the barriers was to go to the tram station and then down another flight of stairs on to the road.

 

[jopsuk]

Peterborough is getting a big change to the layout- and of course on the 28th the barriers were standing open, as they weren't activated until Monday 7/2.

 

[amcluesent]

Yep. Peterborough is going to have a 'Station Quarter' - well, maybe one day! At the moment it's all artists impressions. Anyhow, at the moment PBO is the tattiest station on ECML

 

[Aictos]

Peterborough is getting a big change to the layout- and of course on the 28th the barriers were standing open, as they weren't activated until Monday 7/2.

They certainly are, I believe the work is booked to start in March/April and finished in October so certainly not hanging around.

I hope though that they include a new entrance as the current station road is dangerous being narrow with car drivers breaking every single rule there is, mind you it's partly Network Rail's and East Coast's fault for not supplying a area set aside which is purpose built for pick up and drop off purposes, one former London bus driver said it was worse then London which says it all really!

As to the barriers and having your ticket checked on board in First Class, it's a good move as anyone could use a Standard Class ticket to get though the barriers then decide to jump into First Class with all intention of blagging a freebie which isn't fair to the passengers who hold First Class tickets.

 

[Failed Unit]

it's partly Network Rail's and East Coast's fault for not supplying a area set aside which is purpose built for pick up and drop off purposes, one former London bus driver said it was worse then London which says it all really!

As to the barriers and having your ticket checked on board in First Class, it's a good move as anyone could use a Standard Class ticket to get though the barriers then decide to jump into First Class with all intention of blagging a freebie which isn't fair to the passengers who hold First Class tickets.

Why single out east coast on the pick-up drop off other operators use the station.

Ticket checks should be both classes to stop all those FCC only passengers tickets using east coast now the barriers have made it easier than the manual checks they replaced! Along with catching AP holders on the wrong train.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
It looks like my prediction was right, the barriers cause chaos, I hope the 2nd part doesn't come true with an increase of people using the wrong ticket.

 

[GNER 91128]

Yep. Peterborough is going to have a 'Station Quarter' - well, maybe one day! At the moment it's all artists impressions. Anyhow, at the moment PBO is the tattiest station on ECML

I'll believe it when I see it! The current station (which was only meant to only be temporary one) is a bit of an embarrassment really.

The station redevelopment was tied into to the Queensgate redevelopment plans so I can't see anything happening until that starts and also there's alot of track work to be done, isn't there going to be a fly over from the March line into the goods yard? aswell as more through lines?

 

[Aictos]

Why single out east coast on the pick-up drop off other operators use the station.

Ticket checks should be both classes to stop all those FCC only passengers tickets using east coast now the barriers have made it easier than the manual checks they replaced! Along with catching AP holders on the wrong train.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
It looks like my prediction was right, the barriers cause chaos, I hope the 2nd part doesn't come true with an increase of people using the wrong ticket.

Well maybe I decide to stay with that view as East Coast is the SFO (Station Franchise Operator) and not Cross Country, East Midland Trains or First Capital Connect and as such ought to take the lead to provide much improved facilities which is seriously needed which both myself and the senior management team agree on.

The other TOCs using the station could work together with East Coast but East Coast as the SFO needs to lead the way with Network Rail.

It's like if East Midlands Trains carried out needed work at Sheffield which sees Northern and Trans Pennine Express serve as well, I would expect East Midlands Trains to be in the leading position to lead the project even though it would require co-operation from the other TOCs.

I've nothing against TOCs but rather believe the SFO in question ought to lead in every investment project.

I only used the First Class ticket check as a example, now as to the barriers I know the FCC ones can be setup by staff to reject/accept certain operators only, only reject/accept tickets from certain stations which is useful if fraud is commited on a large scale from the station in question or even reject/accept different types of tickets so East Coast could easily set their barriers up to reject FCC only tickets with the barriers displaying Seek Assistance which ought to remove any issues you have stated above.

 

[Failed Unit]

If you start rejecting tickets like that the queue get longer for the genuine passengers with those tickets. You may as well have just stuck with the manual checks!

 

[jon0844]

My wife got a Hatfield > Welwyn Garden City ticket with a Gold Card discount from Leeds (took a while for the guy there to work out how to apply a GC discount) and it was rejected at the barriers at WGC.

I can no longer use my season ticket at any FCC station between the origin or destination, so if they set just about every ticket to be rejected at King's Cross, no wonder there is chaos.

 

[island]

If you could get her to note down the numerical code that appears next to "seek assistance" and then post it here, there are several people who can tell you what the code means which may shed more light on the situation.