New automatic ticket gates at King’s Cross

[Aictos]

Finally Kings Cross is getting automatic ticket gates or ATGs in the main shed which is Platforms 0 to 8 with the work to install them on Platforms 0 to 5 starting on the 28th December and is aimed to go live from 7 February.

More news to follow shortly....

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Finally Kings Cross is getting automatic ticket gates or ATGs in the main shed which is Platforms 0 to 8 with the work to install them on Platforms 0 to 5 starting on the 28th December and is aimed to go live from 7 February.

More news to follow shortly....

TBH ajax103, I really wouldn't go round here talking about this, it can kick off a bit (there's was a massive thread on here about NXEC's old plans at York etc). I know that 9-11 (FCC only) are already gated, I always do wonder though how many actually travel ticketless from the Mainline platforms, only Finsbury Park or Potters Bar etc would be reachable ticketless, then again you've got FCC's strict policy on the issue.

I suppose it is only a matter of time (certainly within the next 5-10 years) that all sizeable (5,000,000+ per year) stations will be gated, then again, you've always got them stations (like Preston, Sheffield, or York) where it is either impossible, or breaches Listed statuses. Mind you, they are more and more common at smaller stations now, Loughborough and Radyr being examples of this, I know Liverpool Lime St is to be (automatically) gated soon.

 

[alexdodds]

Thought they would have waited till the new concourse opens and I dont think they would gate platform 8 because its used a walkway between the main concourse and platforms 9 - 11 which are already gated.

 

[Dai.]

I can see why they are needed in stations of a large nature though, because of people not buying tickets or skipping.

 

[NSE]

TBH ajax103, I really wouldn't go round here talking about this, it can kick off a bit (there's was a massive thread on here about NXEC's old plans at York etc). I know that 9-11 (FCC only) are already gated, I always do wonder though how many actually travel ticketless from the Mainline platforms, only Finsbury Park or Potters Bar etc would be reachable ticketless, then again you've got FCC's strict policy on the issue.

Tbh you can go much further afield without a ticket, Ely, Sandy, Peterborough are all gateless (off the top of my head). As a regular customer for St. Neots, thats only staffed between peak hours, and often the ticket man has left them open whilst there. The 20:07 for example, departs platform 3 or 8 generally, so no ticket, then first stop St. Neots staff all gone home, no ticket check at all. I've rarely had one on the train.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

There's a fairly constant trickle of people acessing Plat 1 (now also Plat 0) to use the well-used bicycle racks there.
I know similar arrangements with the racks being train-side of the barriers at other large stations but it can complicate things, esp with the intense crowding arising from the brevity of time between platforms being announced and the departure.

 

[jon0844]

I guess platform 8 can't be done until the station is completed and there's a way to get by without having to go through a gateline.

Finsbury Park is also getting gates, and work is well underway for platform 1/2 and 5/6 (5/6 is easy; there's already the open space - 1/2 is harder as they're doing structural work to a building).

With all of KGX done, and FPK, it should stop a lot of ticketless travel - but will have to be staffed for later than 8-9pm.

 

[Oswyntail]

Finally Kings Cross is getting automatic ticket gates or ATGs in the main shed which is Platforms 0 to 8 with the work to install them on Platforms 0 to 5 starting on the 28th December and is aimed to go live from 7 February.

More news to follow shortly....

Just so long as they drop the habit of announcing the platform for a train only 5 minutes before departure. Filtering a train load through a gate while allowing enough time for the slowest member of the public to walk the length of the train before doors are closed - I think 20 minutes would be a suitable allowance for that.
Though I do think it is a retrograde step, using the wrong sledgehammer to crack a small nut.

 

[Aictos]

Tbh you can go much further afield without a ticket, Ely, Sandy, Peterborough are all gateless (off the top of my head). As a regular customer for St. Neots, thats only staffed between peak hours, and often the ticket man has left them open whilst there. The 20:07 for example, departs platform 3 or 8 generally, so no ticket, then first stop St. Neots staff all gone home, no ticket check at all. I've rarely had one on the train.

Peterborough does have manual checks in the morning from Monday to Saturday and also joint FCC/East Coast blocks as well.

Finsbury Park will be getting ATGs next year, Potters Bar is already gated.

I know Peterborough will be getting them when the station is remodelled which I believe starts in March 2011 and finished by October 2011.

 

[Lampshade]

Would HT and GC's buy on board policy still be honoured?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Would HT and GC's buy on board policy still be honoured?

I would imagine that they would do the same as they do at Bradford Interchange, what with that being gated and having a GC service: barrier staff let passengers onto the platform ticketless (to buy onboard) up to 10 minutes before departure time. I do not know whether that would be as easily done in the Capital as it is in Bradford, but I would imagine that it would be done on some sort of similar timescale, if done at all.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I would imagine to solve the p8 problem they would just create a massive plastic wall between the walkway and platform edge (i.e. where the train is), similar to the little bits of wall you have at the end of barriers, can't find a photo of one ATM. Ugly: yes, effective: even more so.

 

[Greenback]

I would imagine that they would do the same as they do at Bradford Interchange, what with that being gated and having a GC service: barrier staff let passengers onto the platform ticketless (to buy onboard) up to 10 minutes before departure time.

Are you sure that's right Matt? Is that an official 10 minute policy? If so, is it documented anywhere?

What if someone turns up 5 mins before departure? Are they not allowed through the barriers then?

 

[NSE]

Peterborough does have manual checks in the morning from Monday to Saturday and also joint FCC/East Coast blocks as well.

Finsbury Park will be getting ATGs next year, Potters Bar is already gated.

I know Peterborough will be getting them when the station is remodelled which I believe starts in March 2011 and finished by October 2011.

I appreciate that, not ever got off the train at Peterborough, but heard there were no gates there, but personally as someone who likes to keep their ticket as a reminder of the journey (am I the only one to do that? :P ) I always end up remembering if the gates are there or not, and for a company that is always harping on about valid tickets etc, I can think of plenty of journeys I could have got for free, I've frequently seen platforms 9-11 open at KGX too.

 

[Lampshade]

Nope

 

[NSE]

Nope

Glad I'm not the only one then haha, must say I've found all train staff to be fine with letting me through the barriers, either ripping my ticket slightly or just waving me through. Pride and joy currently sits between either the Cambridge/Stafford return or St Neots/Southend Stations, both as they are obscure destinations for me, and also both fantastics trips You sir?

 

[Lampshade]

I'd love to see the end result of a packed 225 arriving at the same time as a packed 225 departing an adjacent platform, it's bad enough as it is.

 

[krus_aragon]

Mind you, they are more and more common at smaller stations now, Loughborough and Radyr being examples of this

When did Radyr get fenced off?

 

[wintonian]

assive plastic wall between the walkway and platform edge (i.e. where the train is), similar to the little bits of wall you have at the end of barriers, can't find a photo of one ATM. Ugly: yes, effective: even more so.

Like this?

 

[Failed Unit]

I don't think they will bother with platform 8 to be honest just as platform 1 at paddington isn't barriered.

To be honest if east coast can't check an entire train between London and Peterborough it is a bad job. GNER used to check entire trains Southbound after leaving peterborough. As for FCC it isn't going to reduce ticketless travel for them either. The determined will just get a kx to finsbury park single and take the chance if the station they leave doesn't have barriers.

 

[Fred26]

I don't think they will bother with platform 8 to be honest just as platform 1 at paddington isn't barriered.

To be honest if east coast can't check an entire train between London and Peterborough it is a bad job. GNER used to check entire trains Southbound after leaving peterborough. As for FCC it isn't going to reduce ticketless travel for them either. The determined will just get a kx to finsbury park single and take the chance if the station they leave doesn't have barriers.

The determined will always avoid the fare. Barriers will stop spur moment evaders - maybe not completely, but something is better than nothing. They are a deterant.

 

[Aictos]

I'd love to see the end result of a packed 225 arriving at the same time as a packed 225 departing an adjacent platform, it's bad enough as it is.

Simple, health and safety requires the gateline to be left in the open position to prevent overcrowding so I'm sure the staff will be given something similar to what FCC staff get which is a little guy to help judge overcrowding.

I believe it is also a health and safety requirement for them to be manned at all times and if that isn't the case for them to be left open.

I appreciate that, not ever got off the train at Peterborough, but heard there were no gates there, but personally as someone who likes to keep their ticket as a reminder of the journey (am I the only one to do that? :P ) I always end up remembering if the gates are there or not, and for a company that is always harping on about valid tickets etc, I can think of plenty of journeys I could have got for free, I've frequently seen platforms 9-11 open at KGX too.

No problems, they can do random checks with FCC as well which sometimes has BTP presence as well.

You will mainly see them though Monday to Friday for the morning peak although I strongly believe that Peterborough should be manned by both FCC and East Coast working together so staff are there from 0600 to 2100.

The determined will always avoid the fare. Barriers will stop spur moment evaders - maybe not completely, but something is better than nothing. They are a deterrent.

I can think of 3 stations where I've either seen or heard of fare dodgers jumping barriers, the one that made me laugh was a station with barriers which wasn't manned at the time yet some fare dodgers still decided to walk down the embankment to the footpath below which proves Fred26's point that although they won't stop fare dodgers completely they ARE a deterrent.

 

[Failed Unit]

Really? Do you think anyone would expect to get anywhere on east coast without getting checked? If they do then something is really wrong with thier checking!

 

[Fred26]

I can think of 3 stations where I've either seen or heard of fare dodgers jumping barriers, the one that made me laugh was a station with barriers which wasn't manned at the time yet some fare dodgers still decided to walk down the embankment to the footpath below which proves Fred26's point that although they won't stop fare dodgers completely they ARE a deterrent.

Hilariously, on more than one occasion at Southend Vic, I saw people crawl under the luggage gate (through the luggage flap), thinking they were clever. The person following behind them knew better - that gate was/is more or less always unlocked - so they just pulled it open and walked through.
I don't know how strange it is, but at Southend Vic, the ticket office staff man(ned) the barriers. Or should I say, controlled them. It was perfectly ok to have them in the closed position without staff standing with them, because if someone got stuck in them, the ticket office could hit the plunger (so could the platform staff, but it wasn't their responsibility). Also, the ticket office there controls which way round the barriers face and which restrictions they have. I'm sure that situation isn't all that common.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Really? Do you think anyone would expect to get anywhere on east coast without getting checked? If they do then something is really wrong with thier checking!

I've been to Leeds several times without being checked.

Neither Guards nor barriers are fool-proof. Both need to work in tandem to be completely effiecient.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Thinking about it, I don't think I was checked at all between Kings Cross and Inverness last month, apart from the manual barrier at Kings Cross.

 

[Failed Unit]

If you can get from Leeds - London without getting checked then east coast need to improve revenue protection. The solution is simple get RPI joining at Peterborough and check all tickets. Much better than barriers! The gaurd is not responsible for revenue protection they are responsible for the train. That is my point barriers may help the Newark - Grantham dodgers but are totally wrong for Kings Cross. The manual checks are bad enough! Platform announced 5 mins before departure. Slowing down everyone = late train. You can hardly let the train leave when your "revenue protection" is the reason that passengers are not on board in the first place.

 

[dk1]

Once wittnessed some chav try to jump the gates at Victoria. He did make it but also bashed his head really badly. Ran off in agony. There is some justice .

 

[Failed Unit]

I saw someone at kings cross underground go through the luggage rack. Unfortunately they got a free ride.

 

[Fred26]

If you can get from Leeds - London without getting checked then east coast need to improve revenue protection. The solution is simple get RPI joining at Peterborough and check all tickets. Much better than barriers! The gaurd is not responsible for revenue protection they are responsible for the train. That is my point barriers may help the Newark - Grantham dodgers but are totally wrong for Kings Cross. The manual checks are bad enough! Platform announced 5 mins before departure. Slowing down everyone = late train. You can hardly let the train leave when your "revenue protection" is the reason that passengers are not on board in the first place.

I can't imagine things will stay like that once the Kings Cross referb is complete.

It doesn't really matter whether you have Guards or RPI's checking tickets. Unless they do the whole train after every stop, there will still be people without tickets. Working together with barriers and barrier staff they can massively reduce fraudulant travel - either on their own seem a bit half-arsed to me.

 

[Failed Unit]

Well another way I would look at it is how much revenue do east coast lose per year because if people travelling without tickets? Is this less than the cost of installing and maintaining barriers? I suspect it is so the should not bother. RPI have no excuse for not checking an entire train in 45 minutes! Barriers are ok for local routes but totally wrong for IC!

 

[Fred26]

Well another way I would look at it is how much revenue do east coast lose per year because if people travelling without tickets? Is this less than the cost of installing and maintaining barriers? I suspect it is so the should not bother. RPI have no excuse for not checking an entire train in 45 minutes! Barriers are ok for local routes but totally wrong for IC!

I completely disagree.

Anyway, if you install barriers then they are there for good. Surely it's a one-off payment, with the only extras being for engineer call-outs. Comparing the cost of barriers to revenue lost in a year is disingenuous - they're expensive at first, but once they're in, that's it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

RPI have no excuse for not checking an entire train in 45 minutes! Barriers are ok for local routes but totally wrong for IC!

I'll give you one; an RPI comes across a ticketless passenger. He doesn't want to buy one. They go back and forth, the RPI is only halfway through the train... whoops, here comes Wakefield!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Like this?

Yep, there was one I was thinking of, and Reading it is! (It is possible to avoid all the barriers at Reading by using the llifts.